Christian terrorism.

Hi ATS.

Being bombarded with terrorism the last decade or so... It looks like there are only Muslim terrorists around. The mainstream media has done a great job, covering Muslim terrorism. They succeeded to make the majority of the western world to think Islam is the biggest threat they can think of.

DISCLAIMER :
1. This is not a thread to bash Christianity.


I was thinking about Christianity, which has its part of fundamental followers among the masses. Actually, I've heard, read, seen, and experienced stuff that convinced me that there have to be Christian terrorists as well. I'd like to present to you what I found about Christian terrorism.



Militant anti-abortion organization.

Psalm 91:

“You will not be afraid of the terror by night, or of the arrow that flies by day.” Hill interpreted this as an affirmation that his act was biblically approved.

Hill was a pastor and the one who killed an abortion doctor. The above psalm is said to be the one that made him believe he was doing a good thing.Hill immediately dropped his gun and surrendered to the police. Hi was executed in Florida.

This guy knew this would / could happen. Does that not make him some sort of a suicide killer ?

This Guy wrote a letter from his cell which said. :

The biblical commandment against murder also “requires using the means necessary to defend against murder—including lethal force.” He went on to say that he regarded “the cutting edge of Satan’s current attack” to be “the abortionist’s knife,” and therefore his actions had ultimate theological significance.

Anyway...

The anti-abortion movement includes a militant group. Randall Terry is the founder of this organization. He signed a manifesto that is called :

“Manifesto for the Christian Church,” which asserted that America should “function as a Christian nation.” The Manifesto said that America should therefore oppose “social moral evils” of secular society such as “abortion on demand, fornication, homosexuality, sexual entertainment, state usurpation of parental rights and God-given liberties, statist-collectivist theft from citizens through devaluation of their money and redistribution of their wealth, and evolutionism taught as a monopoly viewpoint in the public schools.”

Source.

Here is another interesting article on topic.
Christian Terrorism, Dominion Theology, Theonomy, Reconstruction Theology, and Tea Parties

The army of God is the name of the movement that is involved in violent behavior.

Actually I think one of them is a blog on the other.

In my opinion this guy Randall Terry has some dangerous ideas about society and how Christianity should be dominating the American way of life.

There are also a few that are not considered as being part of something bigger, but as an independent event.

Lunatic Baptists shut down summer library program with threats of violence

www.thehuffingtonpost.com...”" target="_blank" class="postlink">Diary of a Christian Terrorist

Death threats towards Colorado Biologists

Christian Fundamentalist Terrorism.


There are more American Organizations that are considered Christian Terrorism.

The klu klux klan.
Lambs of Christ.
Concerned Christians.

Hutaree was a Christian militia group based in Adrian, Michigan. In 2010, after an FBI agent infiltrated the group, nine of its members were indicted by a federal grand jury in Detroit on charges of seditious conspiracy to use of improvised explosive devices, teaching the use of explosive materials, and possessing a firearm during a crime of violence.

Also several other countries are home of these groups like :

Canada.
India
Northern Ireland.
Uganda.
Russia.
Romania.

Source.


I do not want to bash any Christians with this thread. I only wanted to show that religious terrorism isn't an Islamic monopoly.

Especially for those who live in America, there are groups of people that want to change the US from a secular to a Christian state. Although part of Christianity has always been around, these radical changes are absurd ( IMO) and they are willing to use force and violence to achieve them.

Just saying to look behind you once in a while.


In my opinion, both Islam and Christianity have always been home to a radical center. The difference is that this usually only effected the region these terrorist groups were home to.

Islamic fundamentalism became a global threat because of the continuous involvement of foreign control, which is mainly the US for the last 50 years.

Can you really blame them ? What would you do when you learn that others have messed with yours and other countries and even start wars, killing innocents and so on...

I can understand why they became terrorists. By all means don't think I think it's OK !

I think the problem should be eliminated. As long as that will not happen, new terrorist will stand up. This could go on forever. Do we really want that to happen ?

Anyways...

I hope I've offered a different view on terrorism. What came to my mind was that this patriot act could end up to be a good idea.

This thread is provided with comments that are mine personal ideas.
Feel free to change them.

Kind regards.

~ Sinter











[edit on 8/18/2010 by Sinter Klaas]

reply to post by Sinter Klaas



The question is the numbers. Muslim terrorists and their supporters vastly outnumber Christian terrorists and all other terrorists who use religion as their excuse combined.

Originally posted by pacific_waters
The question is the numbers. Muslim terrorists and their supporters vastly outnumber Christian terrorists and all other terrorists who use religion as their excuse combined.

Not weighing in on either side of the argument here - but I support the discussion of it.

Can anyone dig out some statistics for the above quote?

Its was a combined effort from the muslim terrorists and the neo-conservatives (who's ideaology was bourne out of christian fundamentalism) that brought us 9/11. However these isalmic extremists are guns for hire and only use religion as a cover. You pay these scumbags enough and they will believe and do anything...

All religion needs to be eradicated because it only appeals to the weak minded, those idiots will believe anything. Give them a gun and some dollar and you have an army believing that heaven awaits if they kill for whatever twat they believe in....................

Thank you OP i agree with you 100%

Every i mean EVERY religion is by nature an endoctrination and a dogma. Religions push people to do extremely bad ( i can say evil) things under the name of God. No place for free will and thinking you have to accept what they tell you. Its only purpose is to control the masses, i repeat TO CONTROL THE MASSES.

I am really open minded but there is no way i can ever have any beliefs in whatsoever religions

In my opinion religions are obsolete and had to be abolished if we ever want a peacefull world. What are the primary cause for war ? Money, ideology and Religion...you can't proove me wrong and history proove them as the the root of all evil and the cause of many many attrocity.

Remember The Crusades ? The Inquisitions ? Salem witches ? all that slaughter, torture, massacres and cruelty in the name of God... ??? exemples are countless...

God is really ok with all the tortures, killing and massacres under is name ??? If so i prefer to remain without any religion in my life.

I respect everyone opinions so im asking the same, no need to tell me i will burn in hell for eternity being such an antechrist, i do not believe in it in the first place

The question is the numbers. Muslim terrorists and their supporters vastly outnumber Christian...

This is not the point, 1 or 10000000 terrorists is the same.

Where are the peace and love and hope messages in terrorism ?

The simple fact that you think about hurting or killing people because they not share your religious beliefs NULLIFY the message of your religion and by the fact NULLIFY your religion.

reply to post by pacific_waters


Well... that is probably true.

Now ask yourself... Why are there more of them ?

Could there be a reason for a lot of Muslims to dislike or even hate the US and / or the west ?
And...
Why not so many within the western communities ? From a non - Muslim origin ?

I second Jokei's request.

reply to post by strangleholder1


Neo conservatists ?

What are the trying to conserve ? an already lost set of identity and morals or or the rotten side of society ?

Or do I fail to understand what conservative means ? Please explain if so ?

Here's a website that keeps some running statistics on Muslim terror attacks.

The count

People go out of their way to try to connect terrorism to Christianity. However, it's pretty hard to come up with weekly/ monthly Christian terror attacks.

Try and find a Christian martyrdom video.

Usually, the Christian terror attacks are by individuals with a very strong focus like an abortion doctor.(that doesn't excuse the terror attack)

However, you have almost daily Muslim terror attacks. You had a suicide bomber in Iraq just take out 50-60 police recruits.

When you here the words "suicide bomber" do you need to fill in the unmentioned Muslim or Islamic? When you here of a bomb in a market place killing many innocents what religion comes to mind?

I think that there is a history of violence associated with Islam that goes back to the foundations of the religion. Remember....Mohammad was a warrior.

reply to post by B3lz3buth


I understand where you coming from, I really do.
However I do not think religion comes anywhere near of being the cause of several on your list.

I don't know about Salem's witch hunt or the inquisition, but any war has likely been planned in advance and religion is only used to get people along.

You see, when those in power have needs and urges to govern those of others or the ambition to obtain a certain goal in life. No fool will volunteer.
Throw in the religion card and get is what you see.
A bunch of chaotic and untrained force. They will deliver the goal because they are willing to die for the good cause.
No need to really control the masses just a mere push in the right direction the masses will do the rest.

reply to post by Wildbob77


I honestly don't think that you understand the point I was making.
It's no secret Muslims have a better track record these days.

The question is why.

Every action will trigger a reaction and I pretty sure that it was not reading the Koran.

There are religious extremists of all kinds in the world that will do anything to spread their dogma, unfortunately christians have their extremists as well.
Let us not forget (or learn for those of you that dont know) that 9/11 really has nothing to do with muslim terrorists. The so called "terrorists" were merely pawns of the elite that orchestrated the false flag attack that was 9/11. The only "terrorists" are the global elite slowly taking our liberties, pointing at the man behind the curtain (terrorists) to distract the world form their misdoings.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


All religions have a pile of atrocious behavior.

Even recently the priests pedophiles that do not get the same
level of prosecution as the rest of the public population.

The main reason Islam get a lot of focus is the potential for WW3,
the 2 current wars, 9-11, the televised beheadings, killing
Theo van Gough in the street in broad daylight, burning 100's
of buses in France, riots over cartoons depicting Mr. M. and other events...

The Christians have their nuts, they just seem to be under achievers
of late in the historic sense of violence via religion.

Just let me point this:

Any crazy person can make explode a bomb in a suicide terror attack. If the church or religion he practiced supports his actions, then you can link his religion to terrorism. That is happening with muslims, their terrorists go to mosque and pray before attack, they meet each other there to make plans. Did you ever see a known muslim extremist get arrested in his own country?

I never heard about a terrorist, who practiced christianity and who was supported on his actions by a real christian church openly. I mean : A christian church saying someone like that is a martyr? Don't think so.

Of course there are many criminals between christians, but they get cought and put in jail, usually by a cop who happens to be christian too.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


You need to study Islam.

Mohammad is considered the most perfect person that every existed. The Quran is the holy book of Islam. It was dictated by Mohammad to scribes and details his life.

Mohammad also led armies in the war of badr, the war of Uhad, the seige of Madinah and the war of Hunain. There is a special name give to wars in which the prophet Muhammad participated... Ghazwa

If you view Mohammad as the perfect person and he was a warrior, would there be a tendency to believe that fighting battles against unbelievers would be a normal part of your life?

reply to [urn=http://www/forum/thread604040/pg1#pid9431382]post by B3lz3buth[/urn]


Is the problem so much the religion of a person or the person him/her self?
You could get rid of all religions but it would not help. The crazies will still find a way/reason to get ya!
Some just find the excuse they need in religion. Take it away and they will find another conduit to vent from.

reply to post by B3lz3buth


To say that a human institution that has spanned the globe for two millennium has done evil is to say that it is a human institution but to remain willfully ignorant of Her great benefit to humanity is to also display one's ignorance of history, philosophy, science, education, art, politics and, most importantly, the concept of charity toward one's fellow man.

Abolishing religion for peace is what the philosophy with the greatest evil has tried to do to genocidal effect. Mao, Stalin.

Would you abolish science for the evils it creates, among which must be counted pollution, nuclear war, genetically modified food, big Pharma, big oil?

Philosophies are not like rocks - varying in goodness depending upon who wields them. Some are actually better (more accurate) than others. And I would place the philosophy of the Christian Church above your individual secular humanist philosophy any day. And yes, I will gladly take as my burden in the argument all the sins of the Christian Church if you will bear all the sins of secular humanism.

"MSNBC Admits FBI Co-Opted Hutaree Militia"
MSNBC admits the FBI infiltrated the Hutaree. For more than a year the FBI was involved with this group. They picked the perfect time to set them up for arrests to create publicity to demonize all dissent against the government.

www.nationalexpositor.com...

2010
Former CIA Officials Admit To Faking Bin Laden Video
Two former CIA officials have admitted to creating a fake video in which intelligence officers dressed up as Osama Bin Laden and his cronies in an effort to defame the terrorist leader throughout the middle east.

The details are outlined in a Washington Post article by investigative reporter and former Army Intelligence case officer Jeff Stein.

wacla.org...

Hal Turner

What was so amazing about this admission is that the government had previously asked the court to bar Mr. Turner and his lawyers from mentioning anything about his role with the FBI unless Mr. Turner took the Witness stand. The Judge granted that government Motion, and Turner was prevented from making any mention of his FBI ties during his second trial until Turner himself took the stand.

Today, AUSA MacArthur “opened the door” by mentioning Turner’s role with the FBI in her opening statement. When her statement was finished, the Defense asked the Judge to be able to make an opening statement and to also mention Turner’s FBI role because the government had opened that door. The Judge DENIED that motion!

family-of-hal-turner.blogspot....

And in this corner weighing 70lbs soaking wet:

“Left-wing terrorist groups” generally refer to those that adhere to a "forward-looking" ideology, one that advocates a political or social system that has not existed before in the United States. Typically associated with extreme liberalism, examples include the May 19th Communist Party, the Weather Underground, and the Black Liberation Army.

and in the opposite corner weighing 72 lbs when full of whiskey:

“Right-wing terrorist groups” generally refer to those that adhere to a "backward-looking" ideology, one that advocates a return to a political or social system that is perceived to have existed previously in the United States. Typically associated with extreme conservatism, examples include the KKK, white supremacy groups like the Aryan Nations or groups like the Sheriff's Posse Comitatus that oppose centralized federal power.

and waiting in the wings with a folding chair:

“Single-issue terrorist groups” are those that advocate on behalf of a particular political or social issue, such as anti-abortion or the environment. Yes, you read that correctly: Some Pro-life groups are now viewed by the United States government through the lens of “domestic terrorist groups.”

and the tag team on the front bench waiting for the ref to look the other way:

Other now-designated “Terrorism Enterprise” single-issue groups include the Earth Liberation Front (ELF), the Animal Liberation Front (ALF). Even People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) is viewed as being “linked” to terrorism because of its cooperation with the Animal Liberation Front (ALF).

Muslim Christian, left right, liberal conservative, its all BS.
the peeps are being played
mofo suckas

reply to post by Wildbob77


Why should I study Islam ? What makes you think I'm clueless ?

It doesn't matter what kind of guy Mohamed was. What I tried to show is that terrorism isn't new. That it isn't practiced by only Muslims and that there is a pretty good reason for those people to fight back as well as against each other.

The non believers argument kind of becomes useless when you consider that most terrorist attacks by Muslims are towards Muslim. This has always been the case and it still is.

Global terrorism however is something new. Why ? The answer is already given by Osama bin Laden himself.
When he made public he was starting his jihad and he called all Muslims to arms he said that it will last until the west get all of their people out of their countries.

The US still succeeded in making you go for the Islam is barbaric option, while the US has meddled, influenced and even forced their ways on them. They invaded Iraq, Afghanistan have permanent bases in other countries and shoots the crap out of people that live there.

I would think it would be weird if they didn't fight back... One way or another.

Of course the Islam threatens our way of life. They have proven to use deadly force. There are lots of problems with Islam around the world.

Just take in mind that it was the west that set things in motion. The west also allowed them to come live here. The west that behaves as if they own the middle east.

Ironically terrorism was defined in the Oxford dictionary for the first time. The definition was : Government by force.

All of the misery caused by west is beyond the imagination and you come here saying Mohamed was a warrior and they worship the guy imitating his every move to be the cause of todays situation ?

reply to post by Trueman


What are you trying to say ?


@ Chuber

I will gladly take as my burden in the argument all the sins of the Christian Church if you will bear all the sins of secular humanism.

Sins ?

reply to post by chuber

To say that a human institution that has spanned the globe for two millennium has done evil is to say that it is a human institution but to remain willfully ignorant of Her great benefit to humanity is to also display one's ignorance of history, philosophy, science, education, art, politics and, most importantly, the concept of charity toward one's fellow man.

This is valid argumentation and i never said religion have done ONLY bad things and are total evil.

I respect the fondamental basis of religions such as peace, love charity etc... and yes your right my friend this lead to great benefit to humanity.

Religion give hope, joy etc... to millions of people and this is a good thing no argument against that.

I think the problem is religious messages and writting are missinterpreted and used in the way the religious elite want to and that lead to atrocity, suffering and war.

Religious concept have to be actualised to reflect today society needs.

I'm sorry but this is total nonsense in a world with epidemic AIDS / STD to encourage NOT USING CONDOM !

Considering abortion like a crime against god ? is it really better to give birth to a child coming from a RAPE ? or a child with know birth defect who can never have a normal life, putting a enormous amount of financial and sentimental pressure on parents and relative? in an already full capacity overpopulated world ?

Maybe in some case abortion is the best for both parts ?

Would you abolish science for the evils it creates, among which must be counted pollution, nuclear war, genetically modified food, big Pharma, big oil?

This is really good point and i see the parallel clearly.

Yes i would like to see this part of science abolished but not the other parts we love so much like electricity etc... its like saying abolishing religion but just in a half, my position is hard to maintain, i give it to you

P.S : English is not my primary language, i cannot express my thinkings and argumentations in the way i want, english education in my country is CRAP and i have to learn it basically by myself.

[edit on 18/8/2010 by B3lz3buth]