EastCoastKid: By "gotcha" I mean "I understand what you mean"

Sorry. No caffeine is an ugly thing.

Bushes whole family own an Oil company no?

The war was not to save the iraq people or to find weapons of mass destruction. I feel for the familes who have lost in this pointless crusade (I believe Bushjr called it that in the beginning of the war). How can you defend a bunch of suits sat in the comfort of an office for sending people abroad to die for a hidden purpose???? If the purpose was honest and true then that is fair enough but the amount of evidence proofing this war was based on lies is unreal.

If US and britian cared about human suffering there are MUCH worse places they could liberate or save. IF they cared about weapons their are countries who are MUCH more of a threat then Iraq who themselves had almost no army. Iraq just happens to have oil in abundance.

Maybe saving people was the goal, and checking for WMDs a good idea. Oil was just a bonus........beleive that and you are the perfect self governing sheep they want you to be. A flock that can herd itself is a wonderful tool.

[edit on 18-6-2004 by 7th_Chakra]

Originally posted by Indy
EastCoastKid: By "gotcha" I mean "I understand what you mean"

Sorry. No caffeine is an ugly thing.

Gotcha! Now go get some coffee!

Tell ya what EastCostKID (Er, child)... why not get in touch with Barbara Streisand, Michael Moore and Al Franken(Stein) and you can all sit around a lunch table and trade soundbites since none of you fools are capable of backing up anything you say.

I have repeatedly asked you present some facts, some evidence to back up your claims... on this thread and many others. Each time you respond with more DNC soundbites, unsubstantiated at that, ad hominem attacks, and misdirection.

Now, I'm already anticipating your childish responses like, "Why don't you do your own research" or "You're seriously deluded" or perhaps you'll refer to me as a Bush "sycophant" or whatever, but you still won't be able to substantiate a single one of your claims. Now of course all of the other sheeple who simply hate Bush will follow right along behind you bleeting on command, but none of them will be able to provide one single peice of evidence to support their claims either. I'm not suprised though, Birds of a feather and what have you.

Please, in the future, don't bother responding to my posts unless you are prepared to do so with some supporting evidence. Until that time your pointless drivel rings hollow and will likely not warrant any attempt at debate.

You want facts. When was the end to major combat declared? Once we took control of the oil fields. Before we got Saddam. Before we found any WMD. We ran there as fast as we could and secured them well. We left Iraqi villages and even ourselves unprotected so we could get to the oil. If we provided half the protection for our convoys and the Iraqi villages as we did to those oil fields this war may have had half the casualties.

Where do you people come up with this crap? I've seen things with greater intelligence fall out of my dog's arse. Do you know why we secured the oilfields? Hmmmm? Apparently not. We secured them because that is how the Iraqis were to pay for their reconstruction! What!? Did you expect them to grow corn and wheat for export to pay for it? Maybe you thought they would start manufacturing cars to sell to the world? Their ENTIRE economy is built upon their oil exports.

Ok, so here comes the "It was all about the oil" crap. Fine! You show me where the US has benefitted one penny from Iraq's oil. JUST ONE STINKIN' PENNY! You made the claim, BACK IT UP! I you had even a slight inkling of a clue, you could be dangerous to other people. Right now you're only dangerous to yourself.

I'll tell you... one word... Haliburton. And of course that goes right back to Dick Cheney. How can you NOT think it is about the oil. So you are saying that our payment for the war will be oil. Well.. that makes it a war for oil. Not to mention the control of the oil fields after the war is over (whenever that is going to be). Far too many ties to oil to not call this a war for it.

Of course it is about oil. Thats the problem. No one wants to admit it.

Iraq's largest customer is Japan. Shut off Japanese oil and the world economy shuts down.

If some mullah with a third grade education takes power or Saddam stayed, they could choke off the west.

As for Halliburton, well, name any other company that has resources that can feed, house, train and protect the troops while rebuilding pipelines and medical clinics?

I'm waiting!

Originally posted by kozmo
Tell ya what EastCostKID (Er, child)...

Grow up.

why not get in touch with Barbara Streisand, Michael Moore and Al Franken(Stein) and you can all sit around a lunch table and trade soundbites since none of you fools are capable of backing up anything you say.

You've not been around here long enough to make that assertion. Try not to be so ignorant.

I have repeatedly asked you present some facts, some evidence to back up your claims... on this thread and many others.

As I said before, I'll not do your homework for you. If you cannot run a simple google search, or spend a little while doing some research, then you can stay in the dark. Everything I've heard you say is regurgitated propaganda. You might want to get in touch with your own thinking and language. Perhaps then you would be somewhat credible.

Each time you respond with more DNC soundbites, unsubstantiated at that, ad hominem attacks, and misdirection.

Sorry, you have no idea how ridiculous that is. Let me explain something to you, one can be a conservative Republican and not agree with this administration. There are PALEO-Conservatives, such as myself and there are NEO Conservatives. DIFFERENT thing altogether. You silly NEO CONS don't even understand your own LIBERAL Straussian beginnings. If I were you, I'd go do ALOT of research. You really should.

Now, I'm already anticipating your childish responses like, "Why don't you do your own research" or "You're seriously deluded" or perhaps you'll refer to me as a Bush "sycophant" or whatever, but you still won't be able to substantiate a single one of your claims. Now of course all of the other sheeple who simply hate Bush will follow right along behind you bleeting on command, but none of them will be able to provide one single peice of evidence to support their claims either. I'm not suprised though, Birds of a feather and what have you.

As we used to say in the Army, "Waaaah." Go cry somewhere else.

Please, in the future, don't bother responding to my posts unless you are prepared to do so with some supporting evidence. Until that time your pointless drivel rings hollow and will likely not warrant any attempt at debate.

If you can't stand the heat, get outta the kitchen.

Stop sniping at each other.
Now.

Discuss the issue at hand.
Don't bandy insults about.

Since this post was born of opinion and remains unsubstantiated by cogent, well-reasoned logic, there is really nothing left to discuss on this thread.

Reader's Digest version:

EastCoastKid thinks the whole war in Iraq is because of oil, I disagree... end of dialogue.

I am done with this thread.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
we invaded Iraq because OPEC was getting close to changing their oil currency to the Euro.

I agree with this statement. Saddam was dealing in Euro's for a couple of years. Everyone laughed at first. Then they noticed he was making it work. Then other countries began to consider the same.

Then the most recent war, and massive influx of USD.

Consider the outcome if the Euro became En Vogue?!

[edit on 18-6-2004 by smirkley]

The planets oil reserves are diminishing, I do not believe anyone can refute that fact. China wants a greater share of that oil as do numerous 3rd world countries. As the US has the largest and most powerful military in the world, the military can be used to prevent these other governments from getting the oil for a time which is what is being done in Iraq.

So given this given this situation, I would like the supporters of the war in Iraq to tell me how many american lives are you willing to sacrifice and how many of the 3rd worlds people are you willing to murder to maintain the price of oil at $30 per barrel so americans can drive SUVs and other gas guzzlers for a few more years.

It is really that simple.
.

This is my opinion on Iraq. I dont have any links. It's just the way my mind sees it.

Cheap oil is becoming hard to find because supply is outstripping the demand for known reserves. Iraq is the country that sits above the 2nd largest reserves known. The U.S. uses about 25% of the oil that is pumped out of the ground each day. Americans love being materialistic, SUVs, fast cars, money, power, fast women, good food, flashy lifestyles. We trash more each day than 3rd world populations consume per capita. These are all facts.

Now we took over Iraq and we will stay there from now on or at least until the oil is gone. It really doesn't matter why we went there. Were there.

This will assure the American public will continue in the lifestyle that we have become accustomed to by effectively guaranteeing the oil fields of Iraq will be available to Americans when push comes to shove in about 10 years or so after oil prices skyrocket due to the lack of supply, because of countries like China and India that are developing at a fast rate, (more chinese owning cars using more oil per capita etc...) and the supply remaining the same.

When push does come to shove and it will, The U.S. will have the oil in Iraq, not Germany, not France, not China, not India, or any other country except the U.K. and I wouldn't bet on that. That's just the way it is. The big dog on the block always gets what he wants. The U.S. is the biggest dog on the block in Iraq right now and I dont see that changing.

This is why the U.S. is in Iraq now and will not leave no matter how bad it gets. To assure Americas' future supply of cheap oil and therefore securing the stability of the powers that be and their Skull and Bones rich buddies by passifying Joe Public by having cheaper oil. It wont be as cheap as it is now for Americans but it will be cheaper than it is in other countries if they can get it just like today where gas is cheaper here than the U.K. or most other places.

I dont think the U.S. will give the oil back to the Iraqi people and if they do it wont be forever, maybe the money it makes but not the oil, that will be under American control. OPEC wouldn't even be in the big long term picture as far as Iraq goes, maybe the short term picture, within the next ten years or so. The U.S. government takes what it wants. Just ask any Native American you meet.

I just dont see the oil boys in the White House giving it up. Could this be the reason or am I drinking too much coffee :-)

You couldn't be asny more correct TexasConspiracyNut. This is so true. It is not the end od oil, but cheap oil. You clould not have said it any different for me to agree..

Three reasons for invading and occupying Iraq:

1. In 2000 Saddam Hussein switched his trading currency to the Euro. Between that time and the invasion, the Euro surprisingly gained against the dollar and he came out the big winner. OPEC was seriously considering following suit. Anyone who knows anything about the US economy knows, if OPEC switched, all the bills would come due and our economy would crash. Our big catch 22. So we had to control OPEC. The bonus for the oil barrons in taking over Iraq is that we would be in position to control Saudi oil fields as well. Note the continuing and escalating unrest in the Kingdom. Things ain't lookin good for the House of Saud. We may see our forces in the not so distant future moving south to "protect" our interests there as well.

2. Controlling the oil and rebuilding of the infrastructure. China and Russia are getting hungrier and hungrier for cheap oil also. As long as we control Mesopotamia, we remain in control.

3. As long as we're in Iraq, we have a central staging area in the mid-east.

4. We have removed Saddam, one of Israel's biggest enemies.

The mainstream media won't touch this subject with a 10-foot pole. Try putting it into a soundbite for the masses to understand - good luck!
If the people understood the ramifications of this it could cause panic or a serious demand to change our suicidal oil policies in favor of getting serious about alternative forms of fuel - displacing the oil barrons from power.

Originally posted by df1
So given this given this situation, I would like the supporters of the war in Iraq to tell me how many american lives are you willing to sacrifice and how many of the 3rd worlds people are you willing to murder to maintain the price of oil at $30 per barrel so americans can drive SUVs and other gas guzzlers for a few more years.

It is really that simple.
.

No more than 2500 Americans.

No less than a couple million moslem fundamentalists.