Will You Buy G.M's Electric Lemon?

There are a few facts you should know about the Volt

Yes it takes a standard 120 volt outlet but at a 30 amp load.
this means rewiring your garage.

What if you live in a apartment or have to park on the street you are out of luck.

Plus they are talking about a over night charge. Right 10 to 12 hours.

At ten hours every night at 30 amps your electric bill will be about $200 a month just for your car. and that would be on top of the $300 a month payments and $200 insurance.

Solar panels? yes you could charge the car with solar panels but only if you work at night.
And firefighters don't like it so its likely if you have a fire it will be destroyed.
Where are you going to find a mechanic. its not a car to work on your self and few mechanics know how.
I have worked on battery powered mine locomotives and would no try to repair a electric car without special training.

What is the volt.
Its a car for the rich tree huggers.
Let them work the bugs out of it and see how it sells.

I am betting that few tree huggers will buy them.
Does Al Gore need a car.

reply to post by whatukno


Now it is people here that destroyed the economy, I thought it was Bush?

You definitely need to get your story straight.

reply to post by endisnighe


I said HELPING destroy the economy.

Typical endisnighe, wrong about absolutely everything. :shk:

I am talking about people poo pooing an American company, employing AMERICAN workers because of their hatred for this administration.

Yes the Volt may not be the best idea that came out of GM, but it's not the only car they make. But what do I see in this thread? Hate for an American company because of business dealings with THIS administration.

Nice.

Way to screw over America y'all.

[edit on 7/31/2010 by whatukno]

reply to post by ANNED


Mr. Bean is a representative of us and Al Gore is visiting England.

I am amused by the ignorance concerning electrical vehicles as an energy saving and/or non-polluting reduced carbon footprint means of transportation. An electric vehicle will produce more carbon dioxide emissions and use more energy than its gasoline counterpart of the same size and weight. For example, let’s use our Hollywood activists impressing his friends with his overpriced electric vehicle powered by an electrical power plant burning coal on a Navajo Indian reservation in Arizona. For comparison purposes there are 115,000 Btu’s in a gallon of gasoline that will take a car of comparable size to the electric around 40 miles. Therefore a gasoline car will use 2875 Btu’s per mile. Meanwhile burning 115,000 btu’s of coal loses around 70% of its energy content in the conversion from coal to heat to steam to mechanical energy(generator) to electricity. (There’s a little problem called entropy where energy that does work creates losses in the form of lost heat, noise, friction, etc.) So of the original energy content we get 34,500 Btu’s of electricity. We’re not through yet because we lose another 5% warming bird’s feet in the power line going 1500 miles to Los Angeles. Then we convert the electrical energy to chemical energy (charging a battery) another 40% to 60% loss. Then we convert back to electricity to drive the wheel train another 10% minimum until we finally show up at the Oscars. So from the original 115,000 Btu’s of coal burned we probably get to utilize less than 15,000 Btu’s to actually move the vehicle. Assuming that the electric car also gets 40 miles to 115,000 btu’s we would have to burn about 900,000 Btu’s of coal to generate enough electricity to go the same distance as 1 gallon of gasoline. In short, the only accomplishment of the electric car is to move its emissions to Arizona rather than down town Los Angeles, make a Hollywood moron feel good and increase fossil fuel demand.

Originally posted by eldard
What I cannot understand is why would someone sign up to buy this in advance in the first place? I guess them hippies really can't think straight. Must be all those soy.

I thought that was idiotic also, anyone whom has bought a car before should know the huge amount of research and test drives that go into finding the right auto. I would never buy a new model of car in the first year it's out let alone pre-order one! I must have test driven a half-dozen different models before I decided on the car I have now.

I am not one to say that a nationalized company cannot do good work, but I will point out that it's difficult to do so and very easy to do an absolutely horrible job. Those of you in the United States have probably never had to deal with the terribly bad cars that were made by British Leyland. The company was in trouble before it was nationalized, but over the time in government control the build quality went from bad to worse, the model line up made no sense at all and many cars that should have been great were mucked up so horribly in design committee that they became pale shadows of what they should have been.

There are industries that can do well under nationalization I believe, but the automakers have been a lot more miss than hit on that. I'm still reserving my judgment on General Motors, although I will admit I've never been the biggest fan of them. I still remember my ex-girlfriend's old Vauxhall Chevette being about the worst car I've ever driven.

There are some good facts in this thread, but also a lot of speculation.

Here is some speculation of my own:

1. In spite of the GM Volt's limitations, it is going to sell like crazy. There will be a lot of back orders for this car.

2. The GM Volt will be a pleasure to drive, it will be very fast and problem free. Many customers will swear by the car.

3. Soon, GM will be highly lauded for this car. The company will be regarded as highly visionary. The competition will be scrambling to keep up.

4. The first issue of this car will be on the road for a long long time. The car will be highly robust. We will see these first Volt's on the road, even in 2030 and beyond.

I guess time will tell if I am right here. Although I could be completely wrong, I just wanted to inject some optimism into this thread, actually.

Edit: I guess a lot will depend upon how well the car is made, and how much fun it is to own and drive. At this point, we don't know that. GM is not always consistent, as many of us know.



[edit on 31-7-2010 by Axial Leader]

Nope. I am working on my own electric car. It will definately out perform the Volt. Will be closer to the Tesla Roadster, but with greater range.

To bad too. I use to be a huge fan of GM vehicles. Now most of the newest offerings suck. I am a larger person 6'4" and 250lbs, and the newer cars are just plain uncomfortable to drive.

I will not buy another new vehicle ... period.
But it is not for the reason mentioned here.
It is because of all the new gadgets on it.
The on-star system that can cut off
my ignition and actually prevent me
from using the vehicle if i am 2 days late
on a payment is too much control
IMO. But I'm not gonna allow my vehicle
to be turned into a drone that can be run
by somebody half way around the world
at the switch of a button.

And I think the electric car is NOT the way
to go. You can run your vehicle on H2O.
The public is falling again for a scheme
that will allow for control of ur fuel.
I'd rather fill up with my garden hose
than to wait 6 hrs for a re-charge.
You're just trading one evil for another
when you trade gas for electric.
Go H2O, no monopoly there !!!

Originally posted by boondock-saint
And I think the electric car is NOT the way
to go. You can run your vehicle on H2O.
The public is falling again for a scheme
that will allow for control of ur fuel.
I'd rather fill up with my garden hose
than to wait 6 hrs for a re-charge.
You're just trading one evil for another
when you trade gas for electric.
Go H2O, no monopoly there !!!

Thats why I am also building a wind/solar station at my home, no monopoly there except the one I play with my family on the kitchen table. But I agree, people are just traiding the oil barons for the electricity barons. I am still waiting for the water electrolysis and hydrogen fuel cell tech to become as afordable as the way that I am planning on going.

Originally posted by eldard
What I cannot understand is why would someone sign up to buy this in advance in the first place? I guess them hippies really can't think straight. Must be all those soy.

Many reasons. Novelty, the ability to afford one, or just to show how green and clean you are. I figure the very first off the line go to those with a heavy conscience...bono, dicaprio, algore, gates - those with log sized energy consumption exhaust pipes - in order of importance, or riches. I'd be surprised if the 10,000 production run didn't sell out fast. Lot's of people have feelings of low self-esteem.

The trouble is that if it's a POS, it will be hurriedly remelted/recycled, violating the tenets of carbon credit worship...but when did that matter?

reply to post by ANNED


The one advantage of the Volt is that the owner can leave the car unlocked at night. Nobody will steal it.

And if someone does try to steal the thing, they will need to buy an extra long extension chord. That's really problematic for car theifs. That thing called 'Gone in Sixty Seconds' is slowed down by having to go to the hardware store to purchase an extension chord.

Then once an auto theif gets the car started, he has to get out of the car, wind the extension chord back up.....Man, we're talking 'Gone in Five Minutes or More."

I think it is weird that so many people here are thinking / hoping that the Volt is going to fail. I mean -- it may be a complete POS -- but I owned a Camaro for years and it was a great car. I still own a Malibu beater -- another good car (but okay, not my favorite.)

I'm not prepared to sell GM short just yet.

How can anyone at this point?

Listen -- before you think I am just pimping for GM, I FRIGGEN HATE General Motors. The company should have died ignominiously. The executives should have been publicly humiliated (even more than they were) and hopefully jailed. I would have liked to see the GM slave masters experience slavery themselves, so they could know what it feels like to suffer the same abuses they heaped upon so many others.

Around the middle of last year, I swore I would never buy another GM car.

But I see something mildly redemptive in them finally looking forward, and trying to break ice on the future. Plus, I kind of like GM engineering. It is not bad, IMO, from personal experiences.

So -- I am hoping this Volt is a hit, and helps redefine automobile technology. It might happen.

[edit on 31-7-2010 by Axial Leader]

So, I have a question for everyone.

What is the definition of government owned production?

Nationalization of production is the state socialization of production.

I actually own a Chevy Colorado. I USE to like General Motors. Now that it has become Government Motors, I believe it is my duty to no longer support them.

Sorry, the government BROKE THE LAW when it stole GM. It broke bankruptcy law when it seized the company and decided to give stock to the union and screw over the debt holders and the shareholders of the company.

Remember when the stock market tanked and YOUR 401k's all but disappeared? If you had shares in several different packages or outright shares in GM, the government STOLE from you to give their union buddies the company.

Nice of them wasn't it. The government decides what laws to follow and what laws to throw out the window.

So in conclusion, I will support Ford Motors for now on because it is my duty as an AMERICAN to do so.

Unless of course you want a Communist Nation headed by the progressive/communist party apparatchik.

I would never buy any product from any company controlled by the government. Especially from this communist government we have now. Not one dollar.

reply to post by jibeho


I wouldn't be surprised if GM attempted at a electric car bombed forcing the company to to accept more bail out money . The lesson from Japan in the 90's was that people won't buy an electric car just because of what it is . By the time you factor in the cost of electricity and the method it was generated the picture doesn't look so rosy .

Cheers xpert11 .

I am ready to get back to large engines and gass gusling machines. All thses space ship looking greenie green cars are silly and just another gimmick to make a buck. We have enough coal and oil to last thousands of years maybe more lets use what God gave us.

Originally posted by humbleseeker
I am ready to get back to large engines and gass gusling machines. All thses space ship looking greenie green cars are silly and just another gimmick to make a buck. We have enough coal and oil to last thousands of years maybe more lets use what God gave us.

Then you would love my truck. It is a bobbed 1974 AMGen M35A2 Deuce and a half, with a custom made Pick-up bed on it. It has a old smokey Continental Straight 8 Multifuel diesel that seems to get about 2 gallon to the mile. Hell of a truck though. About 58 MPH wide open in high, but it seems like it could do it up a tree. (if you could get enough traction) And ya CANT stick the damn thing when off-roading. (Desert, mud, rock, woods, doesn't matter) I love my Gass Guzzler!! I am useing it to haul parts for my Electric Car. Hows that for Hipocrisy!!!

[edit on 7/31/2010 by Ghost of Chewie]

I just love how this thing is being promoted all of a sudden as the way of the future..... As if Electric cars have not been made until just now....

The price of the thing too... Silly....

Yeah, hey, we have this great new electric car, but we are going to put it out of the price range of most of the middle class.... Genius


It's an electric car.... Great, wonderful... Nothing new, nothing exciting... The only thing that is different is this sudden little push away from oil.... If you can even call it a push....

The hybrid's on the market today are a better price and may end up more economical, but this is a plug-in that's going to be released in as early as 6 months. I thought I'd draw up some comparison's of the scheduled all electric compared to the Volt. I'll leave it up to you to decide whether or not it's a 'lemon'.

Comparison's:

Chevy Volt via Wikipedia
Tesla Model S via Wikipedia
Nissan Leaf via Wikipedia

Cost:
Chevy Volt: $41,000
Tesla Model S: $57,400
Nissan Leaf: $32,780

Driving Distance (single charge):
Chevy Volt: 40 miles(+ ~300 miles on a full tank of gas)
Tesla Model S: 160-300 miles
Nissan Leaf: 62-138 miles

Charge time (120v/220v):
Chevy Volt: 10 hours/4 hours
Tesla Model S: 45 min with a 480v circuit
Nissan Leaf: 20 hours/8 hours

Top Speed:
Chevy Volt: 100 MPH
Tesla Model S: 120 MPH
Nissan Leaf: 87 MPH

Will I have to convert my standard 120v/240v outlet in my garage to charge my car?

Probably not, the Volt and the Leaf appear to be charged from standard outlets, but the Model S will need something extra.

Is the Volt a hybrid or an electric?
Both. It runs for 40 miles on a full electric charge, after that it switches to a gas GENERATOR, not engine, for an extended 300 miles.

What's so different about it?
It's not a 'standard' hybrid like the Prius or the Insight and it's not a full electric like the Leaf or the Model S. It's a plug-in hybrid.

Notes: I considered adding the Prius and Insight because the Volt more closely matches those as far as 'hybrids' go. However, both are likely to be made into plug-in hybrids and I'd rather stick with the electrics anyway.