ATS and Mental Illness

reply to post by Xcalibur254


I have something to say to you. I myself, have such diagnosis you mentioned and I will tell you this, here and now. I have tried over 6 different medications for many of the illnesses you have mentioned. They didnt work. On some, I became like a zombie and you want to know the scariest part? I was a professional health care worker and KNEW what these meds would do to me, but wanted to be better, to follow the orders and try to be "normal" again and like society wants me to be. I havent medicated for over 3 yrs and I wont ever again. On the meds I lost my creativity, spontanious thoughts, dreams and even moments of happiness. Im depressed, but for damn good reason, this "society" doesnt give a crap about people like me, if I rock a boat, Im outted, if I question, Im outted, if Im curious and show it, Im outted, if I show intelligance, outted....this has happened to me all my life from family to religion, school and jobs. Screw the diagnosis, sites like this make me feel normal and more sane because most of the idiots outside who watch their tvs and drive their suvs and talk on their iphones while d/ling to their ipods dont realize what in the hell is going on. Maybe Icke isnt right, maybe the oil leak is stopped, maybe bigfoot is just a legand....but if i took those meds and did what everyone thought was BEST FOR ME, I wouldnt care if martal law was implemented, I was drug off to a camp and exicuted. Most of the drugs are not working, they are old, need researched better and given out less. Some do work for some cases, but your quick to tell another what to do, isnt right...unless you admit to the same illnesses and do what you have suggested, dont talk. Mental illness is a battle, daily, hourly and at times minute by minute, but it doesnt make us less human nor should have us judged to ban us from our freckin freedoms of choice to go to ATS, porn sites or watch disney! We still have our rights to make choices, even if they do not jive with your ideals.

Right I have been of ATS for about 12 hours, and our brothers over the pond have had their nightly input.

reply to post by Hyperwave


Most developed states will have a law similar to the one you are talking to, I cannot comment on the specifics of the law you have talked about in NY. In Scotland we have something called the mental health care and treatment act which i think is the same thing. However it’s not a court people are taken to its a mental health tribunal and the “shirnk” does not always get his own way. I support most laws that allow for compulsory treatment that is in the patients best interest.

reply to post by Nivcharah


I am not going to comment on my other thread here, but if you want to continue with you lovely little rant on that thread feel free.

Anyway I am flattered you have went off and read all my threads i should say the UFO one was just something i put up when i signed up but then i got board and went away for two months. So really I have only been on the go for just over one month. And yes i do write a heck of allot, some of it might be total rubbish some of it is quite popular if you don’t like it feel free to read something else.

Thanks for suggesting i am a disinfo agent, every time somebody does this my illuminate pay masters give a extra £20 in my pay packet. And well done on manipulating one of my other threads (dose that could as plagiarism under the T&C’s?) I hope you liked you liked that thread. Again you caught me out, that’s exactly what i am trying to do build up a group of ATS followers then my plan is to take over ATS so i can squash all internet conspiracies then take over the world. Get real when you start with these type of suggestions and accusations you have lost the argument.

PS you might want to do something about that weasel

reply to post by Teknikal


I really think you should go and read up some more on depression. If it was that easy then we would all be nice happy people all the time.



Anyway sorry i have not got back to everybody.

Explanation: Uhm??? ...

reply to post by Teknikal

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I really think you should go and read up some more on depression. If it was that easy then we would all be nice happy people all the time.

I think you need to go read upsome more on TPTB! It is that easy IF we didn't have to ALSO try and survive comfortably in an 1984 orwellian artificially imposed "Dumb us Down and Dose us to Death" environment!



Personal Disclosure: Oi Big Brother!!! Go blow your doublethink newspeak out ya memory hole! Your desire to lable those such as I as "unpersons" clearly shows your Thought Police true colours! I've been to room 101... I made my interrogator SCREAM!

I think it is awsome.... Crazy people are apparently experts on "mental illness"... Just because I have the flu DOES NOT make me a viral expert!!!
I have a tooth ache...am I qualified to give you dental advise?

reply to post by Teknikal


As I've stated time and again in this thread, increased suicidal tendencies only occur in younger cases and only rarely. In adults the effects of SSRIs can be almost miraculous. If one looks at suicide rates before and after the release of Prozac, they will see that they are much lower after.

reply to post by suthainn


People react in different ways to different dosages and different drugs. It is your responsibility to give feedback to your psychiatrist so the right drug and dosage can be found. Furthermore, meds are not designed to be a permanent solution. They are there so one can manage their symptoms enough to take part in psychotherapy and get off the meds. Unfortunately people aren't willing to do the work that psychotherapy requires and instead they choose to just keep popping pills. There is no insidious plot here to permanently dumb people down, just dumb people who think they can change their thought patterns and behaviors through medication alone.

I will admit right now, I am not the biggest proponent of psychiatry. That's only because I feel most psychological disorders can be helped through CBT alone. However, medication does have an important role to play in certain cases. If a person is too afraid to leave their house or can't speak without having a panic attack Klonopin can give them the help they need to get to a clinical psychologist and talk to them. If a person is so depressed they don't have the motivation to get out of bed Prozac can help motivate them. In the case of schizophrenics, antipsychotics are absolutely essential if they want to do psychotherapy because the psychologist can have trouble connecting with them if they aren't in a lucid period.

reply to post by Teknikal


THERE WEAK ? DUDE THIS ISNT AN EGO TRIP.

you really need to think about what you say more your agression or what have you is so far from impressive do you know what happens when a phsycofrenic is off there med s yeah yea spelling ... duh

they can hurt themselves or worse yet others like you.!!

of course drug and government companies are in it for the money SURPRISE !?

but if you were as inciteful as you were internet muscle bound you would see the logic and error in your statements or you will pick some ignorant veiw and try to argue how doctors misdiagnose (people make mistakes they also dont) or how tptb are after our minds use reason not ignorance and dont diagnose sick people on ATS by saying meds are bad or whatever or weak or whatever....

Be Well

[edit on 22-7-2010 by triplescorpio]

[edit on 22-7-2010 by triplescorpio]

reply to post by kevinunknown


that's the problem,if people come to these kinds
of site's and take all the conspiracies to seriously
they can easily lose the plot/get more paranoid etc.

i have seen so many threads on this topic and you
are correct in what you say.

even i need a break once in a while to stop myself
from being swallowed up by the conspiracies.
some take it all to literal and worry it's all true
and TPTB are out to get them.

reply to post by triplescorpio


just for your own comfort in posting, if you'll notice, after you've written your post but haven't as yet pushed the reply button, any words in what you've typed that aren't properly spelled will be underlined in a squiggly red line. just right click that line and it'll give you a menu of various words from which you can choose the correct spelling. sometimes the word isn't in the database, but a word like schizophrenic is, and i just proved it to myself by spelling it wrong and right clicking it to find the correct spelling in the drop down. lol that's not an easy word to spell.

Originally posted by kevinunknown
When people who are living with a significant mental health diagnosis on ATS they are confronted with two things that could be dangerous in their fragile state of mind. The first is an entire forum detected on the most part to expose medication as being unnecessary and even dangerous, it talks about how it can make us ill and even control us. The second danger comes from the people on ATS who fuel their psychotic delusions and build further mistrust in the health services. Sometimes people on ATS try to convince people who talk about a mental illness that they are not mentally ill rather they have some type of special incite or are being subjected to some form of mind control.

These claims to not benefit that person in anyway regardless if they are going through a psychotic period or not, they cast doubt over their very diagnosis and can encourage them to stop taking their medication. Its highly unethical and I suspect the only reason some ATS members like to give alternative explanations about what mental illness is, is because they are ignorant. I bet none of you would tell any relatives you may have who are living with a mentally illness that they are not mentally ill but just hearing the voice of God.

Now you understand the lure of Scientology.

"Hey, there's nothing wrong with you! Just ignore the "experts" and their years of 'study' and 'facts.' It's all very simple - you just have the spirits of aliens living inside you. You can get rid of them, but you'll have to open your checkbook..."

Hubbard even believed that psychiatrists were behind a worldwide conspiracy to attack Scientology and create a "world government" run by psychiatrists on behalf of the USSR. Too bad he's not alive - he'd LOVE ATS.

reply to post by mothershipzeta


I honestly don’t know enough about scientology to know if you were insulting me or not but either way i am giving you a star.

reply to post by Mobius1974



I dont think anyone here is claiming to be an expert on mental health in general. I'd bet that everyone on here that does have some sort of mental illness has researched it thoroughly and almost completely. It's what 'we' do. It's a constant quest to find that answer we're all looking for, why...Why do I do the things I do? Why do I feel the way I do? If it were as easy as 'buck up' we'd all do it. It's not to gain sympathy or attention, noone really wants to live life that way.
It's like ur toothache, only mental illness cant be seen, but that doesnt mean it's not real. You can never truly understand it unless you've experienced urself. You can never understand cancer or the pains of childbirth until you've experienced it. It doesnt make us experts but it certainly gives those who've gone through it more experience than those who havent. I'm lucky, I dont suffer depression, it's the highs that kick my ass.
Mental illness can come about for many reasons. Some may be born thata way. Some may have had something traumatic happen in their life that has affected them. Children can be damaged from molestion, women can be affected by rape, a soldier can have PTSD. You dont see it but it's there and it's real.
It's a shame there are so many who think the things you do. It adds to the 'craziness'. We're told we're nutjobs then we tend to second guess that inner voice which makes the problem that much worse. Whether you believe in mental illness or not You should try being more accepting of those who 'think' suffer it. It's our obligation to help and support others who need it...it's good for the soul.

Kim

edit for spelling but missed 1, I'm sure of it
Haha! found it!


[edit on 7/22/10 by Demetre]

[edit on 7/22/10 by Demetre]

reply to post by Demetre


Kim,

I mean no disrespect with my next statement.

IMHO. Mental weakness is often considered mental illness.

I am not foolish enough to believe that all mental illness can be fixed with simply "toughening up". BUT.... Everyone gets depressed... some people are just not strong enough mentally to pull out of it....

Now of course none of you fit that category... Simply because nobody in their right mind (punn intended) would be able to admit that they are just not strong enough.

I feel that studying mental illness is like studying DNA.. you might understand the basics structure of each illness... but the small discrepancies are the defining aspects of each persons mental illness.

Depressed now... but Ill be back on track, once I leave work.
Oh wait.... I am just bored!

reply to post by Mobius1974


I'm not sure I understand what you're suggesting. If you were truly, severely, clinically depressed, you wouldn't magically feel better once you got off work. Truly severe clinical depression is a pervasive, crippling condition that affects multiple if not all areas of one's life. And for many people, no amount of "mental toughness" on its own is sufficient to change that. (Note that I am by no means asserting that that is universally true.)

You said no one in their right mind would admit "not being strong enough" to pull themselves out of it. But true clinical depression, when severe, is clinical precisely for that reason: it's a neurological condition over which the patient often cannot exert conscious control or affect change in without psychological and/or psychiatric intervention of some kind.

If I'm wrong, please correct me, but you seem to be suggesting that depression is simply sadness, boredom, and mental weakness. You said that you were "depressed," but would feel better when you got off work. Then you said you were just "bored." It is far more profound and complex than that when both clinical and severe. My hope is that I am simply misinterpreting your meaning, in which case, I apologize for my mistake in advance.

reply to post by Mobius1974


I'm not offended, dont sweat it. . I agree, I dont think there's a person alive that knows 'everything' about any given subject. Things are constantly changing, we're discovering new things and the circumstances that change them. My point is that nobody's claiming to be an expert on anything other than themselves.
There are different kinds of depression. There's normal depression that happens after a major event, like a death or losing ur job. It's usually short term for the most part and passes over time. There's also chemical depression and is exactly what it sounds like, a chemical imbalance. It keeps coming back without any particular reason or trigger. I also agree that Drs prescribe meds too quick when it's just normal depression. Anything longer than 2 wks is chronic depression?? That's ridiculous, anyone can be depressed for 2,3,4 wks and it be normal. I'd think the history of the patient would come into play??? So, ur right. Not everyone needs meds and they can pull out of their depression within time but maybe are given meds and not really know everything they felt was completely normal. That's my expert opinion anyway...lol.

Kevinunknown is a mental health worker.

His premise is this-

The topics on ATS will exacerbate the symptoms of mental illness, therefore the mentally ill should be banned from ATS.

What follows then, is the fact that you must likewise ban the mentally ill from anything on the web, the television, books, etc. that he also deems them not capable of "handling."

This is absolutely preposterous.

He merely pointing toward the nature/nuture debate of psychological theory, taking the nurture side, and then applying this to psychiatry.

en.wikipedia.org...

Mental illness involves physical and biochemical abnormalities of the brain.

You are no more going to stop mental illness by banning the mentally ill from the internet, television, books, etc. than you are going to stop cancer by refusing cancer patients to study medicine.

His whole argument is utter nonsense.

Ban 55 million people from ATS in the United States?

Our population is 300 million.

You're insane.

Let's now say that 1/6 of America's population are now not allowed to view R-rated movies either.

Furthermore, how would you obtain your knowledge of who is and who is not mentally ill?

Requiring mental background checks on gun ownership is one thing.

Requiring mental background checks for the internet?

And who, may I ask, would enforce your system on a global scale?

The United Nations?

reply to post by Hyperwave


Thank you hyperwave for bringing some reality into this discussion. This idea of moderating people for anything other than personal attacks and other obvious forum rules is idiotic and makes me question the person who supports such nonsenses' outlook and attitude toward other people. It makes me think some don't want others thinking too hard and want those who happen to do so, be put in a corner and forced to make macaroni pictures.

It is bad enough the mentally ill are thrust into a system for life that fosters a patient/victim/loser mentality and holds the very real possibility of premature death let alone thought policing them on the internet. There are enough stigmas associated with mental illness as it is.

As I've stated earlier, I oppose banning or moderating those who have avowed psychosis or any other mental disorder here. Banning them won't stop them from reading the material here, and ignoring the problem won't make it go away. If anything, proving their delusions to them and urging them to get help would be more beneficial to them (and to everyone else in my opinion) than simply banning them.

The only thing I take issue with are the misconceptions being bantered about in this thread regarding mental health care, and those suffering from mental illness. They are in my opinion, at best, extreme generalizations not applicable to the whole of mental health care.

CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy,) widely regarded as the most effective form of psychotherapy in terms of getting real results, is not designed to instill a "victim mentality." If anything, it greatly empowers those who undergo it, when it's applied correctly, as it allows patients to change self-defeating patterns of thinking and behaving. It is intended to make sufferers aware of their own behavior and thoughts, to take control of them, and to change them in a constructive and effective manner, rather than falling victim to and being controlled by them continually. This is the opposite of "victim mentality" in my opinion.

I'm sure there are forms of psychotherapy, and therapists, that do end up allowing patients to use their issues as crutches. I'm also sure there are some who even encourage this, as, as some have suggested, it provides a continuing source of income for them. But that is by no means the norm or what is expected of or accepted from a doctor. Those people shouldn't be practicing psychiatry in my opinion. Any psychologist or psychiatrist worth their salt has as their ultimate goal the health and wellbeing of their patient, not the perpetuation of their issue. I'm by no means saying they're all that virtuous, but I think we should try to avoid making generalizations if we can at all.

I've already touched earlier on the other misconceptions/generalizations (mental illness being "mental weakness," and psych meds being inherently, universally harmful.)

Psychology and Psychiatry are not the same thing.

They have nothing to do with each other for the most part in the 21st century.

Psychology uses different verbal therapies in order to cure general neurosis and personality disorders.

Psychiatry on the other hand uses medications to alter the way the brain functions and is purely hypothetical.

A psychologist does not have to go to med school like a Psychiatrist, and has no license to write prescriptions.

However, as I stated before, most neurologists will tell you that Psychiatry is pseudoscience based solely upon dopamine receptor site theory. All of it's claims are purely hypothetical.

The three main types of medications in Psychiatry are-

1) Anti-psychotics- these do nothing more than chemically lobotomize the frontal and temporal lobes of the brain. They turn it off. You're not treating or healing or correcting anything. You're merely turning off the brain where delusions and hallucinations originate from. These medications cause irreversible neurological damage in the process, and increase the severity of the illness.

2) Anti-depressants- these drugs boost the serotonin levels in the brain (SSRIs). Another group target dopamine, such as Wellbutrin. Again, this isn't medicine. You aren't treating anything. You're just getting the brain high on its own chemicals, which is why you start feeling "happy."

3) Mood Stabilizers- the current drugs used in Psychiatry for mood stabilization are Temporal Lobe Epileptic medications. However, Temporal Lobe Epilepsy is not mental illness. These drugs are used simply because they work.

My best advise would for someone to get a Physician's Desk Reference at their local library, and start looking up the psychiatric drugs. You'll quickly realize that Psychiatry for the most part does not know how any of them really work.

BUT- all of this stuff is NOT what this thread is about.

Kev here, is saying that that the mentally ill should be banned from this site because it will cause them to go insane.

He's ignorant.

So what are you Kev? A tech?

(He won't tell us.)

He advocates electroshock, involuntary commitment, and requirement by law for people to take psychiatric medication.

By the way, I am not saying that there aren't good psychiatrists. However, I am saying that in the 21st century, about 80% are scumbags who are exploiting their field to make money.

Also, I am not saying someone should go off their medications if they are mentally ill.

Please don't put words in my mouth, or thoughts in my head.

That won't fly here.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9c21ce76451d.jpg[/atsimg]

(here's a better pic for your avatar kev- it suits you better)