Originally posted by Skyfloating
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Kevin comes alone and bans them, and they turn around and kill themselves, having lost their last link to a world where they can interact in some
positive way with others.
If your saying that it would be Kevins "fault" that they commit suicide Id have to disagree with that. While Im against banning them, implying that
someone other than themselves is responsible for their actions is...questionable.
[edit on 26-7-2010 by Skyfloating]
The point is Skyfloating is no one to my knowledge is forced to sign on to and participate or even read what is on ATS. (Staff accusations about a
slave driving overlord not withstanding)
So if they voluntarily seek out ATS that means that they can voluntarily disengage from ATS. Looking at the membership roster it’s clear that people
do come and go for various reasons at various points.
So forcing someone not to participate in ATS that has not violated the Terms of Service Agreement is a rather circumspect way to deal with someone who
may be suffering from some mental illness or deficiency.
Kevin’s whole theory is based on his supposed first hand real time interaction with someone suffering from a severe mental trauma and episode in an
actual institutional environment.
So first off we are talking about a very, very small percentage of the mentally ill that are that deeply afflicted.
Second off while Kevin purports this individual felt they were kidnapped by space aliens and implanted with a device that led them to attempting to
potentially harm them selves to ferret out and rid themselves of the device, what he hasn’t done is display that particular extreme case resulted
from the person being on ATS or any similar site.
People have claimed to be kidnapped by space aliens and followed by the CIA and other such extreme paranoia well before the advent of the Internet.
People existed with these conditions without the Internet. Whether they developed there ideas through TV, Books, News Papers, Periodicals, friends, or
family, or might actually have been kidnapped by space aliens or truly followed around by the CIA has not one thing to do with the Internet.
In fact where Kevin’s theories fail in my humble opinion, is the Internet is a ‘safe’ venue in relative terms for people suffering from
paranoia, as they can engage and disengage with less feeling of threat, than if you or I were to encounter them in the street and engage them in a
conversation along similar lines.
As someone who has travelled the world, and has spent significant time out on its mean streets engaging the people on it, I sure have met some
particularly disturbed people.
Most of them simply can’t cope and will flee and take flight from any confrontational situation where they are questioned as to the validity of
Two important things should be considered here, the first is that if someone has Internet Access then they are not totally withdrawn from society,
they aren’t out on the streets, they are managing to maintain somehow, someway in society.
So no, they really aren’t the craziest of the crazies.
Two is that they have an opportunity through the Internet to be safely exposed to other possibilities and life and social skills, while and through
sharing their own perspectives and fears.
As someone who posts on a wide range of topics including the New World Order, and some of the Metaphysical and Spiritual aspects of life, let me tell
you I do get some very concerning U2U’s from time to time. People have wanted to know everything from whether they should go into the light or avoid
when they die, to whether I know who is in possession of the ‘artifact’ to whether I have been sent by God to affect a mass awakening, or in a few
cases if I am God himself as well as some people who have accused me of being the Anti-Christ and Caesar reincarnate.
Yet the truth is most of these people are simply scared about unknowns that they are desperately searching for answers for, and I try always too
patiently and responsibly recognize that, and provide them the best honest response I can in a respectful way, no matter how bizarre or strange I
think there inquiry or accusation is.
At best I can help to nudge them back to a less fearful place simply by providing them additional perspective and information.
That requires interacting with them though, and that can’t be done when they are banned.
Now in my nearly two years on ATS there has been one case where I was genuinely concerned, and I think it’s an important example.
A member was certain Nibiru was returning, that he could hear its approach and that a Reptilian Horde would soon be descending on us all. He posted a
thread in the Gray Area and I could tell right away from his Original Post that he had a real problem, one that initially I felt it wise to humor.
Of course most of the respondents to the thread were naturally skeptical and many insulting and hostile, which led to an increasingly belligerent
stance, that led to him getting banned.
Within moments of him getting banned he U2Ud me to provide me an off site Email Address through a regular ISP.
Thank goodness he did. His banning increased his paranoia, and at one point he was so convinced that the Reptilians were about to arrive and that they
would sadistically torture him, his wife and children, to increase their endorphin output to make them sweeter tasting that he was seriously
contemplating killing himself and his whole family to avoid that fate.
Now he had only been a member for a few days, and came to ATS to share his theory, and did not pick up his theories from ATS. He was banned for
legitimate Terms of Service Violations but he was so paranoid to start out with, he simply viewed that as ATS playing an active role in wanting to
suppress the arrival of Nibiru and the Reptilians.
I finally managed after several days of exchanging offsite emails to convince him that I would personally enter the Astral Stream and fight the
reptilians and defeat them, and would he accept that I had won, if by a certain date Nibiru did not appear.
We selected a date for that, and I made up a fanciful story for him of how I managed to confront and defeat the Reptilians on the astral plane!
I shutter to think what might have happened to him and his family had he just been banned and lost all contact with open minded people. He was
unemployed, literally locked up in his home in fear, and his only contact with the outside world was through the Internet.
So in my humble opinion banning him, simply cut him off from people who could reason with him, and people being so confrontational with him, in their
desire to pronounce him a loon, only increased his loony behavior.
So while Kevin has his own experiences I have mine, and mine lead me to believe banning the truly mentally ill could lead to more problems than it
The truth is there is no uniform way to successfully help individual people, each case has its own peculiarities and nuances that preclude a blanket
Someone who is generally interested in helping others would also be generally interested in determining what is the best way to help an individual
based on their individual circumstances and problem.
So I do in fact question whether Kevin wants to help people and if he is actually capable and insightful enough on how to help people, or if Kevin
just wants to rid the boards of people who have outlandish theories and ideas, or disagree with him.
A couple months later, after the crisis was over, the person actually sought out counseling on his own, became gainfully employed again, and
recognized he had a deep break from reality.
He was appreciative someone stuck with him and truly was concerned and did their level best to help them through it.
That’s helping people, and I have a funny feeling that many people including Kevin would not approve of a lay person helping and would favor a
blanket institutionalized approach.
That though is incredibly naïve as the truth is you can’t help people who have no interest in helping themselves, and I don’t believe being
banned from ATS would be the catalyst that would cause someone like that to seek out help, in fact it had an opposite effect more deeply entrenching
In truth if Kevin were really interested in helping people, there are no shortage of chances to do that right here on ATS provided you have a real
desire, and are sensitive and empathetic enough to deal with all it’s varied personalities and perspectives.
Kevin seems to imagine we are all the poorer for their presence here, I believe though we are all the richer for it because it does provide a number
of challenging learning and growth opportunities.
Denying ignorance is really just about being willing and desirous of learning and growing, and we learn and grow through others, not by simply
creating a mold that all must fit into or be ostracized and removed from the herd.