Hospital Kidnapping or For her own good?

This video just posted to YouTube is disturbing. I'm not sure about this one at all. The hospital has a legal right to hold anyone who attempts suicide for "psychological evaluation" but what if their legal guardian doesn't want them to? And, what if the "suicide attempt" is disputed? Should they do it? For sure, there was a better way of handling this situation and it does look like the guardian was "locked and loaded" for a controversy otherwise why would he have a camera mounted to his hat/head? Additionally, in my opinion, there was no care given by the guardian to how the situation would affect the young children with them.

What do you think?

This is what he says:

My cousin had an epileptic seizure with a knife in her hand and when she went to the hospital, they did not believe her and accused her of attempted suicide. They kidnapped her and would not let her leave. She called me and I did the only thing I could think to do when a family member is kidnapped, ...I went to rescue her. They assaulted her and have inflicted more damage than she could ever do to herself, this was "FOR HER OWN GOOD"! In order to keep you from hurting yourself, they attack you and hit your children!

[edit on 15/8/2010 by Iamonlyhuman]

[I'm a mental health worker - here's my 2 cents]

I don't know what state this occurred in, but the 72 hour evaluation is usually in the state Health & Welfare code (In California it's H&W 5150) which states you can legally be detained for up to 72 hours for psychiatric evaluation if there is "probable cause" to believe that you are a) a danger to yourself, b) a danger to others, or c) gravely disabled due to a mental disorder.

During that 72 hour time period, you MUST, by law, be evaluated within the first 24-hours by a licensed psychiatrist who will determine whether to a) Uphold the detention or b) drop the detention.

Had the father and the girl been patient, they could have explained the whole situation to the evaluating psychiatrist and he/she would most likely have let her go. The nurse did a crappy job of explaining this to them - that's why the situation escalated.

If the detention is upheld, you must be released at the end of the 72 hours, unless the attending psychiatrist writes another order for a 10-day certification (In California it's a 5250). A court officer must come into the hospital for a hearing to determine whether it's warranted or whether the patient's rights are being violated. At this point the patient has a right to have consultation by a PATIENT'S RIGHTS ADVOCATE. By law, the hospital must make one available to the patient. The court officer hears all arguments right there in the hospital and determines whether to uphold the 10 day certification. If it is not upheld, the hospital must discharge you.

Modern day psychiatry is not like the 60's where they could just lock you up indefinately for arbitrary reasons. There are stringent legal processes that are ongoing, even for those patients who are very sick. It's quite rare for patients to be "institutionalized" for more than a few months to a year even for very bad schizophrenics.

Very unhelpfull and strange employees.. :/ The black security guard seemed amused And if there is such law, why not clearly explaining it instead of assaulting ? WHo are de crazies here ?

That video makes me very angry - it s bull# law. Its imprisonment without due process. A single person makes a single judgement without any oversight. The government has no business stopping anyone from committing suicide anyway and why they believe a 72 hour waiting period would do that is beyond me . If someone wants to end it then they are going to end it. I do hope they get some people fired or drain that hospital for a lot of money. Of course when we have Obamacare this is going to happen WAY more often without any recourse what so ever.

[edit on 15-8-2010 by ararisq]

On the orders of Physician you CAN be locked up indefinitely, there is no due process in mental health evaluations.
I know because I was spent 3 months in mental health facility for writings deemed "suicidal". I was a minor at the time. There was no arguing with the staff. They pumped me full of drugs that I neither needed nor wanted - and I was not suicidal is the irony of it all.

This is kidnapping to help the hospital make a buck. They do it more often than anyone might care to admit.
Once your in your legal "rights" just vanish.
Play their game and they will let you out eventually.
There is no other way.

I feel terrible for the kids having to watch all this. No doubt it was traumatizing for them. I DON'T wish for them to become millionaires because of this. It would only make them worse as adults.
Yes, the man should have had more patience and worked with the system to get her out. 3 days isn't going to kill anyone staying in a mental ward but you might feel like killing yourself once your in.
I can understand everyone's position in the video, the staff has their jobs and no personal understanding of the woman's real personality. The guardian feels he is trying to protect her but he is really just hurting the children more by his actions.
This will not end favorably for the family. The woman's struggles may only make her stay much longer and be used as evidence against her sadly.
You can;t beat the system folks. Not this way. The family will be the only ones the worse for this in the end and I find that very, very saddening.

She sure wasn't acting very rational, was she. Neither was the guy doing the taping. He went in there planning to get "evidence" and he got what he wanted considering he refused to listen to anyone and did everything possible to cause a scene. Only thing he could have done to cause a bigger one would have been punching the nurse, which honestly I was expecting about half way through. Had he gone in there with a different attitude than "I'm going to the rescue. I'm the hero." it likely would have gone down differently. And who the hell brings kids to a hospital when they're planning to make a scene? Let's just traumatize the kids while I play rescuer.

Bottom line is, if the doc who evaluated her thought she was a suicide risk he had the right to hold her for a few days. She wasn't pumped full of anything or she wouldn't have been able to fight like that. Kicking and hitting hospital staff is generally speaking not the best way to prove to them that you're in your right mind when they're already holding you on suicide watch, neither is holding your kids in front of you like shields for that matter. This little episode probably did get her drugged to calm her down and likely got her held longer than she would have if she'd just sat there for a few days while they made sure she wasn't trying to kill herself.

Edit: How old is this woman supposed to be that she has kids, but also has a guardian? Something's not right here...

[edit on 15-8-2010 by Jenna]

That guy just made the situation that much worse. Now I can clearly understand why the woman and the man would be upset. But it really is the hospitals job to make sure that woman is okay.

You have to think, how many people they get a day who says "I wasn't trying to kill myself it was just an accident." I dont see the problem with at least a 72 hour evaluation, and then she could of went home and no harm done.

The black employee smiling the whole time though, that was uncalled for. And that guy shouldn't of brought those kids up there to witness that, do you see how upset they were?

the whole situation was unnecessary and avoidable.

reply to post by Rockerchic4God


A million stars to you from me if they could be given!


The situation seemed to me that it was a mixture of the staff's lack of professionalism in communicating the situation effectively but at the same time encountering individuals so tunnel sighted that any form of reasoning at that time would be of no effect. Just another lose-lose situation for both sides at the time of the altercation and another day on the job.

My brother is a psycholoist at a hospital in Kentucky. The law states anyone that threatens suicide that is taken to the hospital is observed on suicide watch for a period of time and given extensive counseling before being released. This law is for children as well and parents or guardians cannot just take them home. I know that some threaten suicide are not serious about it but believe some are and even on close watch find ways in which to do it. Not a good day to go into a room and find a person hanging from the door by the bedsheets or overdosed on medication that someone brought into them. Suicide threats should always be taken seriously!

reply to post by Jess_Undefined



I will disagree slightly. I was held for a week at a hospital under mental evaluation because they said I tried to commit suicide. I had been on xanax for sleep and anxiety and took my doses too close together and it freaked me out so I called 911. I passed out in the ambulance. I had never taken it before that close and the effects scared me. The ER doctor told me I was fine and that dose I took wouldn't have done anything just make me sleep harder and quicker.. I didn't know that I thought something was wrong. I didn't see a doctor for almost 5 days, just nurses and the hospital doctor not the psych doctor they said I had to wait for. I was not happy and my mom was getting really pissed off at them. I was NOT happy and didn't need to be there. I missed a week's worth of work and had a HUGE bill later on that I couldn't afford to pay.

This is one insane story and I would sue the crap out of them. I am not for suing but this is absolutely wrong imo. There are laws and rules they should have followed and that nurse is a horrible nurse. She needs to learn how to talk to people and inform them of situations so things do get this way.

As for the vid - the adults should not and would not have started problems if they had been thinking about the children. Now the kid is probably afraid of everything, I feel bad for them. They should have waited to talk to the Dr. The child might have said something to a staff member regarding suicide that the guardians don't know about. And if the child has seizures why did he have a knife anyway?

reply to post by ararisq



So you don't think its right to try to save a life? A child's life at that! Shame on you!

reply to post by mblahnikluver


No one is happy to have to be confined to a hospital whether it be for mental or physical reasons. The hospital Dr. that saw you would have made reports on your process and the Pyche Dr. would read those and followed up as necessary or needed. Glad to hear you did alright and were released with good health.

reply to post by crazydaisy


It wasn't a child he went there for, it was a grown woman. Those kids are hers. But yeah, the kids probably were traumatized by the whole experience.

reply to post by mblahnikluver


You have to understand though, if those doctors were to let you or her go, just because you guys said you were fine, and took your word for it, and either of you went home the next day without an evaluation and killed yourselves, that hospital could get in really big trouble and your family could sue them for wrongful death.

Its the hospitals JOB to make sure you are okay. More than half the people who get taken to the hospital because of an accident of that sort, say that it was just a mistake and they are fine, when in reality they are not fine.

The hopsital did there job.

Could the nurse have handled it better? Of course! They could of went about it a different way. But in the end, they were not in the wrong.

reply to post by crazydaisy


Thank you but I was just fine, just got paranoid. I do that with any medication because I rarely take them, so if I take one and it makes me feel weird I get worried and call for help..Now I just look online at symptoms. Back when this happened I didn't have internet access like I do now. The point is they held me for NO reason! They MADE me wait 5 days while they charged me thousands of dollars I didn't have. I was pissed as hell. I was perfectly fine and I wasn't trying to commit suicide. This is why I don't like doctors to be honest. They don't listen to you, they make their own assumptions.

As soon as the doctor told me after I woke up that i was just fine that night and in no danger they should have let me go but NO the insane doctor who came on after tried to group me in with junkies and suicidal people. I almost lost my job because of this.

The mental health care system where I live (FL) is very backwards and it's funny how when I actually needed help 5yrs ago when diagnosed bi-polar/manic depressive nobody wanted to help me, yet when I was perfectly fine they held me for no reason. I worked thru my own problems with bi-polar because I was frustrated that I couldn't receive help. I guess I should have accidentally taken to many xanax and called 911, then maybe they would have helped me when I really needed it.

Originally posted by Jess_Undefined
reply to post by mblahnikluver

 

You have to understand though, if those doctors were to let you or her go, just because you guys said you were fine, and took your word for it, and either of you went home the next day without an evaluation and killed yourselves, that hospital could get in really big trouble and your family could sue them for wrongful death.

I was fine as I said before and even the doctor I originally saw made the same comment. I didn't call saying I wanted to die help me, I called and said I think I took too much medication and it's freaking me out. Instead they went OVERBOARD and held me which like I said almost cost me my JOB which would have cost me everything I had. The doctors there didn't care about my well being all they cared about was the money they were gonna get out of it. I haven't paid a dime of it and I refuse to pay since I did not ask to be there!

I also said my mother was there and she was just as pissed so again, you can't assume someone is trying to commit suicide. It was obvious I was fine but did they even want to listen? No, they wanted to sit there and treat me like someone I wasn.t I dont blame this person in the video for getting upset. There is nothing like be labelled suicidal when you aren't and then held against your will in a damn hospital room for a week wondering if you have a job when you get out.

This is why I don't go to doctors. I don't trust them but this is my own personal experience and opinion. If I really need a doctor I go but I sure as heck won;t be calling like that again for help and then feeling like a prisoner.

Its the hospitals JOB to make sure you are okay. More than half the people who get taken to the hospital because of an accident of that sort, say that it was just a mistake and they are fine, when in reality they are not fine.
The hopsital did there job.
Could the nurse have handled it better? Of course! They could of went about it a different way. But in the end, they were not in the wrong.

I am not gonna argue with you until you have been VIOLATED this way you will never understand.

I know what they say they have to do but there are times when they go OVERBOARD. I had NO history of psychological anything, my mother was there and my own doctor contacted the hospital. You know when they psych doctor finally came he talked to me for like 2mins and I was free to go. That is complete bs! I was forced to stay there for some "evaluation" they said I needed and it took 2 damn mins? No I think not, it is a money scam. I filed a complaint with the hospital and of course nothing ever came but bills and a fear of ever asking for help.

I had a really hard time after this trusting anyone I went to for medical attention. I felt they wouldn't listen and only see what they wanted to see. I was 21 when this happened, had I known then what I know now I would have just slept it off.

reply to post by mblahnikluver


I will be the first to admit the mental health care system isn't up to par, there is a shortage of nurses, doctors and facilities. The rules and regulations are not always as they should be - however with this said it is better than no care at all. You said you don't like Drs but when you didn't feel well you called one. I think most people don't like the idea of seeing a Dr. because it might indicate they are sick and no one wants to be sick.

Originally posted by crazydaisy
reply to post by mblahnikluver

 

I will be the first to admit the mental health care system isn't up to par, there is a shortage of nurses, doctors and facilities. The rules and regulations are not always as they should be - however with this said it is better than no care at all. You said you don't like Drs but when you didn't feel well you called one. I think most people don't like the idea of seeing a Dr. because it might indicate they are sick and no one wants to be sick.

Yes they do need more people in mental health care and these people need to be properly trained. When I did have problems with bi-polar I saw the mental health care side in a whole new light. I know it isn't like this all over but I do know where I live, FL, is bad for mental health care. They don't follow any rules and if you try and complain or appeal it you are labeled as the crazy one. It's absolutely insane.

I had an "evaluation" if you want to call it that outside a doctors office in a lobby with other people around. She was too busy looking at people walking by and doodling yes doodling in her notebook, she wasn't even listening to me. I was charged 50 dollars for that and it went nowhere. It was really frustrating for me but I learned how to handle my so called "disease" or "disorder" on my own. I didn't need a doctor and honestly I just felt like they wanted to keep me drugged up. I never took the meds because I felt they made me someone I wasn't and I didn't like how I felt. I haven't taken my meds, seroquel in almost 5 years and I have never been happier.

I had no problem before the incident where I was held for a week with going to a doctor, it was after because I was afraid they would do it to me again.

When I did go seek help because I knew I really needed it I was shunned and ignored so yes I do have a very different view of doctors than most. I don't see them as helpful, because anytime I have ever had to go to one it only makes the situation worse. I am not stupid though, if I am having serious health concerns I of course go to a doctor but when it comes to mental health I don't trust them.

I have always been into psychology and I studied bi-polar disorder for a long time and once I got an understanding of it I was able to see the signs of when an "episode" would happen and what triggered it. I knew something wasn't wrong and i am not ashamed of having bi-polar issues, it happens and I think a lot of what was going on in my life at that time was a huge catalyst for it to emerge.

I just with the mental health care profession would change for the better.

Originally posted by crazydaisy
reply to post by ararisq

 

So you don't think its right to try to save a life? A child's life at that! Shame on you!

Before you scold me you should actually watch the video you are commenting on - the woman involved is not a child.