Christian terrorism.

OK,

Let's put this in perspective....

How many people have been killed to date by these anti-abortion terrorists were comparing?

Know the answer?

By the press you have seen on this subject you would think the body count is in the hundreds.. and happens often.

The number over the last 30-40 years you ask....

8


not 800..... 8.

[edit on 18-8-2010 by infolurker]

Terrorism does not necessarily equate to killing. Terrorists groups don't become terrorists group at the moment of a kill.

A government, for example, can terrorize people simply with threats or by scaring them. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case here, with Christian terrorist groups, and don't know what they do among themselves, but the definition is far broader than just killing, although once they do have a kill under their belt they become more terrifying.

The word terror itself is from the Latin for "to frighten."

"Terrorism has been practiced by a broad array of political organizations for furthering their objectives. It has been practiced by both right-wing and left-wing political parties, nationalistic groups, religious groups, revolutionaries, and ruling governments." "Terrorism". Encyclopædia Britannica. p. 3. www.britannica.com... Retrieved 2006-08-11.

reply to post by Ex_MislTech

The main reason Islam get a lot of focus is the potential for WW3,
the 2 current wars, 9-11, the televised beheadings, killing
Theo van Gough in the street in broad daylight, burning 100's
of buses in France, riots over cartoons depicting Mr. M. and other events...

It is not Islam who will push the button first. Maybe... A country with a mostly Muslim population will. ( Which I do not think will happen )

The question stays as it is.

Why are we focused on their behavior and what could make them act like that ?



On topic

I get the idea that it is from no apparent reason except their religion from some of you. I agree that would really be the best answer to live with.

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by Ex_MislTech

 

It is not Islam who will push the button first. Maybe... A country with a mostly Muslim population will. ( Which I do not think will happen )

The question stays as it is.

Why are we focused on their behavior and what could make them act like that ?

Does this count as Muslim terrorist too?
www.globalresearch.ca...

Oh my.. Fake Al-Qaeda?
whatreallyhappened.com...

Jewish Fake Al-Qaeda? Interesting..
www.assatashakur.org...

Combine CIA+Mossad+M15 Fake Al-Qaeda?
ahmedismailibrahim.wordpress.com...

Does anyone bother to research this? I guess not. It far too easy to blame Muslim to cover up political agenda.

About 1.5 million Vietnamese death during Vietnam War and now 100,000 Iraqi civilian violent death. Does this count as Muslim terrorism too?

I'm done with explanation. The western can think whatever they want to choose as long as they don't invade my country and kill my children. Because if that's happen, it doesn't matter anymore if I'm a Christian or a Muslim or Hindu or Buddist or even an Atheist. I'll be sure to snipe/terrorize every single western invader I can find. That's the truth.


[edit on 18-8-2010 by EasternShadow]

I think what most are failing to see is Islam is not just a religion, it is intertwined into the political culture in Muslim lead countries. It is the reason the Shiites and Sunni's are fighting and why there will never be peace in the Middle East.
They have fought these wars for over 2,000 years. While they claim to be fighting for Islam they are fighting for power.

In the West this argument will not work. Yes, there are Christian fanatic terrorists, but that fanaticism is not melded into the political culture of our country. I am not talking about Conservatives vs. liberals, I am talking about our leaders who would go into another country and kill for the sake of Christ alone on a continuous basis. It hasn't happened and it won't.

Here is a look at the religion of Islam, decide for yourself what it is all about.

Is Islam a peace loving religion? By Bassam Khoury

answering-islam.org...

Here is another article which is a Christian Muslim dialogue.

The impossibility of the revelation of the Qu r’an

www.answering-islam.org...

Thanks,
Pax

Originally posted by B3lz3buth
reply to post by chuber

 

or a child with know birth defect who can never have a normal life, putting a enormous amount of financial and sentimental pressure on parents and relative? in an already full capacity over populated world ?

About five or six months into my mother's pregnancy with me, she started to hemorrhage badly. By the time they got her to the hospital she had lost ALOT of blood. They kept her for a few days and the day she was to leave she started again.
The doctors came in and told my mother and father that they could not find my heart beat.
They told her that they needed to do a DNC and scheduled it for the next day.
Before the procedure a nurse checked for my heart beat once more and found a tiny beat.
Once again the doctors came in and told my mom that she should abort me. And......
.That I would be a burden to the rest of my family.
.That I would only be a vegetable. Never walk or talk.
.That she already had three boys so why put them through the ordeal of having a child that would take up so much of her time.
.They told her to consider the stress it would put on them finacialy.
Well in the end (as you can see) she told the doctors that she would not have the abortion.
She carried me full term and I was the biggest baby out of the four boys she had and was healthy in every way.
DOCTORS AND SCIENCE DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING.
My middle child had problems with his kidneys when he was born. He only had two of the three cords in his umbliblical cord. The one that was missing helped develop the kidneys in the womb.
Ultra sounds showed that his kidneys (normally shaped like a kidney bean) were actually pear shaped.
The host of problems they listed for my wife and I brought us to our knees for our son.
A few weeks later they thought they had found another problem and ran another ultra sound. This one showed two perfectly formed kidneys and no other problems to speak of.
DOCTORS AND SCIENCE CAN NOT EXPLAIN EVERYTHING.
I believe in God.
Does that make me a terrorist?
As I said before these people are crazy, with or with out their religion.


[edit on 18-8-2010 by Quadrivium]

[edit on 18-8-2010 by Quadrivium]

this site you can only find HATERS

thats why a few people flagged this thread

they dont want to admit their own beliefs can be corrupted

its easy to talk about someone else's beliefs ... right?

haters

I dont belief any violent person who espouses a belief system should be honored by being called by its name. No warriors who kill innocents, no terrorists who kill innocents, no criminals who kill innocents should ever be called by a religions name, because they dishonor the meaning behind religion in the first place by spilling blood. When they do that in the name of religion, its called FALSE FLAG ATTACKS>

Oops. Wrong thread. I read the title to mean that Christians are the victims of terrorists. Not the terrorists themselves.

NVM.

Non Secular Terrorism:

The Weather Underground

Weatherman, known colloquially as the Weathermen and later the Weather Underground Organization (abbreviated WUO), was an American radical left organization. It originated in 1969 as a faction of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS)[2] composed for the most part of the national office leadership of SDS and their supporters. Their goal was to create a clandestine revolutionary party for the violent overthrow of the US government and the establishment of a dictatorship of the proletariat.

List of Weatherman Actions

Notes on Prairie Fire by William lAyers

Excerpt from Prairie Fire, by William Ayers

Earth Liberation Front

The Earth Liberation Front (ELF), also known as "Elves" or "The Elves", is the collective name for autonomous individuals or covert cells who, according to the ELF Press Office, use "economic sabotage and guerrilla warfare to stop the exploitation and destruction of the environment".

ELF's own website featuring a brief history of eco terrorism:

Various N.Y. Times articles about ELF

The Revolutionary Catechism by Sergey Nechayev.

Who was Sergey Nechayev?

Sergey Gennadiyevich Nechayev (also Sergei Nechaev, Сергей Геннадиевич Нечаев), born October 2, 1847, died either November 21 or December 3, 1882) was a Russian revolutionary associated with the Nihilist movement and known for his single-minded pursuit of revolution by any means necessary, including political violence.

Nordonaya Volya

Narodnaya Volya (Народная Воля in Russian, known as People’s Will in English) was a Russian terrorist organization, best known for the successful assassination of Tsar Alexander II of Russia. It created a centralized, well disguised, and most significant organization in a time of diverse liberation movements in Russia. Narodnaya Volya was led by its Executive Committee: Alexander Mikhailov, Aleksandr Kvyatkovsky, Andrei Zhelyabov, Sophia Perovskaya, Vera Figner, Nikolai Morozov, Mikhail Frolenko, Lev Tikhomirov, Alexander Barannikov, Anna Yakimova, Maria Oshanina and others.

Red Army Faction

The Red Army Faction (German: Rote Armee Fraktion), shortened to RAF and in its early stages commonly known as Baader-Meinhof Group, was one of post–World War II Germany's most violent and prominent left wing groups. The RAF described itself as a communist and anti-imperialist "urban guerrilla" group engaged in armed resistance against what they deemed to be a fascist state. The RAF was founded in 1970 by Andreas Baader, Gudrun Ensslin, Horst Mahler, and Ulrike Meinhof.

Red Brigades

Formed in 1970, the Red Brigades sought to create a revolutionary state through armed struggle and to extract Italy from the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation. Their boldest move took place in 1978, when the second groups of the BR, headed by Mario Moretti, kidnapped the former Christian Democrat Prime Minister Aldo Moro killing five men of his entourage and subsequently murdered him 54 days later.

Revolutionary Struggle

Revolutionary Struggle (Greek: Επαναστατικός Αγώνας, Epanastatikos Agonas — EA) is a Greek revolutionary group known for its attacks on Greek government buildings and the American embassy in Athens. It is designated as a terrorist group by the Greek government.

The Shining Path

Widely condemned for its brutality, including violence deployed against peasants, trade union organizers, popularly elected officials and the general civilian population, the Shining Path is regarded by Peru as a terrorist organization. The group is on the U.S. Department of State's list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations, and the European Union and Canada likewise regard them as a terrorist organization and prohibit providing funding or other financial support.

Just a few well known non secular terrorist groups.

Evidences of Christian Terrorism:
1. Evangelist Minister Arrested For Arson
www.wkrg.com...
2. Thirteen Years of Killings in Tripura by the Christian NLFT
www.stephen-knapp.com...
3. Massacres of Sabra, Shatila and Janin

Later, standing near a small open field, which is actually a mass grave where several hundred victims of the massacre are buried, I contemplated a long, hand-lettered banner which read "The Arabic people will not forget the American support to the Nazi Sharon in his massacres in Sabra, Shatila and Janin (sic)." Squeezing through the dank, miserable alleyways, which were depressingly unchanged from the way they looked twenty years ago, I stopped before a crude, black-and-white poster of a gorilla -- not to be confused with a guerrilla -- cradling a baby gorilla in its arms. Ariel Sharon's face was superimposed on the mother gorilla's body while the baby had -- you guessed it -- the face of George W. Bush. (Finding such a poster in the refugee camps may not seem surprising, but later I was somewhat started to see the same poster prominently displayed near the principal's office in an Anglican school in Amman.)

by Peggy Thomson

www.counterpunch.org...
4. Eric Robert Rudolph
en.wikipedia.org...
5. Spain Car Bombing
edition.cnn.com...
6. Omagh Bombing
en.wikipedia.org...
news.bbc.co.uk...
www.cnn.com...
www.guardian.co.uk...
7. Birmingham Church Bombing
www.usatoday.com...
8. Medelin Cafe Bombing
archives.cnn.com...
9. The Preacher who burn Women
allafrica.com...
10. Srebrenica Massacre
en.wikipedia.org...
11. Bloody Friday
en.wikipedia.org...(1972)
12. Ugandan rebels murder, rape, mutilate, displace thousands in DR Congo, Sudan
www.modernghana.com...
13. Men jailed for taxi driver murder
news.bbc.co.uk...
14. Christians Turn on Muslims In Nigeria; More Than 30 Die
www.washingtonpost.com...
15. and more...

Google the net with open mind and you will find more. I'll leave it to you to think and decide.


[edit on 18-8-2010 by EasternShadow]

Originally posted by trutherman
I dont belief any violent person who espouses a belief system should be honored by being called by its name. No warriors who kill innocents, no terrorists who kill innocents, no criminals who kill innocents should ever be called by a religions name, because they dishonor the meaning behind religion in the first place by spilling blood. When they do that in the name of religion, its called FALSE FLAG ATTACKS>

I totality agree
the problem is that most people on this board are either ignorant or haters, since most threads about hating on Muslims or any other group are full of flags

Current Ku Klux Klan organisations
1. Imperial Klans of America

The Imperial Klans of America, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan is a white supremacist organization styled after the original Ku Klux Klan (KKK). In 2008, it was reported that the IKA had the second largest KKK membership.[1]
The IKA claims to be the sixth era of the Ku Klux Klan headed by Ron Edwards. Members of the 6th era, as previous eras, claim constitutional rights as part of the "Unorganized Militia". The IKA claims to stand upon Supreme Court decisions in favor of previous Klans.[2] They are headquartered near Dawson Springs, Kentucky and claim external Imperial Klan offices in Australia, Canada, England, Scotland, South Africa, South America, and throughout Europe.
In 2001, the IKA's annual "NordicFest" peaked with more than 300 people attending the event.[3] The IKA was featured on National Geographic's "Inside American Terror" in 2008 and The History Channel's Gangland in 2009.[4]

en.wikipedia.org...

2. Knights of the White Camelia

The Knights of the White Camellia was a secret group opposing the carpetbaggers in the U.S. Southern states during the Reconstruction era and beyond. Like most of such groups, it was founded by a Confederate veteran, as veterans represented most of southern white men. Col. Alcibiades DeBlanc founded the group on 22 May 1867 in Franklin, Louisiana. Chapters existed primarily in the southern part of the Deep South. It was similar to and associated with the Ku Klux Klan (KKK), as it supported white supremacy and was opposed to Republican government.

en.wikipedia.org...

Life Goes Inside Today KKK
www.life.com...
Ku Klux Klan 2010 rally in South Georgia
www.globaldashboard.org...



[edit on 18-8-2010 by EasternShadow]

reply to post by EasternShadow


Google non secular terrorism and take note how Google insists on linking to sites that deal only with secular terrorism.

Indeed, the very first link is to an article titled Secular Terrorism. The next link provides an article from Wikipedia on religious terrorism, the third link is to answers.yahoo.com, which asks the question what is the difference between secular and religious terrorism, which is either a loaded question, or an ignorant one. Interestingly, the blurb featured on the Google page states:

Religious terrorism = Common form of terrorism.

Which can not be readily found in the answer to the question featured. The fourth link to the Google page using the key words non secular terrorism is to an article titled India's Secular Terrorism

The fifth link from a site called "markettruth.com" features the same article. The sixth link is a pdf article, again about secular terrorism, and it is only on the seventh link where finally an article can be found discussing non secular terrorism, that link can be found here. The remaining three links feature two more that either list, or speak to both secular and non secular terrorist groups, those being the eight and tenth links and the ninth link is a message board.

All in all, if one wants to keep an open mind, it appears that Google has its own opinions on what that open mind should be looking at, and it is far less non secular terrorist groups than secular ones. Google non religious terrorism and the results are roughly the same, with six articles linked about religious terrorism. Of the remaining four only one actually deals with non religious forms of terrorism. The other three are one from Wikipedia on terrorism in general, (apparently Wikipedia that certainly does feature an article on religious terrorism is unwilling to classify non religious terrorism as such), another loaded question from ask.yahoo.ocm, and the thinkers.net message board with the same question and answers found on the non secular Google page.

If one wants to keep an open mind about non secular terrorist groups, then one must necessarily know the names of those non secular terrorist groups if they hope to "keep an open mind" while using Google.

Nigerian Christian?Mulsim Conflict

There's also the Bosnian conflict from the mid 90's where thousands of muslims were systematically rounded up and put to death by christians.

How soon people forget when their pet religion, at least on the local level, advocates violence for their beliefs.

What is actually happening in the Middle East is a conflict that has been going on for centuries. The shia and sunni muslims have been killing eachother over a minor difference in worship and they see the west as supporting one side or another in this war. This is why we get attacked, not because we have troops there, or people who have helped the region become global powers through oil or that we have imported "western culture" in the form of basic human rights, freedom of religion or basic hygiene and medical practices.

At one time in the past, the most scientifically advanced people in the western world were those in the middle east. Scientists, scholars and doctors advanced their trade in that region far beyond their counterparts in Europe, mainly because of an atmosphere that fostered scientific inquiry instead of stunting it as was happening in Europe. After the crusades, much of this stopped. Not because of some fundamental change in the religion of islam, but a change in leadership. The wars allowed more militant leaders to take control of the mosques and they fostered a hatred of christians and jews, something that had not yet occured.

So, you can say that the Christian attitude of "conversion by the sword" is what caused the current antagonism between middle-east and west.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Lol You are right. It's interesting how the term secular terrorism and religious terrorism get mixed up. I'll look into it.

Thanks for pointing that out.

In some ways, religion is a tool used by some to sucker believers into doing things that they may not do otherwise. I think many people who believe in an eternal soul are on the lookout for a way to get a step ahead in the afterlife. Some of these people are easily blinded by their beliefs and fall for the division of "us and them". And a small number of those people are easily convinced that acts of terrorism are justified by their religion.

However, I don't think that religion is the only vehicle for terrorism. Someone who feels the least bit slighted by their life or has fear of something is also capable of causing mayhem and destruction. Look at Ted Kaczynski. These types of people have a more difficult time gathering followers though. Not everyone can be a Charlie Manson.

I think that is why large scale terror operations lay the religion on thickly. The framework for brainwashing is already set in place and all it takes is a little creative thinking to twist it up and spit it out.

Originally posted by Trueman
Did you ever see a known muslim extremist get arrested in his own country?

You bring up a very interesting point. YES, they almost always do. Sure, perhaps not in a war-torn country where the infrastructure has been decimated by invasion (Iraq or Afghanistan), but otherwise, they almost always do. Pakistan is an example. Egypt is an example.

Originally posted by Trueman
I never heard about a terrorist, who practiced christianity and who was supported on his actions by a real christian church openly. I mean : A christian church saying someone like that is a martyr? Don't think so.

Another interesting point. Almost all mosques fully and completely condemn terror attacks that were done in the name of Islam. I can't think of any mosque that didn't condemn 9/11, for example (maybe some Taliban-run mosques in Afghanistan). Now if you are talking about political ideologies, or nationalistic or patriotic tendencies, then that is another matter. Palestinians may laud the actions of a terrorist against Israel, because they feel they've been antagonised by them. Or Afghanis or Iraqis may laud the actions of a terrorist against America, because they feel they've been antagonised by them. They may even bring religion into it, but that is obviously not the main cause.

The thing with Muhammad was that unlike Jesus, he wasn't ONLY a spiritual leader. He had to take care of his people, especially in the beginning, when they could've easily been crushed into non-existence. A good parallel example is Moses or Abraham. Jesus, on the other hand, had the relatively civilised Romans in control at his time.

Originally posted by chuber
And yes, I will gladly take as my burden in the argument all the sins of the Christian Church if you will bear all the sins of secular humanism.

This is another interesting point. Should every person who calls themself muslim be responsible for the action of every other person who calls themself muslim? WHY?
I always find it odd when people use the argument "Yeah, well the muslims should take responsibility for these terrorists". What on earth does that mean? If that "muslim" is in a position to do so (Police, anti-terrorist squad, Government), they DO condemn these groups, outlaw them, actively work against them (if they are in their sphere of influence) and speak against them. If they are not in a position of power, they condemn them. AND THIS IS ALREADY BEING DONE. What more are they supposed to do?

Originally posted by B3lz3buth
I'm sorry but this is total nonsense in a world with epidemic AIDS / STD to encourage NOT USING CONDOM !

I'm not sure this is a very good example, because the same religion strongly discourages (in fact, condemns) pre-marital and extra-marital sex. So is the church to blame if some of its followers follow one thing they say (don't use condoms), but don't follow the other?

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by Trueman

 

What are you trying to say ?


@ Chuber

I will gladly take as my burden in the argument all the sins of the Christian Church if you will bear all the sins of secular humanism.

Sins ?

You need to understand christianity. It seems you are confusing terms and definitions. For example : Let say your parents are catholics, in that case, when you were a baby they baptized you as a catholic. Then, you grow up and find out you put aside what your church says and start having your own opinion of what means to be catholic. One day, under stress, you shoot your boss and coworkers.

That makes you a criminal and you must go to jail, right?

Ok, now, when they ask you why you did that, you tell them "A voice told you". That makes you crazy and you must be locked in. Right?

BUT, if you grow up hating other cultures and religions and your church helps to plan that attack, that makes you an extremist. Exactly like muslims terrorist.

THAT NEVER HAPPENED WITH CHRISTIANS.

Brother, there is no christian terrorist.

reply to post by Trueman


How about Army of God, Christian Identity, Christian Patriot or Concerned Chrisitans just to name a few. Or how about the Ku Klux Klan.

No, not all Christians support or advocate terror, but there are plenty of terror groups which lay claim to Christianity. Just like there are plenty of terror groups that follow Islam, but not all muslims condone terrorism.