reply to post by joechip
I appreciate your response, but feel that we have completely different spiritual views that color our views of this.
Of course, it is our diversity of opinions that makes ATS what it is.
I believe (rather firmly) that there is nothing to learn, but merely to remember,
Wait I thought this was a theory? Why would we forget in the first place if we are perfect? or did we make a choice?
and that the concept of "progress" has no meaning in the spiritual.
Which is precisely why we might "choose" to descend into the worlds of form to gain new experience we can't get on the spiritual plane.
In other words we were created perfect. Whole. And connected with God. I believe we have fragmented ourself and experience a dream. As in a
dream we are unaware of the waking state. The waking state is reality.
Ok I agree this is like a dream however if we were created perfect then why don't we just snap out of it? How come perfection has such a hard time
waking up? Flaw in the matrix perhaps? Naw that would be an imperfection.
How did we as perfect creations get stuck in the mire of this life? On
other words how did perfection screw up? The only thing that makes sense if we were created perfect is we must have chosen to descend into this
dream world to experience form.
I do not believe I chose this world as a place to learn, as there is nothing to learn. Or grow as I was created perfect and whole. Or evolve or
however you wish to phrase the concept. I believe I am hiding from myself and God. In a dream. I believe the parts of me that created this dream to
hide manifest as "religion" and other control mechanisms to keep myself asleep.
Then you need to answer the above question. Also how did you learn to walk and talk? How did you learn to interact with others, to not harm, to
love, to feel, to smell, to touch, to dream within the dream, to suffer, and to experience joy etc etc..?
If there is nothing to learn and everything is perfection ok great but now I am bored, gee think I ll choose to descend into the worlds of forms for
some new experience or at least to forget that I already know everything and need to forget to not be bored. So still it had to be a choice ? Even if
you could hide from god would not that be your choice too?
I believe these "new age" concepts and others join the dogma of the major world religions in justifying this false world, giving it a
Wow and think your belief we were all created perfect and just need to wake up is not new age dogma? :0
No offense, but I feel we are on totally different pages here. I read the parable you linked, and did not relate at all. I don't believe in
hell, for instance. I believe I am asleep and dreaming.
None taken however did you expect everyone to believe exactly as you? You asked for opinions and you got some including mine. The parable was just
that I don't believe in the religious concept of hell either and the point of the parable was that where ever we find ourselves the place is what we
make of it. It was not to convince anyone of heaven or hell in the traditional sense. You can believe anything you like I am not here to convince you
otherwise I just gave my opinion and you did say it was a theory, however now you tell me it is a firm belief. No offense I made some observations
based on it being a theory where it does not seem to make sense, that should give some pause on this.
If I REALIZE it rather than simply believe it, maybe I wake up. Maybe you can take hold of the whole question and wake yourself up with a
I don't know, its just a theory. But I do know we are coming from wildly different starting places and I don't relate to your post. Thanks, though.
Ok now we are back to it being a theory. Let me just say "maybe" is not a good reason to use a bullet to find out. It sounds to me like you might
be trying to justify suicide in your own mind. Not that your on the verge or anything but looking for justification. Then what? Let me suggest that
if we are perfect and connected to god which I agree we are connected and perhaps perfect in that sphere we came from so to speak then why not seek to
find out from the source? How can one hide from god if it is perfection? Are you telling me the perfect god can't find you because you are hiding in
a dream? Talk about new age... But the bottom line is that makes no sense so why don't you try asking, or meditation, or what ever your belief system
is to connect with god and get an answer before trying a bullet based on a theory of "maybe" The key is determination and perseverance. The bullet
theory is not a good way to find out. There is a a driving spiritual current/connectedness to god that drives all life and pulls us forward why not
try and get a more direct connection and get some solid answers instead of speculating. If you put your attention on it long enough and are determined
you will get some answers through the soul!
[edit on 18-7-2010 by hawkiye]