I'm not religious at all but I can tell you there is no such thing as absolute irrefutable proof to a person who is religious.
Besides, even you could prove this and even if they believed you there's still doomsday cults, and supremacists, and lord knows whoever out there
living with their bizarre beliefs like those nuts who cut their balls off to ride a comet in the 90's.
Spend your entire life disproving them all beyond any doubt and you'll have wasted your entire life.
[edit on 3-9-2010 by thisguyrighthere]
So, What happens to you if/when religion is proven false?, page 2
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reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 12:45 PM by 547000
Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
Originally posted by 547000
Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
Originally posted by 547000
Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
Originally posted by 547000
I don't know how accurate the OT was, but I know some of the NT is true. If the Crucifixion is said to be false, I would be very skeptical indeed, because my own experience tells me otherwise. If it were proven without doubt, I would probably just believe in God as a universal energy. If it was proven there is no God or afterlife I would just be depressed and nihilistic for my remaining time here.
What in the NT is true? You seem to not to know what the so called OT and the so called NT are.
www.messiahtruth.com...
The crucifixion is true, and the holy spirit is true. I can't prove it despite knowing it.
I don't believe in Jesus and I doubt he ever existed. But you need to understand more of the OT from Judaism perspective.
Believe me, I thought all religions were BS, but one day I opened my mind to the idea there is a God, not bending it one way or another, and asked Him, if He was real, to guide me and give me proof. Direct experience trumps theory. You can theorize about God's existence or non-existence all you want, but when you've asked for subjective proof and received it you can only try to deceive yourself. You still need some degree of faith, which knowledge helps you keep.
What is faith then? Just another word or a expression?
www.messiahtruth.com...
Read this link and tell me what do you think of it.
I read it halfway and closed it. If you want to be a skeptic about anythings it's possible. But I rely on my knowledge of God to keep the faith, even when it's hard. You can say, "I believe in God," and in your heart not believe or find it burdensome. Or you can actually know there is a God, and that fuels you to resist temptation to sin. I know Jesus died for all sins, but we are perfected by making avoiding sin our second nature. We aren't perfect, but by following the new commandments of God we are perfected slowly.
Of course, this is all nonsense to nonbelievers, as it was to me. But I am not claiming to prove God.
reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 12:46 PM by Whyhi
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
This is not insulting, it's the truth. Most religious people will not even listen to science, reason, evidence, anything, this is a fact. Someone being raised in a religious environment is being conditioned by religion, this is also a fact, unless of course kids are able to refute creationism logic and provide evidence at the age of 7. They will carry on and believe their fairy tale, using a mystical cloud pixie as an example is no different than saying you believe in mystical cloud angels.
No, skeptics have open minds, but as a skeptic, you also demand evidence for the assertions being made. Unless you can tell me how being closed minded on something as ridiculous as religious logic is a bad thing, be my guest. Or you can just come back with some condescending "Well I can't help you" line and act like you're the one being offended.
But really, what is this "other perspective"? Evolution isn't real? God created the big bang in a universe that didn't yet exist in a time where there was no time using materials that didn't exist yet to make other materials that he just thought would be nice?
Please, I'm all ears
[edit on 3-9-2010 by Whyhi]
I imagine most folk wouldn't believe no matter what evidence was presented to them against religion as they have been indoctrinated so much into believing on blind faith they will utilise that blind faith to carry on believing in the mystical cloud pixies!
This is not insulting, it's the truth. Most religious people will not even listen to science, reason, evidence, anything, this is a fact. Someone being raised in a religious environment is being conditioned by religion, this is also a fact, unless of course kids are able to refute creationism logic and provide evidence at the age of 7. They will carry on and believe their fairy tale, using a mystical cloud pixie as an example is no different than saying you believe in mystical cloud angels.
you have made up your mind and closed it to any other perspective.
No, skeptics have open minds, but as a skeptic, you also demand evidence for the assertions being made. Unless you can tell me how being closed minded on something as ridiculous as religious logic is a bad thing, be my guest. Or you can just come back with some condescending "Well I can't help you" line and act like you're the one being offended.
But really, what is this "other perspective"? Evolution isn't real? God created the big bang in a universe that didn't yet exist in a time where there was no time using materials that didn't exist yet to make other materials that he just thought would be nice?
Please, I'm all ears
[edit on 3-9-2010 by Whyhi]
reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 12:46 PM by Ophiuchus 13
reply to post by Romantic_Rebel
It is believing in what 1 cannot see sorta like believing that the air you breath is really air at all even though you cannot see it or that dark matter or dark space is real or for that that even black holes are real but cannot see any with your naked technological eyes like scopes and microscopes yes. Just as you will be able to see with your spiritual eye all that is truelly going on.
Faith is the LORDS way of sorting out his ripe fruits from the unripen or damaged fruits. His ripen fruits feel his presence and can even translate his effects into their everyday lives. The Alpha feels no need to prove anythig as that is the way of the BEAST to controll his followers.
EX. If a fleet of visable space craft shows up tonight then many of mankind will drop what they were taught about Alpha from different directions and religions and go with what they see. The crazy thing is SATAN has designed ways to make you see in order to trick you again. And in the end you will have a great division, those who see and believe what they see is real and those who believe in what they sense is real even without an immediate visual for he shall reveal himself eventually after all the trickery has been eliminated. SO friends I would remember that visuals can controll the masses and can be minipulated (ITS CALLED MAJIKZ). There is only 1 ALPHA and when he shows his powers the world as you know it wont be as it is this is why the time is given before he begins to physically interact. Rolling back the scrolls of space doesnt seem like something that will go back to the normal way of life so remember his effects are for good and once brought upon all there is no turning back. Its just sad how many will fall for what they think they see and wont even consider who is delivering the sick visuals to guide them towards another evil path.. SOme Ancients seen beings in clouds HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE THEM TODAY -ALIEN SPACECRAFT
547000 GOOD JOB
[edit on 9/3/10 by Ophiuchus 13]
It is believing in what 1 cannot see sorta like believing that the air you breath is really air at all even though you cannot see it or that dark matter or dark space is real or for that that even black holes are real but cannot see any with your naked technological eyes like scopes and microscopes yes. Just as you will be able to see with your spiritual eye all that is truelly going on.
Faith is the LORDS way of sorting out his ripe fruits from the unripen or damaged fruits. His ripen fruits feel his presence and can even translate his effects into their everyday lives. The Alpha feels no need to prove anythig as that is the way of the BEAST to controll his followers.
EX. If a fleet of visable space craft shows up tonight then many of mankind will drop what they were taught about Alpha from different directions and religions and go with what they see. The crazy thing is SATAN has designed ways to make you see in order to trick you again. And in the end you will have a great division, those who see and believe what they see is real and those who believe in what they sense is real even without an immediate visual for he shall reveal himself eventually after all the trickery has been eliminated. SO friends I would remember that visuals can controll the masses and can be minipulated (ITS CALLED MAJIKZ). There is only 1 ALPHA and when he shows his powers the world as you know it wont be as it is this is why the time is given before he begins to physically interact. Rolling back the scrolls of space doesnt seem like something that will go back to the normal way of life so remember his effects are for good and once brought upon all there is no turning back. Its just sad how many will fall for what they think they see and wont even consider who is delivering the sick visuals to guide them towards another evil path.. SOme Ancients seen beings in clouds HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE THEM TODAY -ALIEN SPACECRAFT
547000 GOOD JOB
[edit on 9/3/10 by Ophiuchus 13]
reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 12:49 PM by Romantic_Rebel
Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
reply to post by Romantic_Rebel
It is believing in what 1 cannot see sorta like believing that the air you breath is really air at all even though you cannot see it or that dark matter or dark space is real or for that that even black holes are real but cannot see any with your naked technological eyes like scopes and microscopes yes. Just as you will be able to see with your spiritual eye all that is truelly going on.
Faith is the LORDS way of sorting out his ripe fruits from the unripen or damaged fruits. His ripen fruits feel his presence and can even translate his effects into their everyday lives. The Alpha feels no need to prove anythig as that is the way of the BEAST to controll his followers.
EX. If a fleet of visable space craft shows up tonight then many of mankind will drop what they were taught about Alpha from different directions and religions and go with what they see. The crazy thing is SATAN has designed ways to make you see in order to trick you again. And in the end you will have a great division, those who see and believe what they see is real and those who believe in what they sense is real even without an immediate visual for he shall reveal himself eventually after all the trickery has been eliminated. SO friends I would remember that visuals can controll the masses and can be minipulated (ITS CALLED MAJIKZ). There is only 1 ALPHA and when he shows his powers the world as you know it wont be as it is this is why the time is given before he begins to physically interact. Rolling back the scrolls of space doesnt seem like something that will go back to the normal way of life so remember his effects are for good and once brought upon all there is no turning back. Its just sad how many will fall for what they think they see and wont even consider who is delivering the sick visuals to guide them towards another evil path.. SOme Ancients seen beings in clouds HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE THEM TODAY -ALIEN SPACECRAFT
547000 GOOD JOB
[edit on 9/3/10 by Ophiuchus 13]
Wow another person who does not know about the Talmud and the so called NT.
www.messiahtruth.com...
www.messiahtruth.com...
I am just shocked to see how many people are follow faith blindly.
reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 12:54 PM by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by Whyhi
I would actually just like to find out what makes you so combative about my personal beliefs?
You are making plenty of assumptions on what I believe, since I have stated nothing besides I have faith in God...from there you jumped to conclusions and made assumptions about me.
And yet...I am the illogical one
Your tactic isn't any different than the original person who attempted an insult. You try to insult...try to create an angry response and turn the discussion into science vs religion. You try to create an environment where you want to frame yourself as an "intellectual" and anyone that believes in God as a backwards illogical fool.
But sorry...I learned long ago to ignore that...and to just ask the individual WHY they feel the need to do this.
So why do you...why do you attempt to make assumptions about me and attempt to through around words that you think may insult me???
What is lacking in yourself that you would rather try to insult than discuss this in a civil way???
I would actually just like to find out what makes you so combative about my personal beliefs?
You are making plenty of assumptions on what I believe, since I have stated nothing besides I have faith in God...from there you jumped to conclusions and made assumptions about me.
And yet...I am the illogical one
Your tactic isn't any different than the original person who attempted an insult. You try to insult...try to create an angry response and turn the discussion into science vs religion. You try to create an environment where you want to frame yourself as an "intellectual" and anyone that believes in God as a backwards illogical fool.
But sorry...I learned long ago to ignore that...and to just ask the individual WHY they feel the need to do this.
So why do you...why do you attempt to make assumptions about me and attempt to through around words that you think may insult me???
What is lacking in yourself that you would rather try to insult than discuss this in a civil way???
reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 12:55 PM by okbmd
reply to post by SaturnFX
I suspect that most 'religious' folks will react the same way they always have ...
They will deny the validity of the irrefutable proof .
They will then use their religious 'book' to prove that your proof is invalid .
You will be stoned , quartered , and burned at the stake for showing them this proof .
You will be forever ex-communicated and branded a heretic .
Wars will continue to be waged in the name of 'god' .
Fingers in the ears will continue to accompany the la-la-la song .
And , religious leaders will continue to scam billions from their flock , continue to have sex with prostitutes while condemning whores and harlots , continue to practice homosexuality while condemning to hell others who do the same , and ... Priests will continue to violate helpless children .
All while the religious folk wait on a saviour to return to correct the evils that they could have corrected themselves if they had grown some backbone and guts .
In other words , it won't change anything .
I suspect that most 'religious' folks will react the same way they always have ...
They will deny the validity of the irrefutable proof .
They will then use their religious 'book' to prove that your proof is invalid .
You will be stoned , quartered , and burned at the stake for showing them this proof .
You will be forever ex-communicated and branded a heretic .
Wars will continue to be waged in the name of 'god' .
Fingers in the ears will continue to accompany the la-la-la song .
And , religious leaders will continue to scam billions from their flock , continue to have sex with prostitutes while condemning whores and harlots , continue to practice homosexuality while condemning to hell others who do the same , and ... Priests will continue to violate helpless children .
All while the religious folk wait on a saviour to return to correct the evils that they could have corrected themselves if they had grown some backbone and guts .
In other words , it won't change anything .
reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 01:12 PM by Ophiuchus 13
Originally posted by okbmd
reply to post by SaturnFX
They will deny the validity of the irrefutable proof .
How is this proof obtained and from what or who? Since we are going there.
Waits for the BEST ANSWER TO SEE AND SHOW WHAT YOU ALL WHO DONT POSSESS FAITH HAVE TO GO BY--HOW IS IT PROVEN OTHERWISE AND BY WHO? OR WILL THE FAITHLESS WITHER AWAY FROM THIS POINT ON IN THE THREAD OR TRY THEIR BEST TO DECEIVE THE WHO GAVE THEM FINGERS TO TYPE. SO HOW???
BOOKS MABEY
ANCIENT TEXT MABEY MABEY YOU GOT CONNECTS WITH MAYTRIA HOW IF MANY DONT MIND CAN IT BE DISPROVED W/O THE USE OF A DEMON LEADING THE WAY. [edit on 9/3/10 by Ophiuchus 13]
[edit on 9/3/10 by Ophiuchus 13]
reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 01:13 PM by okbmd
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13
Tsk tsk , did I touch a nerve ? Is that why you took my post so personal ?
The OP presented a hypothetical scenario , to which I responded .
I'm not here to debate the utter stupidity and ignorance of religion with you so , don't get your shorts in a bunch .
Tsk tsk , did I touch a nerve ? Is that why you took my post so personal ?
The OP presented a hypothetical scenario , to which I responded .
I'm not here to debate the utter stupidity and ignorance of religion with you so , don't get your shorts in a bunch .
reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 01:14 PM by Ophiuchus 13
reply to post by okbmd
NO answer to back you
thanks I think you caught feelings, um just sayen how and you didnt answer so.....
NO answer to back you
thanks I think you caught feelings, um just sayen how and you didnt answer so.....
reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 01:15 PM by Romantic_Rebel
Originally posted by okbmd
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13
Tsk tsk , did I touch a nerve ? Is that why you took my post so personal ?
The OP presented a hypothetical scenario , to which I responded .
I'm not here to debate the utter stupidity and ignorance of religion with you so , don't get your shorts in a bunch .
Opiuchus13 does not know what he is saying. He is just repeating what numerous of Christian preachers have said in the past.
www.messiahtruth.com...
reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 01:17 PM by Ophiuchus 13
reply to post by Romantic_Rebel
No answer so who backs you an invisible demon?
I ask how is this disproved and no answer. And we are bad for having faith in an unseen CREATOR.
No answer so who backs you an invisible demon?
I ask how is this disproved and no answer. And we are bad for having faith in an unseen CREATOR.
reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 01:18 PM by Ophiuchus 13
Originally posted by okbmd
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13
Lots of animals have fingers .
Not all of them type .
Good answer, I guess. Feelings caught for sure is me blades cutting huh???
STILL NO ANSWER WHO GOT YOUR BACKS
WITHERING WITHRING AS MOST MINION UNKNOWNS DO. GET TO THE LAMB!
[edit on 9/3/10 by Ophiuchus 13]
reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 01:20 PM by Romantic_Rebel
Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
reply to post by Romantic_Rebel
No answer so who backs you an invisible demon?
I ask how is this disproved and no answer. And we are bad for having faith in an unseen CREATOR.
You want to know backs me? Hashem! Hashem is true while Jesus is no where to be found. You need to realize What G-D and Jesus are. G-D is not Jesus and Jesus neither the Messiah or G-D. I laugh how you claim that I'm being led by an invisible demon but you worship an idol.
www.messiahtruth.com...
www.messiahtruth.com...
[edit on 3-9-2010 by Romantic_Rebel]
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