‘Variability’ % proves God is the SPECIAL CAUSE, skeptics, why are you ignoring?

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
[TD... you should know by now that many of these people need to refer to something else to tell you how they think or feel. Remember these people need a guide book to life otherwise they're lost little sheep!

IRM :shk:

Another great biblical truth...pride goes before a fall....stay tuned my "self-made" super hero.

You bettcha I need external help, its what playing handball on a curve SHOWS you

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

electricity huh, that kinda neat. plane coming in now, gotta go. do you have a link, study i can view?

Someone already posted the Wired article regarding lightning and the creation of life right after your request. Either way, I'm pretty sure I've already posted that link in one of your other threads, but I might be mixing you up with Randy

I found it...thank you!

Scientists Create First Self-Replicating Synthetic Life

source: www.wired.com...

Question? Did this happen by ACCIDENT...or was it ENGINEERED by the scietists? Extrapolate 100000000000000000 times the complexity, and poof time and chance and the scientist were created, NOT!

Originally posted by Romekje

Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by Indellkoffer

 

Voyager is waaaaaayyy out there....

what has it seen?

Not much....

related to intelligent life....

Voyager hasn't even left our solar system

Well of course, I know that...

You are dodging the point...we should see more earth 90% in OUR universe...please take another gander at the OP

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by Romekje

Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by Indellkoffer

 

Voyager is waaaaaayyy out there....

what has it seen?

Not much....

related to intelligent life....

But how would we know if we haven't even looked at 10% of the sky????

Voyager hasn't even left our solar system

Well of course, I know that...

You are dodging the point...we should see more earth 90% in OUR universe...please take another gander at the OP

And why are we supposed to do that given we haven't even examined 10% of the sky? Our sample size of examined places in the universe is just too small statistically speaking...so your entire "theory" collapses like a house of cards.

[edit on 13-8-2010 by MrXYZ]

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Assuming that creationism is a mathematical likelihood, how then do you jump to the assumption that the bible is the accurate truth and not, say, any of the other scores of creation accounts from around the world?

TD, I believe the Bible to be reliable, therefore the biblical account of creation to be reliable…not overly concerned with the age per se’, really could care less. I echo former President Ronald Reagan sentiment when he said, “Of the many influences that have shaped the United States into a distinctive nation and people, none may be said to be more fundamental and enduring than the Bible.”

In a nutshell the Bible (therefore the creation account) is trustworthy because of the textual tradition from the original document to the copies, the Internal evidence (what it claimed for itself) and the External evidence (how the document aligned itself with facts, dates, etc.) Rememeber the Scribes were about perfection in copying, it was their solemn duty. Did you see the Book of Eli? Also the reliability of The Massoretic Text, have you seen their painstaking process? The Dead Sea Scrolls accuracy impressed me. Also, the Greek translation of the Old Testament, called the Septuagint, also confirms the accuracy of the copyists who ultimately gave us the Massoretic text. The fulfilled prophesies of Christ, his resurrection and the subsequent way many of his followers allowed themselves to be killed….all for a lie? No way. And the fact that it is logical a God could preserve his message.

But most-importantly I know him, probably longer than most ATS posters have existed. He’s my best friend and he doesn’t lie.

I found this quote that sorta sums up my take quite well, “In most cases, those who reject the reliability of the Bible do so because of false impressions they have gained from sources other than the Bible. Most people’s knowledge about the Bible is derived almost completely from second-, third-, and fourth-hand sources. It is not surprising, then, that so many people think that the Bible says, “God helps those who help themselves,” or, “Cleanliness is next to godliness.” Many are also convinced that the Scriptures teach that the earth is flat or that it is the center of the universe. Another common misconception is that the books of the New Testament were written centuries after the events they describe or that our earliest New Testament manuscripts go back only to the fourth or fifth centuries A.D. Also, most people have somehow been given the impression that the English Bible is a translation of a translation of a translation (etc.) of the original, and that fresh errors were introduced in each stage of the process. College courses often undermine the authority of the Bible by falsely claiming that the Old Testament is merely a derivative of earlier Babylonian and Assyrian myths and law codes. People frequently say that the Bible is loaded with contradictions, but very few can think of any when asked. The few who can will usually mention the stock objections they were taught, like the two “contradictory” creation accounts in Genesis 1 and 2. It is a rare person who has personally examined the text to see if the alleged contradiction is really there.” –bible.org website

reply to post by OldThinker


Well, in the lab they engineered it of course...HOWEVER, they REPLICATED the same surroundings and characteristics we had on earth 4bil years ago. It's been proven, nature could have developed on its own according to that lab test and then develop further through evolution which has been proven a long time ago.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by OldThinker

 

Well, in the lab they engineered it of course...HOWEVER, they REPLICATED the same surroundings and characteristics we had on earth 4bil years ago. It's been proven, nature could have developed on its own according to that lab test and then develop further through evolution which has been proven a long time ago.

So they engineered it and replicated mother nature from 4 billion yrs ago? Which proved evolution a long time ago?

I'm sorry but that is the funniest set of words I've read in a while...come on now?

reply to post by OldThinker


your initial post to open this thread is made of simplistic statements, not related to any facts, and presented in an incoherent way.

as far as the bible, people these days tend to dismiss the 2000 year ago context in which it was written. those people lack any credibility with me.

[edit on 13-8-2010 by jimmyx]

reply to post by jimmyx


Hey tell Don Geronimo I said hi!

OT

Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by jimmyx

 

Hey tell Don Geronimo I said hi!

OT

interesting that you bring up that name...i used to listen to the "don and mike show" back a few years ago on the radio. they were entertaining fluff while i was driving.

Originally posted by wantsome
...
Hell the catholics wanted to exicute Galileo for sugesting the earth revolved around the sun and that was only 400 years ago...

I always liked G...

especially when he said, "“If the sun with all those planets moving around it can ripen the smallest bunch of grapes as if it has nothing else to do, why then should I doubt His power?”

CHEERS! altho its a bit early yet

reply to post by OldThinker

People frequently say that the Bible is loaded with contradictions, but very few can think of any when asked.

Reeeeeeeeeeally?

1) So he's both and switches personalities all the time? He's also a man of war yet never seems to show himself in that manner. I mean, S&G were destroyed by him over a few sins, yet all the "sinful" cities today are ok.

EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

2) LOOOOL!! So basically, they are one...but then again not, somehow. Clue: You can't be one if you're split up in a larger and smaller part!!

JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.

JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

3) Man first, then animals...oh wait, no...animals first, then man...oh wait...lol.

GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

4) Wisdom good, wisdom bad...what is it??

PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

1CO 1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."

5) The earth is not flat, you can't see "all kingdoms" at once, not even from space!!

MAT 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

6) So the snake messes it up for us humans and gets told to eat dirt for the rest of eternity...yet last I checked, that's now what they do.

GEN 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

7) Different Genesis accounts...plural gods?

Here is the order in the first (Genesis 1), the Priestly tradition:

Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!)
Day 3: Plants
Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.)
Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time)
Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did)

Note that there are "days," "evenings," and "mornings" before the Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as "Elohim," which is a plural, thus the literal translation, "the Gods." In this tale, the Gods seem satisfied with what they have done, saying after each step that "it was good."

The second one (Genesis 2), the Yahwist tradition, goes:

Earth and heavens (misty)
Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth)
Plants
Animals
Eve, the first woman (from Adam's rib)

8) Live or die? Make up your mind god!!

PSA 92:12: "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree."

ISA 57:1: "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart."

9) Jesus' last words...3 different versions all in one book. Super accurate, suuuuuuure!

MAT 27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."

LUK 23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

JOH 19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

10) You can see god...or not, depending on which part of the bible is true.

EXO 24:9,10; AMO 9:1; GEN 26:2; and JOH 14:9
God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (EXO 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (EXO 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (GEN 32:30)

God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (JOH 1:18)
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (EXO 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1TIM 6:16)

11) Judge or not?

1 Cor 2:15 "The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:" (NIV)

1 Cor 4:5 "Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God."

Source

There's a ton more...which isn't surprising the bible was written by MAN. And we all know how accurate we are. Sorry to burst your bubble, but accepting the bible as accurate is foolish, even if some historical facts are true in it. After all, other books mention historical facts too.

OT, I'm sorry to say this, but I'm a bit disappointed that you seem to question science a lot, but don't apply the same scrutiny to the bible and your beliefs. You can't seriously claim the bible is accurate and only filled with facts!! That would make you a BLIND believer. Apply the same scrutiny you apply to science when it comes to religion and see the light!

reply to post by jimmyx


Ya never know what OT's got in his hat



btw, the OP is a creative hypothesis, granted...but the data on varability is proven. OT's a marketer remember

reply to post by InfaRedMan

TD... you should know by now that many of these people need to refer to something else to tell you how they think or feel. Remember these people need a guide book to life otherwise they're lost little sheep!

So this is a bad thing? Huh!

Scotyd

Why do retards like you come on here, you are a complete waste of oxygen, so retarded and deluded and yet as you read this you sit there thinking that you're still right. Please please please get cancer just as you are a cancer to ATS and anyone of logic or reasoning ability.

Unbelievable.



[edit on 13-8-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by OldThinker

 

Well, in the lab they engineered it of course...HOWEVER, they REPLICATED the same surroundings and characteristics we had on earth 4bil years ago. It's been proven, nature could have developed on its own according to that lab test and then develop further through evolution which has been proven a long time ago.

So they engineered it and replicated mother nature from 4 billion yrs ago? Which proved evolution a long time ago?

I'm sorry but that is the funniest set of words I've read in a while...come on now?

I'm not exactly sure why you think that's funny, it's scientific fact and you can read numerous sources on the net. That's exactly what they did, sorry if it doesn't fit your world view....but as I said, it's a fact, and calling it "funny" won't change that

As for evolution, yes, it's a fact given that all the thousands of pieces of evidence we have point towards that single conclusion. Just like we KNOW the universe came from a tiny initial point thanks to the analysis of background radiation.

OT, if you wanna talk about science, I strongly suggest you read up on it more. I don't mean this as an offense, but you can't go "no way" each time someone presents you with a scientific FACT just because it's against your belief.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
OT, I'm sorry to say this, but I'm a bit disappointed that you seem to question science a lot, but don't apply the same scrutiny to the bible and your beliefs. You can't seriously claim the bible is accurate and only filled with facts!! That would make you a BLIND believer. Apply the same scrutiny you apply to science when it comes to religion and see the light!

You are entitled with your opinion...

I didn't see one contradiction of substance...of intent/of message.

I'm ready to bet the farm, you?

I'll stick with Shakespeare, who eventually realized....“I commend my soul into the hands of God, my creator, hoping and assuredly believing through the merits of Jesus Christ my Savior to be made partaker of life everlasting.”

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by InfaRedMan

 

TD... you should know by now that many of these people need to refer to something else to tell you how they think or feel. Remember these people need a guide book to life otherwise they're lost little sheep!

So this is a bad thing? Huh!

Only if they push their values on others who want to keep their freedom. Wanna be religious, fine, you have to right to happiness...but leave the rest of us alone and don't try to preach, or otherwise push your values upon us.

If I wanna abort a child after being raped, that should be my RIGHT! If I want a damn microchip implanted because it prevents me from having to go to the hospital twice a week, but now I can't because some idiots outlawed those "mark of the beast" devices, I get ANGRY. If people buy giant billboards with "Evolution: If we came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys? BUSTED!" I get ANGRY because they are DUMBING down the population.

Originally posted by OldThinker

I didn't see one contradiction of substance...of intent/of message.

I'm ready to bet the farm, you?

Well, I guess closing your eyes from all evidence is also a way to live your life. I posted over 10 (!!!) contradictions, all of them very relevant to Christians. I mean, the story about how we were created is DIFFERENT in the same book. There's talk about day/night before the sun was created...how can there be day/night without sun??? You couldn't distinguish between them.

Those are SEVERE contradictions. I'm afraid those facts won't change your mind though, you are so brainwashed that you refuse to look at reality and facts. Your "I don't see any contradiction of substance" post clearly proves that.

OT: There are no contradictions!
MrXYZ: Here's 10 of them, all relevant to how we supposedly were created or how we should live our lives according to the Bible.
OT: There are no contradictions!
MrXYZ: CAN YOU READ??? Or are you just a blind sheep not looking at reality and facts if they contradict your belief??

OT, it's time you make up your mind. Are you rational, logical, and able to accept scientific facts if they contradict with your belief...or are you a blind sheep who follows scripture no matter how much they contradict scientific facts that have been proven beyond doubt??

Nothing wrong with being a blind sheep if it makes you happy and you don't bother anyone. Just don't accept others to follow the same irrational/illogical way...or to agree with your non-factual posts on ATS

Originally posted by Indellkoffer
The universe has been around for 14 billion years. We have only seen our planetary neighborhood.

How do you know there's not other life forms and civilizations out there? Most scientists think there were (and some say that many millions of them could be alive and thriving right now.

Actually only what we can see is 14 billion years old. they estimate the actual universe to be much bigger than this..

[edit on 13-8-2010 by GerhardSA]

reply to post by MrXYZ


I'll address um sometime today/tomorrow...

Patience my son, btw, you been drinking today?

OT