ATS and Mental Illness

I don't believe in mental illness per se.

I honestly think everyone is 100% crazy, including myself.

Hell I KNOW we are.

No matter what you think. You are a lunatic in reality.

Why? Because NONE of us know the true reality of the universe.

In the end, it doesn't matter. Just go have fun in life.

Let go of your baggage.

reply to post by Xcalibur254


It shouldn't compltely discredit him at all, that is not what I am saying. But what I'm saying is that I will not accept being told whether or not I am sane by that persons definition. Lets face it, its a subjective judgement. But what if the person judging is a nutjob? Are their conclusions still valid? Why can't I label them insane? I have just as much of a right as they do.

Note to Mods - please DO NOT EVER ban people just because they have been diagnosed with a mental illness.

First, I totally disagree with Kevin mentally ill people should be banned/shunned and not talked to about their beliefs. I know of no study which would show a benefit to this action. If someone did happen to have a break-down after posting, they may have been headed that way anyway.

As for moderating people, what’s the point of that? Besides, I haven’t read anything yet on ATS which encouraged a person to stop taking their meds or to harm themselves.

The average person thinks delusional disorder means someone is totally out of it. Not true, you can be labeled with this disorder because a shrink doesn’t believe it’s true.

So if you tell a shrink you have out of body experiences when you meditate - and they don’t believe in stuff like that - you could very well be labeled crazy. EVEN IF YOU FUNCTION NORALLY IN YOUR LIFE.

So basically if a shrink doesn’t believe what you tell them, then you can and usually are labeled mentally ill.

reply to post by kevinunknown


One of the most common mental disorders I know of is bipolar disorder. I have asked a professionally trained psychologist or psychiatrist (cannot remember which) what tests are available to confirm the disorder. The answer is that there are no machine tests that can detect bi-polar disorder. Therefore, it is guesswork and the degree of confidence these professionals have in diagnosis is ridiculous. Its one thing if you are seeing things that other people are not, but for most disorders including bipolar disorder it simply is not that obvious. Professionals in the field should not pretend to have a degree of confidence that they cannot possibly have on an objective basis.

Sure there are cases where it is obvious, especially if someone is seeing or hearing something that other people don't. But in most cases it isn't obvious and the diagnosis is over-confident.

I wont say what i seriously think of this thread and the idea of banning mentally ill people from ATS because it will get me banned. So all i will say is it is very wrong to even think like this

reply to post by kevinunknown


kevinunknown,

Are you a psychiatrist?

If not, and although this thread is interesting, you simply don't know what you're talking about.

Have you ever suffered or been diagnosed for having a mental illness?

If not, you simply don't know what you're talking about.

Are you a mod to decide who gets banned and who doesn't?

If not...well, I guess you get it by now.

With all due respect.

this is such a good way to disrupt ATS.
every one has to watch every word they say.
or get a ban...
then make a new account.
make it now! before its to late.

so ever nut is exsacaly the same.
and like the Victorian times.
should be locket away from other people.

if some one sees aliens,
and tells his doctor.
he will end up seeing a physiatrist.
and he ends up a nut job because
the rest of use dont see aliens.

most insane people go to religion for help.
it gives them direction and peace.
just look at what they follow!
people who right books from listening to voices!
mosses, Mohamed.
if they did that now.
they would be given a lot of tablets.

just look at Galileo Galilei.
he was a insane heliocentric.
he look’t through tube and said the earth goes around the sun!!!
totally Mad!

what is this reality we live in?
science says we have other dimensions.
Scientist believes gravity doesn't exist!
so many thing that are mad and insane
at the time later are found to be true.

kevinunknown “its all in your head!” ?
why did you get upset when he said some
thing bad about your picture of an
elderly chimpanzee in a suit and tie?
Michael Jackson your Alive!!!

reply to post by kevinunknown


Well my view on psychological disorders is best summarized by the words of E.B. White: "Genius is more often found in a cracked pot than in a whole one."

reply to post by time91


What about the decades of research that have gone into the study of clinical psychology and psychiatry since Freud? Many of the diagnoses Freud gave aren't even recognized anymore. If you have a personal bias against psychology that's fine, but don't try to diminish the work done and being done by many brilliant men and women in the field because of one man who enjoyed a cigar and believed a relatively unknown substance to be a wonder drug.

Excuse me, but i am gay & THAT was considered a 'mental illness' up until 1973-1975.

Your certainty of what sanity means is as likely a sign of YOUR neurosis.

As long as people are not a serious danger to themselves or others then whatever take they have on their or our 'reality' is their own business.

George Bush, Dick Cheney, Rumsfeld & all the neocon crew are all considered 'sane' & 'credible' by even most of their adversaries,

even after no WMDs, no capture of Osama Bin Laden & a Trillion dollars have already been spent, with future costs extending into the multiple trillions.

Add to that the acres of corpses they left in their wake,
which NO ONE dares to publicly question?

Seems to me the 'sane' perspective you seem to promote as your agenda is looking kind of bankrupt from the outset.

The very definition of 'sanity' however one defines it has an agenda basis.
In that some things are acceptable &/or favored & others are unacceptable &/or unfavored.

And ALL the people on the planet believing the world is [essentially] flat does NOT make it so.

It seems to me 'mental' people simply haven't been pre-bagged by the cultural iconry of money, careers, social conquests etc.
And considering the ruin so many supposedly 'sane' people inflict on the rest of humanity, the planet,

even to a point of collective suicide?

You need to rain-check your absurd basis of sanity & try to come up with one that at least has a better pretense of a sound intellectual basis.

Ca-Ching!

No $ale, baby.

[edit on 20-7-2010 by slank]

reply to post by truthquest


There are however valid and reliable surveys that can be given that do a pretty good job of helping flesh out a diagnosis. The most famous of these is the Beck Depression Index. Then there are tests like the MMPI that test for a wide variety of disorders, with numerous sub-scales, that has been standardized against people who display the disorders. More work has gone in to calibrating the MMPI than probably any other test in existence. So, it is not all guess work like you seem to believe. Besides, if you are going to a psychologist it means that your behavior is disordered enough that a fairly accurate diagnosis should be forthcoming. The problem comes from the fact that many disorders are comorbid and so the psychologist has to figure out which the most pressing disorder is and which one is causing the others.

And FYI,

it was the American Psychological Association that was helping figure out how best to

TORTURE Guantanamo detainees there.

Detainees who had not even had a single hearing.
Guys rounded up & handed to US troops at $5,000.00 USD a head,
with NO QUESTIONS asked, in Afghanistan where that is a fortune.

So you can take all your stodgy, stuck up the backsideness & spin on it.

If you accept those kind of psychos as one of your 'trained, accredited professionals'?

My God you have NO STANDARDS & should be held on charges of bankrupt pomposity.

reply to post by MemoryShock


No you should not be banned because you hear voices. No one else should either unless they make threats or just right down nasty. The internet should remain a safe place for all of those that seek its shelter. We have enough to worry about with all the people we come in contact with that want to do this or that to a person because they are different and not of the majority.

And add to that the skyrocketing of clinically depressed diagnoses,

now that DRUG companies have new drugs to pedal.

And ADHD diagnoses that can be inflicted upon children,

again to pedal legalized drugs?

It would be laughable except that people buy into this BS or are afraid to speak out against it due to social pressures from corrupt insider corporate interests.

You are selling condescending authoritarianism,

and sorry, bitch, but i for one am not buying it.

Pedal your crap to someone foolish enough to buy it.

First, Kevin needs to come back......

I have a few questions for him.

First, I would love to know if this guy is a shrink.

Second, if he is how does he decide when someone has a paranoid delusion? What criteria does he use to assess their truth? Does he think all those tv preachers, who are always saying God talked to them, are crazy?

INMO, this guy is more dangerous than anyone he claims he is trying to save. He'll do more damage to people than someone talking to voices in their head.

Mentality is a fragile, delicate thing.

Door slamming absolutes are not the medicine,

they are the poison & the disease.

And this thread's author is one sick puppy.

reply to post by nolabel


Thank you for being honest and fresh. We don't have enough of honesty these days. It is sad for a so called professional to embrace the deception and deceit of our daily reality, it is another for them to call anyone who disagrees with them as being some mental case.

I fully agree that some of histories most illuminated figures have been those that by today's professional psychiatric assessment would be called insane or deranged. Anything but normal. If I recall, Newton was called crazy and yes his idea about gravity was insane and crazy, but guess what? He was right when everyone around him called him different and who threatened the status quo. He had the courage to believe in himself because he knew what the pundits did not. That he was right and he knew it.

I think it is sad for those that embrace the new religion of psychiatry to do so as if it was something real and beneficial to humanity. Nothing could be further from the truth. To be a high priest in the world of mental health requires that you embrace the need for pills.....and more pills. It becomes about pushing pharmaceutical products because of kickbacks. It becomes about greed over people and well, to have a patient he needs to have a problem. Provide a diagnosis and you have a customer that can be used to milk the insurance companies.

I ask you, does this sound normal to you? While it may business as usual, it is clearly insane and I for one know it without having to have a PHD to know so. I hate the term normal. It reminds me of our government telling us a lie and calling it a truth. I hate the constant reversal of what is real, what is true and what is good for us when in fact it is just the opposite. It is that inability to be honest. To say what is on our minds without getting all wrapped up in niceties that is missing from most Americans.

When we are told lies that are truths, what is bad for us is good for us and what is up is down and what is down is up. This is when I for one begin to see that those professionals that embrace their so called reality, do so because it suits them. It provides an income and for many it strokes the ego. Feeding the the ego beast is what these so called professionals are all about with their fancy cars, fancy friends, fancy clothes. End the end it will be these types that will perish by their own doing.

If our world ever comes tumbling down, those that our society called strange and less than normal are the people within our society that will end up being alive long after those so called professionals. You see, I learned a valuable lesson in life one day long, long ago. It is still with me and that lesson for many will be learned the hard way.

Those that feel on top of the world today with their status, wealth, position, material possessions, multiple degrees and years of education, all of these types will become their own victims when the dream bubble gets burst. It will be these so called normal people that will be going around killing and doing things that would have been unimaginable in the years before apocalypse. It will be the so called normal people that will be acting crazy. How ironic in my book.

I firmly believe or suspect that our nation and our so called reality is going to burst again soon and then and only then will those that are now called professionally sane and competent become the mental cases of the world. When the veil comes off, all those now that think they are so normal are going to find out just how abnormal they really were. Today, those that society has branded or stigmatized as a mental case are going to once again prove just how wrong people really were.

While I will admit there are a lot of mental cases, but for the most part I will embrace the veterans when the dream collapses. They are now mostly called mental, but when the dream collapses, they will once again be seen as normal. On that day I know the so called professionals will be embracing death because being crazy is different from acting crazy and to a psychiatrist it will be too late to learn that lesson.

The veterans will know how to deal with reality, because they have seen or done what all the so called normal people have never had to do. These veteran types and others like them are going to once again become"Normal" to what the average citizen thinks of them. Most will never understand about what is normal and what really is insane until its too late. Being different is not being mental. Being honest and candid is perhaps being mental, but if it is, I for one will embrace it for being the better alternative.

Anyway, thanks for the honest posting. I for one enjoyed it. Anyway, your fresh remarks reminded me of better times that are almost gone from my memories. It was good to think about what is really real. I needed that break.

Thanks again.

www.direct.gov.uk...

www.mind.org.uk...

mentalhealth.samhsa.gov...





[edit on 20-7-2010 by Zeta Reticulan]

Central Planning Communism had a rigorous prescription for everyone's life.

Hmmm, i guess all that monotonous, sterile ideology didn't last, eh?

If you don't like life's inherent chaotic characteristics,

hurry up & die.

I am sure you will be much happier.

can agree with you on this topic, but if you read the book called dmt the spirit molecule you'll know that alien abductions are from sleep paralysis, it's hard to explain but if you read the book it'll explain it better than I can for I don't have the time.

Some people on here seem to be a little off the deep end but I haven't seen as many cases of what your suggesting. Maybe because I don't spend that much time on the forums. I tend to just look at threads that arouse my interests.