Would you Submit to the Sharia Law regarding Al-Ribā?

Originally posted by muftanan
reply to post by greenfruit

 

Whoa, you fought a war for 1400 years?!

Must be exhausting.

No but many generations before our comfortable apathy based lives have never forgotten how devastating Islam can be and have never forgotten this fact.

No I would not submit to any part of Sharia law because it would be a case of "well you accepted this part of how about this? then this then this"

Before you know it the entire Sharia law system would be implamented.

No matter how you try and cut it you cannot pick and chose from Islam or Sharia it is an all or die propisition.

I can with 100% certanty say that if any type of Sharia law where to be forced/adopted on a given populace the unbeivelers will be the first to die along with many if not all our current freedoms and human rights.

Originally posted by Sri Oracle
Have any of you taken the time to read up on Al-Riba?

Or do you just hear Sharia and yell, "NO!".

This thread is not to discuss Sharia in full, but to look at the element of Sharia which deals with the concept of Al-Riba.

Can any of you explain Al-Riba to our audience and explain why it is unjust?

Sri Oracle

Yeah! You should all know how good it is to be tickled like this, before you're bummed and poopersnaked.

You fools!!

Heyy Lucy, put your fanciest hijab on, I've got some stoning to doo..

Originally posted by debris765nju
NOBODY wants a stranger in their house when they are pushy, aggressive and domineering........not even you.

Look...

I was born in the US and raised ROMAN CATHOLIC. Your comments are off topic and ad hominem.

Please come here to debate the finer points of Sharia regarding Al-Ribā. Or go away.

Sri Oracle

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
So to me functioning financial system that allows economical growth and does not use interest -sounds interesting.

I understood that the Jewish religion had a similar tenet where interest could not be charged to a person of the Jewish faith (but Gentiles are fair game!)

Is this not the case? Do banks in Israel charge interest(usury)?

reply to post by Sri Oracle


I would never submit to sharia under any circumstances.

Working for cash....walking away from debt....
under SOME circumstances, someone MAY need to declare bankruptcy but just walking away ???? How selfish !

What if everyone did what you did???? Obviously it would lead to complete economic collapse so what you've knowingly done is force the burden of YOUR debt on others. You should be treated just like an ILLEGAL immigrant SHOULD be treated.

Originally posted by Sri Oracle
Have any of you taken the time to read up on Al-Riba?

Or do you just hear Sharia and yell, "NO!".

This thread is not to discuss Sharia in full, but to look at the element of Sharia which deals with the concept of Al-Riba.

Can any of you explain Al-Riba to our audience and explain why it is unjust?

Sri Oracle

Yes. I'll scream "NO!" I see your point with Al-Riba. Fine, but calling 'some of the other laws/edicts sketchy' is like calling Jeffrey Dahmer 'a little off'.

The unjust, cruel, and downright monsterous aspects of Sharia law far outweigh the benefits of Al-Riba.

Which is rather part of the point, with Sharia law, the public doesn't get to cherry pick what aspects they'll keep or throw out. The Mullah's may (and often situationally do), but not the rest of the public, and it is a total package. All or nothing.

If you think can tolerate public be-heading/stoning/limb amputation in order to have banking reform too, then more power to you... I guess.

Not me. I won't exchange one form of tyranny for another.

Originally posted by redhorse

Not me. I won't exchange one form of tyranny for another.

Stoning women aside, what specifically do you find tyrannical about Islam's injunctions against usury?

Can you claim to "deny ignorance" while watching your country be overrun by banking cartel... yet at the same time refusing to even investigate what other nations have done to protect themselves... simply because of your ethnocentric ideals regarding their greater cultural system?



[edit on 31-7-2010 by Sri Oracle]

Originally posted by redhorse
Which is rather part of the point, with Sharia law, the public doesn't get to cherry pick what aspects they'll keep or throw out.

My OP stated that if you were forced to live under Sharia...

You had no choice... move forward past the "other" evils...

NOW:

Would the elements of Sharia regarding riba offend you? Would they protect you? Would you be grateful for the banking reform? Can you even explain to the rest of us what it would be like to obtain a mortgage in Iran? Or are you still so stuck in an indoctrinated hatred of Sharia that you cannot even appreciate aspects which could be modelled within your own state, for your (the people's) benefit?

Sri Oracle

[edit on 31-7-2010 by Sri Oracle]

reply to post by Sri Oracle


What you're suggesting is that it's ok to play poker with the devil as long as you don't lose your soul after your last hand.

I don't think so. It doesn't work that way.

Originally posted by Sri Oracle

Originally posted by redhorse

Not me. I won't exchange one form of tyranny for another.

Stoning women aside, what specifically do you find tyrannical about Islam's injunctions against usury?

I have nothing against Islams's injunctions against usury. I gave you that point.

Originally posted by Sri OracleCan you claim to "deny ignorance" while watching your country be overrun by banking cartel... yet at the same time refusing to even investigate what other nations have done to protect themselves... simply because of your ethnocentric ideals regarding their greater cultural system?

[edit on 31-7-2010 by Sri Oracle]

I'm sorry, but I haven't refused to investigate it. You aren't talking about a greater cultural (or even strictly religious) system. You are talking about a severe, extreme, fairly recent, and frankly garbled interpretation of the Koran that is used to justify reimplementing very, very (predating the prophet) old, tribal traditions.

Once again... Sharia law doesn't let you cherry pick. You don't get to keep what you want and throw out the rest. You don't get to say 'stoning women aside', or 'amputation of limbs aside', or 'forced marriage aside'. There are fundamentals. Also, the interpretation and implementation of those fundamentals is left to a handful of men, who may very well interpret that marriage to a six year old girl and the consummation of it when she it nine is appropriate; (The prophet's marriage to Aisha.) This has happened.

Within Sharia fatwa's are frequent, often contradictory, and (in practice) unchallangeable by the general public. Most people are intimidated into obeying them (as best they can).

An implementation of that one aspect without adhering to 'Sharia Law' as a whole may be workable. A religious banking reform would be difficult however. The seperation of church and state is pretty fundamental (in the U.S.), and to my mind, Sharia law is a glaring example of why it should be so. Slippery slope you see. Religious banking reform--in theory... Great. In practice... That's another story.

I think that the five pillars of Islam are beautiful goals for any society. I ultimately feel that Islam is indeed a strong, idealistic, peaceful religion.

However, Sharia law however is an entirely different kettle of fish; it is using a perceived authority through god as a justification for implementing brutal, old, and generally tribal traditions by maintaining a religious tyranny. Ultimately it is a method for controlling the masses through intimidation, fear, and ignorance with a sacred bias.

Sharia law is not any more acceptable than banking cartels. In my opinion, considerably less so. Sharia law is not Islam. It is a method of control of the masses.

reply to post by redhorse


awesome posts !!!
The OP seems to be trying to ease us into the idea that sharia isn't as bad as we think.

Trying to separate parts of sharia is like trying to have a steak without killing the cow.

Wow, seriously? It's not just the Islamic faith who's against "riba" or "interest". Christianity as well is against it, Buddhism is against it etc.

I'd rather have one of those religions lead me if I had to have one at all. Islam is not for me and has no place in any civilized country. Especially Sharia.

I fully support the OP promoting Sharia No Riba proposition.

For those who support riba/interest, please read so you can be educated adequately.

Look for "I Want The Earth Plus 5%" entirely so you can open your eyes and understand how the interest system screw us and why no riba/no interest is good.

I want the Earth plus 5%

Since I am providing a service, that is, the money supply, I am entitled to payment for my work. Let us say that for every 100 pieces you obtain, you repay me 105 for every year that you owe the debt. The 5 will be my charge, and I shall call this charge interest.

reply to post by Sri Oracle

Its is interesting. I have seen you say that interest is unfair and that Al-Riba is the answer, yet those who argue that even with Al-Riba implemented, the Islamic Banking system just charges interest, but calling it a different name and you never responded to that. You just point out that when someone says "I will not submit to Sharia Law" they are in-fact ignorant and afraid.

If you'd like to debate about Al-Riba/Islamic Banking System, then you must actually debate about it.

Remember: The base word for "ignorance" is "ignore."

To answer your question:
If there was no profit or other interest (hence "interest") for a loaner to loan their money, then they would not loan their money. That's simple to understand right?

As for you defaulting on all of your debt...well you were never FORCED into taking the loans/credit, yet you did and defaulted. You have violated the contract and cheated the system that now everyone else has to pay for (in higher interest rates), because you have helped increase the risk of said loans.

If you were to do that under Al-Riba, then simply the Islamic Banks would charge more "profit" on the loan, because the risk is higher.

in the current state of affairs, you should fully expect more direct means of wealth redistribution than compound interest, ie. daylight robbery by armed force, i mean that's what happened in post-soviet-russia, didn't it?


maybe that would open peoples' eyes a bit.

Originally posted by Sri Oracle
IS PAYING YOUR MORTGAGE A SIN?

If Sharia Law came to my land, and I was "forced" to live under tenants prohibiting Al-Ribā. Although some of the other rules would indeed be sketchy, I would CERTAINLY be thankful for the religious banking reform.

[Too lazy to read through rest of thread].

Money is the root of all evil. Sharia law would be welcomed for the banking reforms as long as it doesn't infringe on people's right to life (no stoning to death), liberty (to fornicate) and pursuit of happiness (wine and song).

Originally posted by primus2012
Need to borrow some money from someone in order to buy the thing you want/need? Sign your name to that contract and you just gave your word. Breaking your word is the same as lying, cheating, or stealing in God's eyes. Talk about infidels. You don't need some sacred cleric to decipher that for you either. Even if you gave your word to an enemy, if you broke your word it is sinful.

You've hit the nail on the wood! While I tend to agree with `broken words being sinful, sin should be forgiven and that's part of being merciful. And that's why America has debt relief programs and bankruptcy for just these kinds of financial situations.

reply to post by muftanan


Are you a muslim?

reply to post by Frontkjemper


Kamerade,

These westerners that even entertain the concept of sharia in western culture are one or more of the below:

1. Brainwashed
2. Riddled with "white guilt" (i.e. evil european's are destroying the world)
3. Trying to re-invent the 60's "love is the answer" crap that gave us rampant divorce, communist college's, and VD.

Language, borders, culture!