‘Variability’ % proves God is the SPECIAL CAUSE, skeptics, why are you ignoring?

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by MrXYZ
...
Whatever people believe, I strongly suggest going to science websites (PURE SCIENCE, not science sites with an agenda) if you're looking for sources to discuss science. In return, if you wanna discuss religious scriptures and things, going to a religious website is probably better.....

Here's a concept that you may not know....


In fact it's from the Bible....

TRUTH IS TRUTH.....

Well, truth is truth...true. You're just a lot less likely to find scientific truth and facts on a "religious science site" that obviously has an agenda that prevents them from being unbiased (which is the cornerstone of proper science). Do I really have to point out the obvious scientific flaws in the articles of the religious science website you posted?

The fact that some scientists are religious isn't surprising, they're people after all. Some of the scientists you quoted don't even work in fields that would qualify to them to comment on certain things...or they said those things dozens/hundreds of years ago.

For example, scientists have recreated life in the lab just with base elements and electricity (lightning). So now we know it is theoretically possible to create cellular life just from base elements with the help of electricity. Just one year ago, we didn't know that! Just think how that changes our perception about where we came from!

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by OldThinker

“Wow OT, I never thought about it that way…so are you saying the Bible is true?”

“Yep it is the only mathematical probability.”

Assuming that creationism is a mathematical likelihood, how then do you jump to the assumption that the bible is the accurate truth

How about Bible Reliability in the Manuscripts?

see: www.equip.org...

excerpt:

You cut off my question half way and therefore didn't address it properly. I'm also not interested in cut and paste from apologist websites. I want you to answer in your own words so I can be assured you can understand and address the concepts you introduce to this board.

The question is as follows:

Assuming that creationism is a mathematical likelihood, how then do you jump to the assumption that the bible is the accurate truth and not, say, any of the other scores of creation accounts from around the world?

I don't care to know your cut & paste case for your personal feelings about the bible nor how precise you feel it to be. I want to know how you can be assured that it, compared to the other creationist accounts, is the accurate one. Or have you even studied the other creationist accounts? Did you even know there were others?

reply to post by MrXYZ

electricity huh, that kinda neat. plane coming in now, gotta go. do you have a link, study i can view?

www.wired.com...

pretty big stuff.

Originally posted by OldThinker
“You see if RANDOMNESS created intelligent life here, it should create it 94% of the time EVERYWHERE.”

and life is pretty much everywhere

in freezing temperatures, in burning tempuratures, where there is blinding light 24/7, where there is no light, life has found it's way into every place where there is somehow a way to survive, and it has found that way

are you trying to bring the beleif god into the equation?

The way I see it is. The fact is life has happend in the universe we are proof. With all the other stars in the universe odds are it has happend again. If not it would be one big waste of space.

We know how solar systems form we've seen it. Our solar system is no different then the countless trillons out there. For mankind to conceed and belive the universe was created just for him is nieve. But one shouldn't be suprised of this type of thinking after all mankind thought the universe revolved around him for years.

Hell the catholics wanted to exicute Galileo for sugesting the earth revolved around the sun and that was only 400 years ago.

If there is a god he left no proof of his exsistance other then hearsay. I am an atheist but that don't mean I like it. I hope there is a god but I can't bring myself to believe in something so illogical as religon.

Religous people like to think we (mankind) are special and that everything has a purpose. The fact is we share this planet with many other creatures and just because we are the most intellagent don't mean much. For all we know we could be parasites on a planet like fleas on a dog. I've seen dogs with more intellagence then people. All I have to do is watch the nightly news.

Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by Indellkoffer

 

Voyager is waaaaaayyy out there....

what has it seen?

Not much....

related to intelligent life....

OT

PS: Thanks for stopping by, how'd you like the music video...

Voyager hasn't even left our solar system

Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

electricity huh, that kinda neat. plane coming in now, gotta go. do you have a link, study i can view?

Someone already posted the Wired article regarding lightning and the creation of life right after your request. Either way, I'm pretty sure I've already posted that link in one of your other threads, but I might be mixing you up with Randy

Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by Indellkoffer

 

Voyager is waaaaaayyy out there....

what has it seen?

Not much....

Voyager is not "way out there."

Voyager is 0.002 of a light-year from the Sun. That's 113 AUs (113 x the distance from Earth to the Sun), almost three times the distance to Pluto.

In other words, it's still in the back yard. In 40,000 years, it'll be 17 light years away, just passing by that weird kid's house down the street.

Translation: Unless some aliens are cruising right past it in a space-sports car, it's not going to notice them.

Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

So glad you stopped by...great post!

Question: is it logical to think an all powerful, all-knowing entity could preserve its message if it desired?

Answer: It is logical to assume that if an entity is all knowing and all powerful, it could do what it wants, up to and including the preservation of its message.

The question then becomes if an all powerful all knowing entity wanted to preserve its message, why would it hide that very message from the entites it created? Why would an all powerful all knowing entity tolerate the entities it created to skew that message into something so completely off topic of the origional message? What would the point be in that. A test to see if the entities it created can learn, adapt and accept things they cannot possibly see or have proof of?

To adequately answer your question, we need to know the answer to the message that was intended. To know the answer, we need to know what the exact question is. To know the exact question, we need to understand the intent of our creation and what is expected of us.

In the end, its all supposition by humans who are interpreting the origional message. In this case, we dont knwo what the message is, we dont know what the intent is by creating us, and we dont know what is expected of us.

In essence the question asked cannot be answered.

So in the end, we are back to Faith, evidence of things unseen. We are meant to face the world in our own way, and to leave our mark on the world, no matter what your background or beleifs are, in hopes of leaving it a little bit better than we found it.

Maybe that is our saving grace, and test all at the same time: Not knowing what the question is allows us to find our own answers, to explore our own humanity and place in this world / universe, and to get from it what we put into it.

Only through trial and error do we find the right question to ask.

Only through questions do we find a quest for the answers.

And only through answers do we find our place in the Universe.

In the grand scheme, we are all individuals linked to a common cause. The sooner people realize, no matter what their beleif, that we are all in the same boat, in the same ocean of infinity, will we make progress towards the answer.

We are on a timeline of exploration I agree... To borrow a quote from a great tv series:

'Cause it's next. 'Cause we came out of the cave, and we looked over the hill and we saw fire; and we crossed the ocean and we pioneered the west, and we took to the sky. The history of man is hung on a timeline of exploration and this is what's next. "


[edit on 12-8-2010 by Xcathdra]

What one knows,and knowledge,are not the same thing.

I "Know",nothing,and I am very comfy here.

Humans have this need to know,and in the short time they have,they waste too much time chasing knowledge.

It's all meaningless,and if it were more widely realised,the world would be a much nicer place to live in..

reply to post by dbates
Everything on this planet formed out of the need to attain "equilibrium".

second line.

reply to post by OldThinker


Prove you wrong? No, I'd rather you prove yourself to be correct. Throwing out random "Aren't I enlightened" phrases doesn't really do the trick. So. Lay it out for me. What are you getting at and what evidence do you have behind your hypothesis, both for and against?

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

The question is as follows:

Assuming that creationism is a mathematical likelihood, how then do you jump to the assumption that the bible is the accurate truth and not, say, any of the other scores of creation accounts from around the world?

I don't care to know your cut & paste case for your personal feelings about the bible nor how precise you feel it to be. I want to know how you can be assured that it, compared to the other creationist accounts, is the accurate one. Or have you even studied the other creationist accounts? Did you even know there were others?

TD... you should know by now that many of these people need to refer to something else to tell you how they think or feel. Remember these people need a guide book to life otherwise they're lost little sheep!

IRM :shk:

reply to post by OldThinker


Why do retards like you come on here, you are a complete waste of oxygen, so retarded and deluded and yet as you read this you sit there thinking that you're still right. Please please please get cancer just as you are a cancer to ATS and anyone of logic or reasoning ability.

I have the ridiculous individual posts of Sir Old, Thumper of Bibles blocked, but is there any way I can block these asinine threads from appearing in the Recent Posts area?

Originally posted by scottyb
Why do retards like you come on here, you are a complete waste of oxygen, so retarded and deluded and yet as you read this you sit there thinking that you're still right. Please please please get cancer just as you are a cancer to ATS and anyone of logic or reasoning ability.

and...

Originally posted by Magnivea
I have the ridiculous individual posts of Sir Old, Thumper of Bibles blocked, but is there any way I can block these asinine threads from appearing in the Recent Posts area?

Such abusive responses are not necessary no matter how one feels about the OP or their posts.

This is what is becoming wrong with ATS these days folks.

Plus, you don't have to read or post in these threads if you don't like them.

You have all the power to control your actions. Please do so.

*Apologies to everyone else for going off topic.

[edit on 13-8-2010 by Tayesin]

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


For one thing, that kind of technical information isn't the point of the Bible, or it would be far larger than the IRS code, which tell us relatively nothing but occupies a good sized library. For another thing, the ratios of similar DNA requires us to believe that you know what you're talking about, which is a shaky assumption at best. Are you a biochemist? Have you carried out the necessary lab tests yourself, or just how did you arrive at this? Okay, we'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that, but why does the existence of a fairly small amount of identical DNA sequences between species mean that one evolved from another? The human body is 90% water, so would you claim that we evolved from a pond, with which it has more in common, or would you say that pencils evolved from pine trees? While it is fairly obvious that life forms have a lot of things in common, the Bible is about the Kingdom of God, the spiritual realm that exists just beyond the veil of the physical universe. The Bible wasn't meant to be a complete reference encyclopedia for such trivia.

Originally posted by Tayesin

Originally posted by scottyb
Why do retards like you come on here, you are a complete waste of oxygen, so retarded and deluded and yet as you read this you sit there thinking that you're still right. Please please please get cancer just as you are a cancer to ATS and anyone of logic or reasoning ability.

and...

Originally posted by Magnivea
I have the ridiculous individual posts of Sir Old, Thumper of Bibles blocked, but is there any way I can block these asinine threads from appearing in the Recent Posts area?

Such abusive responses are not necessary no matter how one feels about the OP or their posts.

This is what is becoming wrong with ATS these days folks.

Plus, you don't have to read or post in these threads if you don't like them.

You have all the power to control your actions. Please do so.

*Apologies to everyone else for going off topic.

[edit on 13-8-2010 by Tayesin]

Thank you T!

And btw, rude skeptics, you'll not see OT act as many of you have...

And the fellow who said he 'ignored' me, must really have not

I am here to get you to think, to get out of your safe-intellectual-haven you've deluded yourself into...because contrary to conventional wisdom, your belief doesn't determine your behavior, its the OTHER WAY AROUND. OT is a slave to nothing...marinate on that! And I'll help you join me in peace if you want.

Also to the mod that gave me an applause, I say thank you!

OOOOOT

PS: T and I don't always agree, if fact we probably have disagreed 8 out of 10 times, over the yrs...yet he chooses to come to my aid...and many of you hide with sarcasm....hmmm? I believe the approach is working.

I'm no different than Pascal, French philosopher and mathematician, who developed the modern theory of probability, who said of biblical authors

“I prefer to believe those writers who get their throats cut for what they write.” .....OT add....than those 20 somethings sitting in mom's basement spouting ignorance on ATS

Originally posted by cusanus
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

For one thing, that kind of technical information isn't the point of the Bible, or it would be far larger than the IRS code, which tell us relatively nothing but occupies a good sized library. For another thing, the ratios of similar DNA requires us to believe that you know what you're talking about, which is a shaky assumption at best. Are you a biochemist?

Touche!


Great point cusanus