Ancient Mars

reply to post by AlienCarnage


I mentioned arizona before, so even with earth atmosphere such conditions can occur.

My feeling that to verify life on Mars all you need is Math. If you have evenly spaced objects, each pattern of the sequence lowers the probability of nature doing it. If the pyramids on Mars match the Pledies star system, according to the Book Nasa's Dark Secrets by Hogland. What are the odds of that being natural? None.
If the pyramid system in Mexico Sun/Moon Pyramids and the Valley of the dead line up mathmatically with the Pledies star system, what are the odds of the Mars and Earth persons thinking exactly and executing the same pattern with Pyramids? Earth, Mars, Pledies all connected. It's all in the numbers, the numbers don't lie.
As for the NASA airbrushed photos, someone is desperately hiding the truth. Why? Control? Fear? Or do they have a private agenda they want to accomplish with out any public interference. People lie all the time, hardly no one has any integity anymore. Nations rise and fall, families rise and fall generation economically and educationally. Civilizations also rise and fall. Nature comes to claim it back. However the math is still there.
It all comes down to Math and Science. They don't lie.

reply to post by piotrburz


Yes you did talk about Arizona, and currently this is how it is there, in a time when the oceans start to dry up, there will be more moisture in the atmosphere across the planet in places there is barely any, this will also cause things to get worse because the moisture in the air will act as a magnify glass and cause the suns rays to do even more damage, not all water will disappear from the atmosphere, some may disappear beneath the land into caverns, which will then be sealed during the earthquakes and volcanoes erupting.

Once the water is removed from the face of the earth, and the land dries out, roots and trees rot, the soil will no longer be moist and held in place by roots, the sand from the ocean floor will become swept up in storms as well, this sand will be swept across the land covering everything over, even things that stuck above sand will be covered.

Like I said, you will have the occasional structure that may survive and even stick out of the sand, but it does not mean that it will be recognizable until an up close inspection is done.

The problem with so much of this is that people are still using old, out of date and out of focus images to make these statements or assumptions. There are so much better images to be found all the time, and evidence of "ancient Martian civilizations" tends to vanish when we get a better image.

The latest Mars images are awesome, and keep getting better. But because they're so much better than before, there are fewer and fewer images that suggest any kind of old civilization.

As a sociological study, I find it interesting that a lot of the most noted Mars anomaly sites don't even bother with the hundreds of fresh images that are available every month, preferring to stick to the old, blurry images that still leave a lot of wiggle room for interpretation.

The funny thing is, the supposedly evidence of artificiality is not just revealed by the higher-resolution pictures to be natural formations, it's also revealed to be common. The "tubes," for instance, are all over the place, as are "building foundations." There are so many of these features around that after a while it becomes ridiculous to consider all of them to be evidence of an ancient civilization. Then you get used to how these things look, and it becomes obvious that they're the result of some natural process.

Try it. Go to the HiRise Mars site and pick any image. There will probably be something in each image that will stick out and make you suspect it's artificial -- straight lines, right angles, etc. But it isn't. And neither is the old stuff. Check it out:MARS HiRise Site

But how much of our civilisation would be recognisable if the atmosphere was stripped from the planet?

We speculate Mars had a serious problem before the liquid water was ejected/dissipated from the planet, what would Earth look like if we encountered the same predicament??

Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
no one does scale though! pessers me orf that does!

According to this page the brighter object was some 4 metres away from the rover, so it's a small object.

The animation is made with images from the left and right panoramic cameras, that's one of the reasons for having two cameras, it gives us a 3D sense.

Edit to add the link from Exuberant1's post, without the quotation marks.
Spirit Metallic Sphere - Alien Anomalies

PS: I don't think that object is metallic, if it was it should look more like the piece from the rover and reflect more or less the same in all wavelengths.

Originally posted by 2weird2live2rare2die
maybe we should start leaving evidence of ourselves, maybe carving into rocks or placing rocks in geometric patterns.

It actually crossed my mind once that NASA could be scheming to leave some "evidence" there in order to get funding for further missions.

Originally posted by zorgon
Simple... the algorithm software on the Rovers that edits out any thing of interest is not perfect and it misses the small stuff. Already covered that and linked to that in numerous threads

I don't think anyone with any responsibility would accept that type of work from an automated system without having at least one person checking the images.

If that algorithm exists and has any practical use.

Had you looked further you will see I linked to ALL the images of the things people have called 'tubes' with all the source data.

There's a new(ish) photo from that area, from HiRISE, and although with too much noise it's easier to see all the features.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/c54d9716616878c5.png[/atsimg]
The above image is at around 4% zoom.

Seems to me this is a really good find. Now I have not yet had time to pull the originals to confirm this but since all the originals are linked at Skippers site, it won't take long and I am sure ArMaP will help

No problem.

reply to post by zorgon


Well, sorry you seem to think I was "baiting"....not intention, I assure you.

My mistake was in NOT referencing the exact image that I felt was posted in a way that somewhat misrepresented it....at least, the context could lead people astray. I see (after peering into its link info) that it IS described as a "painting" and is from the livingmoon site:

Originally posted by zorgon
You mean these?

Of course many will tell you they are merely sand dunes

NO, sarcasm aside, there likely aren't "many" who would call them "sand dunes"....a few maybe....., but there's often a bad nut in every can.

Like I've said earlier....being a big fan of Science Fiction and all, it sure is fun to speculate, imagine and otherwise fool around with ideas --- but it seems to be a disservice to some who may be a bit, ermmmm, impressionable (naive?) who may not realize that fiction isn't always fact.......

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by zorgon

 

Well, sorry you seem to think I was "baiting"....not intention, I assure you.

My mistake was in NOT referencing the exact image that I felt was posted in a way that somewhat misrepresented it....at least, the context could lead people astray. I see (after peering into its link info) that it IS described as a "painting" and is from the livingmoon site:

Originally posted by zorgon
You mean these?

Of course many will tell you they are merely sand dunes

NO, sarcasm aside, there likely aren't "many" who would call them "sand dunes"....a few maybe....., but there's often a bad nut in every can.

Like I've said earlier....being a big fan of Science Fiction and all, it sure is fun to speculate, imagine and otherwise fool around with ideas --- but it seems to be a disservice to some who may be a bit, ermmmm, impressionable (naive?) who may not realize that fiction isn't always fact.......

I think the signature at the bottom was a bit of a give away don't ya think

We don't need actually carve anything in rock, because we already have Mount Rushmore!

reply to post by ArMaP


Thanks for the link update..

Do you think the sphere maybe more brass/gold like rather than a silver/white reflectance?

Stands out even more in the mosaic.
NASA MOSAIC

2nd square from left ,top section.

reply to post by UKWO1Phot


No, I don't think it's reflective like metal, I just think it's a bright colour.

Originally posted by ArMaP
reply to post by watchZEITGEISTnow

 

Sorry, forgot about the source.

At 60 centimetres per pixel, that feature would be some 42 metres long.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/232c6c2b40383b2e.jpg[/atsimg]

I'm really starting to love how helpful you truly are. Thanks for that - you see now things make more sense to me (and other obviously), scale IS important! Maybe on a planet 10 times the size of Earth that had say a human existence - then it probably wouldn't matter as much (scale) due to the fact that most probably - structures would be 10 times the size, if those on the planet were also 10 times the size of Earth humans!

Thanks ArMaP

Originally posted by BIONICLE ALEX


Important: This is not that important but I will contribute for learning process.

Can you contribute some more and give us some help in identifying this photo?

Unlike most photos from Mars Anomaly Research this one doesn't have a photo ID.

Thanks in advance.

PS: when posting images use [‍img] or [‍atsimg], not both. You can also use the "preview" button to see how the post will look.

Originally posted by Blue Shift
Check it out:MARS HiRise Site

Dang nice pictures they have there... thanky kindly for that linky



I especially like the tracks Mike Singh found in one of the images there. Takes a lot of work ya know to find stuff in those big pictures... but we do

Here is the working page from HiRise...
hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu...

original full size clip from HiRise

hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu...

original web image from HiRise See the tracks yet? No? Hmmmm



original clip... See em now?



Enhanced and annotated..



Well naturally I will expect the usual 'rocks is rocks' crowd to insist that these are made by rolling rocks, despite the odd pattern... but that's okay. Doesn't matter really what you believe... fact is WE are the ones finding the cool 'anomalies' for you arm chair critics to debunk

Originally posted by ArMaP
I don't think anyone with any responsibility would accept that type of work from an automated system without having at least one person checking the images.

If that algorithm exists and has any practical use.

The algorithms exist... from Sandia Labs... I posted all that way back in the Clementine thread when we were looking to view those Cubit files .cub. Apparently the algorithms have a code so you can look at them without the cover. I will find the links to the scientists report from Sandia labs. It was noted that even possessing those algorithyms by unauthorized users was illegal

I also had a link to the college that uploaded the latest set to the Rovers, before Spirit broke down

I thought I had it all on a page already but dang it sometimes I post it and don't copy it to my site first.

Need a sexatary real bad

Well I'll be... Seems NASA has the data At least the declassified ones

Dr. Andrew E. Johnson graduated with Highest Distinction from the University of Kansas in 1991 with a BS in Engineering Physics and a BS in Mathematics. In 1997, he received his Ph.D. from the Robotics Institute at Carnegie Mellon University where he developed the spin-image surface signature for object recognition and surface matching. Currently, he is a Principal Member of Technical Staff at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory where he is developing image-based techniques for autonomous navigation and mapping during descent to planets moons, comets and asteroids. At JPL, Dr. Johnson has worked on technology development tasks as well as flight projects. For the Mars Exploration Rover Project, Dr. Johnson was the lead algorithm developer for the Descent Image Motion Estimation Subsystem (DIMES), the first autonomous machine vision system used during planetary landing. Following the successful development and execution of DIMES, he is now moving back to the development of machine vision systems for landing hazard avoidance, pin-point landing and rover navigation. Part of this work includes a collaboration with the University of Southern California and the University of Minnesota in the area of vision guided safe and precise landing for autonomous helicopters. In 2003, Dr. Johnson was awarded the JPL Lew Allen Award for Excellence for his "groundbreaking contributions in the area of machine vision algorithms for safe and precise landing."

www-robotics.jpl.nasa.gov...

Actually found a lot of goodies... explaining how the algorithms are used to teach space craft and Rovers recognition.... easy enough then to program it to leave out certain info

Abstract—Space tugs must be able to search for and identify inert non-communicative targets, whose ephemeris is only known approximately. The goal of this article is to evaluate the efciency of three possible two-dimensional search strategies in the context of autonomous rendezvous in space. As part of a broader Space Tug project, a number of modeling challenges were addressed to validate the experimental results.

The author models the autonomous process in which an agent, a robot or a software algorithm searching for information in a computer database, searches the space around its current location for desired information. The search area is divided in a set of locations (x, y), dened in Cartesian coordinates. Associated with each location is a probability q(x, y) representing the likelihood of nding the information wanted at this location. Assuming the environment is static, the space can thus be described as a probability space. The agent, which in the context of this project is the tug, always moves in the direction where the probability q(x, y) is the greatest. Once the agent moves to the new location - from (x0, y0) to (xnew, ynew) -, the probability q(xnew, ynew) of nding information at the new point is updated depending on what was found.

PREVIOUS WORK We looked at several references devoted to Mars rovers due to the similar autonomy and energy requirements and constraints of their missions.

www.mit.edu...

Gives you the idea... this paper is about object recognition algorithms for space tugs, but these are the same people (Cambridge College) that did the Rovers) I will gather it all up and stick it on a page. But the algorithms that can discriminate certainly do exist

SPACE TUGS?

Well Zorgon, the top curved track is definitely a rock no?? Seeing as it's at the end of the track.

The other? Well....

Maybe some kind of vehicle dislodged the rock whilst making the journey across, making the tracks

Such an unknown world we live in..

Originally posted by weedwhacker
NO, sarcasm aside, there likely aren't "many" who would call them "sand dunes"....a few maybe....., but there's often a bad nut in every can.

Well see Wacky... that is my point... no matter how hard you try to link stuff to show people there are always some that will focus on one thing that they can pounce on and usually end up derailing threads. Like that painting has been posted 3 times now

But a simple skim over my webpage will show that I considered the sand dune hypothesis... right on the first page of those "Tubes" I posted



Comments:
The photo above shows sand dunes in a narrow, steep sided gully on Earth. This image was taken by Google Earth. They bear a striking resemblance tosome of the "tubes"on Mars. Below is the same image in color . - Zorgon
www.thelivingmoon.com...

So you keep saying people need to RESEARCH instead of speculate, but you yourself don't even take the time to LOOK at what your trying to debunk.... a habit I find prevalent in many skeptics

I even compared them to Crinoids... now wouldn't THAT be cool?

"The Giant Crinoids of Barsoom"

Crinoid fossil


I reserve the movie rights

More from Mars





As to my methods of posting... Seems most here enjoy my style

reply to post by zorgon


I think I have posted some animations made with these images before, but it's easier to make new animations than look for the old.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/ba183676d96d2f22.gif[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/a1daba0ff58eae42.gif[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/03fdde435f140f56.gif[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/11285e44a13a0747.gif[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/a238f42168c09827.gif[/atsimg]

We should always remember that we are looking at a 3D scene, not only with height and width but also with depth. With all of the above images we can see that the rover was on a slight elevation, with another elevation in the background and a small "valley" between the two.

We must also remember that the rovers move (or moved), so when the rover moves some centimetres to the left or the right things will change positions slightly.