Would you Submit to the Sharia Law regarding Al-Ribā?

Originally posted by debris765nju

Every element of Sharia is open to the interpretation of the individual, religious leader, tribe, or state.

Sharia is a path.

Please state your case in your own words rather then cut and pasting others ideas.

Um... those were my words. I edited them three times to arrive at those specific words.

Originally posted by slane69
Sharia law, perfect for those who cannot manage their own finances.
[]
What a crock of s&*t

If it makes a difference I was floating 1/3 million dollars like clockwork, with an 800 credit score, when I "kicked it to the curb"

Sri Oracle

[edit on 30-7-2010 by Sri Oracle]

double post


[edit on 30-7-2010 by Sri Oracle]

reply to post by De La Valletta


You've hit the nail right on the head! That was exactly the point I was trying to make about usury/interest. It's senseless and pretty much extortion (but with a different word).

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Lucidity, it is most certainly up to the people, but I think part of the problem is people's complacency. Today, many of us, whether we like it or not, are force into this interest-based system, and we cannot escape. People want independence, a nice home, a nice car, and some sense of financial security for their families. But, they can't have all of this. They end up borrowing from banks to get the things they want or need, and they end up as slaves of the flawed system, letting greedy corporations steal their money.

I agree, of course, no one can shove Sharia or any other system down people's throats, but Sharia has some basic principles that I believe can help us out of the economic crisis. The problem is, people hear Sharia, automatically think of backwards Saudi Arabian or Iranian laws, and close their minds. If they researched true Sharia economic principles, I think they would be open to some of them.

[edit on 30-7-2010 by muftanan]

reply to post by muftanan

Points taken, but my point is that no one has to abide by Sharia law to achieve this and couching it as such is just going to make a lot of people believe what they've been hearing is true. What this is describing is COMMON SENSE, which Shari law holds no copyright or patent for.

[edit on 7/30/2010 by ~Lucidity]

Originally posted by muftanan
Today, many of us, whether we like it or not, are force into this interest-based system, and we cannot escape.
[]
They end up borrowing from banks to get the things they want or need, and they end up as slaves of the flawed system, letting greedy corporations steal their money.
[]
Sharia has some basic principles that I believe can help us out of the economic crisis.
[]
If they researched true Sharia economic principles, I think they would be open to some of them.

well put... now we're on subject.

Are there any principles of Al-Ribā, in particular, which, you feel would benefit the people of the US, if congress were to remodel our banking system to be moreso in accordance?

Sri Oracle



[edit on 30-7-2010 by Sri Oracle]

reply to post by Sri Oracle

Would you Submit to the Sharia Law of Al-Ribā?

Free thinking ethical individuals do not submit to any laws. With reason, we can comply because we agree with the law, because we wish to protect against prosecution or because there is little alternative, such as with the finance systems.

I think usury systems are immoral. The recent bail out of the banks disclosed the global puppets and the puppet masters. Were the representative governments acting on behalf of their electorates, they might have demanded all interest due on national debt be rescinded and interest for all bank 'customers' abolished within an agreed timeframe.

My concern with the premise of the OP is that if those who promote global sharia law seek to present Al-Riba as a viable alternative to current western banking practice and are successful in securing the majority, the implimentation of Al-Riba will quickly lead to the full implimentation of sharia in the west.

[edit on 30/7/2010 by teapot]

i dont like loans,and i dont like sharia law
need to say more,no

Originally posted by teapot
My concern with the premise of the OP is that if those who promote global sharia law seek to present Al-Riba as a viable alternative to current western banking practice and are successful in securing the majority, the implimentation of Al-Riba will quickly lead to the full implimentation of sharia in the west.

Something tells me the west will always be a melting pot. I don't expect adding a little Al-Riba spice is going to spoil the dinner.

We don't even have to call it "Al-Riba". Does it not seem that Al-Riba-like principles (of course, depending upon how they are enacted) do offer more protections to the people and the people's economy?

Sri Oracle

Originally posted by Stillalive
i dont like loans,and i dont like sharia law
need to say more,no

You're not getting away that easy.

What don't you like about loans?

Originally posted by Sri Oracle

Originally posted by teapot
My concern with the premise of the OP is that if those who promote global sharia law seek to present Al-Riba as a viable alternative to current western banking practice and are successful in securing the majority, the implimentation of Al-Riba will quickly lead to the full implimentation of sharia in the west.

Something tells me the west will always be a melting pot. I don't expect adding a little Al-Riba spice is going to spoil the dinner.

And innocuous comments like that will make the dish so much more paletable.

This westerner has made the conscious decision to eschew the services of the banks, is aware of the lure of the product but must nevertheless accept the inevitability of taxes. I simply do not need any other form of enslavement.

Originally posted by slane69
Sharia law, perfect for those who cannot manage their own finances.
[]
What a crock of s&*t

If it makes a difference I was floating 1/3 million dollars like clockwork, with an 800 credit score, when I "kicked it to the curb"

Sri Oracle

[edit on 30-7-2010 by Sri Oracle]

Floating 1/3 million dollars in mortgages (plural), credit cards (plural), and student loans (all in the plural)?,... sorry that isn't money management it's juggling. Nice try though.

[edit on 30-7-2010 by slane69]

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Ah, I see. Not trying to argue with you. I agree it is all about common sense. I just think that (real) Sharia agrees with common sense. I also agree that any change has to come from within. The people as a whole have to want to fix their system. No one can force an entirely new system on them.


reply to post by Sri Oracle


If I could easily answer this question, I would probably be the next President lol

Anyway, my main problem with the current system is interest (Riba). I would say prohibit interest (and Islamic/Sharia principles condemn dealing in interest as a major sin). I think that a society free of interest would greatly simplify banking on a personal level and also the global scale. I think this would be the most important benefit.

This would also put the spotlight back on creating goods and services we could offer to earn wealth, rather than using credit cards/loans to spend and spend on what we cannot afford.

Beyond that, encourage people to be charitable (to create a more even distribution of wealth), and have the government focus on using its wealth to help its people (infrastructure, education, social security etc) rather than funding senseless wars. This is basically what the Prophet and the first few caliphs had as their general policy regarding wealth. (I'm no scholar of Sharia or the economy, so my knowledge is somewhat limited).

The question arises, how does one implement such drastic changes? That, I cannot answer. But, it does have to come from within the people. They have to want a change, and make the choice to change their society. Nothing can be forced upon people.

By the way, I'm not sure if you got the exact definition of Riba. Riba is interest/usury. Sharia would definitely NOT implement Riba, it would ban it.

Originally posted by muftanan
By the way, I'm not sure if you got the exact definition of Riba. Riba is interest/usury. Sharia would definitely NOT implement Riba, it would ban it.

I'm with you... I'll go back and edit to alleviate any confusion. Sometimes I have trouble using religious terminology in proper context. I took the term to mean "prohibitions on usury" rather than simply "usury".

---------------------------

I've changed the title of the thread from:

Would you Submit to the Sharia Law of Al-Ribā?

to

Would you Submit to the Sharia Law regarding Al-Ribā?

--------------------------

Thanks for the heads up. Since you caught me there... is it "Al-Ribā" or just Ribā, and is it supposed to be capitalized?

Thanks,

Sri Oracle


[edit on 30-7-2010 by Sri Oracle]

This thread is a thinly veiled attempt to insert Church into State. Islamic church law is not a cure for usury, usuary used to be illegal until politicians sold us out to financial institutions...we need politicians to rectify those errors, not islamic sharia laws. Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion which is why we have a Constitution. There can be no comparison between IT and any religious organization with an agenda for world conquest by infiltration.

reply to post by Sri Oracle


I think it's usually just Riba. Adding the "Al" to make it "Al-Riba" makes it a proper noun. Riba=Interest (general concept) vs Al-Riba=the interest (specific--ex:the interest the bank received on a loan). I guess if you wanted, you can go either way, but Riba without "Al" seems a little more correct to me at least.

It really doesn't matter if you capitalize or not. The only reason I capitalize Riba is to clarify right away that it's not an English term (it's an Arabic term being transliterated), so people don't get confused. You could say riba if you wanted.

What ever happened to the separation of church and state? Is it non existant?
Sharia law is total culture, religion, law and politics all rolled into one bundle.

I just noticed above Debris said the same thing. Agreed.

[edit on 30-7-2010 by snowspirit]

reply to post by snowspirit


But if another system has principles that can benefit our society, why not look into it and use what is beneficial to construct our own laws. It doesn't mean we completely erase our current system and accept the other. We can take the best of both. The 10 commandments (and sharia) say that murder is wrong. Just because we have separation of church and state doesn't mean we go in the exact opposite direction and say murder is OK. We can use what is beneficial to us from any and all religions, cultures, etc. to formulate our own independent society, leaving what we don't like from other systems behind.

Originally posted by debris765nju
This thread is a thinly veiled attempt to insert Church into State.

If anything this thread is a thinly veiled attempt to help you learn how your state could operate in ways to benefit people with regard to banking by adhering to the type of banking laws used by Islamic states, which have been honed through thousand-year-old ethical, moral, and religious; ie. what is righteous, debate.

I am not looking to insert Church into State. I am looking to STUDY church so that I may benefit state.

In your studies into the Islamic principles regarding usury, can you see any instances in which "WE THE PEOPLE" could benefit through instituting such restrictions upon banking.

Sri Oracle




[edit on 30-7-2010 by Sri Oracle]

reply to post by muftanan


You wouldn't be able to call in anything like or in Sharia. So many aspects of Sharia aren't just law, they are their culture too. The biggest part of the banking system, in the US, was the lack of regulations. Which is like NO law for the bankers. No regulations of mortgages.
Would be nice if the best of all could be implemented, just too many people can't agree with each other. Like every different politician, and every different religion.

reply to post by Sri Oracle


An attempt by muslims to appeal to the west through economical reforms
in a time of economic unrest. You sure are determined to spread islam
by whatever means arnt you? Bring your troops home America, the real threat is within!