What would it take for you to accept Darwin's Theory Of Evolution ?

Originally posted by getreadyalready

So, modern man evolved over say 5 million years. That is 1/2 million generations. In 250,000 generations (highly generalized) we went from basic animals to intelligent men, then that same evolution should be apparent in other species.

It is. Plenty of species. Some are mid evolution now, like the platypus. Look at the evolution of the whale, and its cousin... the hippo. The whale was once a land animal. One went the way of the hippo, the other the whale.

So take a colony of bacteria or amoeba or whatever you like that has a celle division rate of several hours. Run it through 1/2 million generations with whatever external stimulus you choose, and see if it evolves significantly.

it can't adapt in a petri dish. You need the environment to force it to adapt. If you give it food and water and a happy existance in a petri dish, it doesn't need too. It has everything it needs. The whole point of evolution is to find stasis. You provide stasis, you no longer need evolution. But since the world is ever changing, no one is ever in stasis unless it is artificially created.

Adaptations happen for a reason. Lets go back to our whale friend, the animal headed into the water either for safety or for food. This worked out, so it became amphibious.

It will "adapt" and it may have an ever so slight evolution, but it certainly won't be as dramatic as ape to man,

What is the scientific criteria for "dramatic?" I am sure it would be quite dramatic for the bacteria.

Your confusing adaptation with mutation. They are different. But some mutations actually work out, so they stay and that species is changed. You don't see evidence of the losers, because they didn't reproduce.

or single cell to multi-cell, or any other significant improvement that Darwin's theory would have us expect.

You can't "expect" adaptation, mutation, or evolution. Again, if you actually bothered to understand science, the environment is always changing. You don't know what mutation is going to happen. It would be like predicting the lotto.

Prove me wrong. Prove evolution exists!

I just did. And scientists run these kinds of tests all the time. They play with genetics. You eat a lot of these experiments.

This is basic science. If your still touting that it hasn't been proven, the missing link could show up at your house and have dinner with you and you will wouldn't believe it.

Originally posted by Rockstrongo37
reply to post by nophun

 

Please allow me to redefine what evidence is....

What I need is evidence from plublished experiments, or evidence from the fossil record, or published evidence from discoveries that are documented and estblished as facts.

Your questions of the "tailbone" and the other statements you have just listed arent evidence at all but mysteries that you are giving your opinions on....remember this is a debate based on facts presented methodically and not just your opinons.

was the Lenski experiment posted here yet? I didn't see it but may have missed it. If not then here you go... www.newscientist.com...

reply to post by Wolfenz


I’m sorry. Your post was hard for me to understand and I misunderstood.

I see what you are saying.

reply to post by Aggie Man


Another prime example of the power of brainwashing from TPTB... erase any trace of intelligent design... God, Creator, All-That-Is; distilled through the power of repeating over and over again those beliefs that other people implant into another's organic mind. I gageduated!

Originally posted by dcflux
reply to post by Aggie Man

 

...power of repeating over and over...

More Like the power of evidence; as opposed to blind denial.

reply to post by nophun

Simple…

Dig a big slime pit.

Fence it in and build observation towers every 25 ft around the perimeter.

Place observers in the towers. 50% of the observers should be Evolution Scientists and the other 50% should be Intelligent Design Theologians.

Watch it until a human evolves from the slime pit.

Call me when the Theologians agree with the Scientists that a human has in fact evolved from the slime pit.

Peace


ETA - One of my favorite clips of Mr. Dawkins






[edit on 19-7-2010 by FearNoEvil]

reply to post by Aggie Man


I have no evidence of evolution or God... of anything... even of what I just posted. Fate, faith, and destiny... I can only assume a position of pliable awareness. TPTB : The Person That Believes.

No disrespect, I am an old product of the left brain institute.

Double post

[edit on 19-7-2010 by Aggie Man]

Originally posted by dcflux
I am an old product of the left brain institute.

As am I. Yet, I still manage to make educated deductions based upon evidence; rather than a professor's "sermon". Funny that I agree with modern science...using logic, reason and empirical evidence.

No offense mind you....I gageduated too.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Again, your little experiment that your stuck on wouldn't work. You can't recreate an entire envirnment. Not only do you have to have reason to adapt and evolve, you need something to adapt an evolve too.
Which is why species live in the specific environments that they do. They needed to adapt to a certain environment. You can't just change the parameters and have something happen. Lets take our pre-historic whale friend again. You had a funky warthog,deer creature, that adapted to water to possibly find a food source, if that was the reason. Teh cause? Lack of food. The change, to become amphibous, that result, to adapt to water. But if it lived in a desert environment, it would of never have become an amphibious creature, it would of used the desert environment. Lets take the giraffe. It has a long neck for two possible reasons, either for fighting, or to get leaves off the top of trees that other animals didn't have access too. Lets go with the food theory for sake of arguement. Teh giraffe needed a more readily available food source with less competition, so it grew a long neck to get the leaves at the top of trees. But what if in the giraffe's environment, trees didn't exist. Then it wouldn't of bothered with the neck. So you can't take a bacteria and change the sunlight or food source in a petri dish and yell at it to race to the finish to a new species.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by worlds_away

 

Off-Topic but related....

Why are human babies SOOOOO annoying? That is a poor survival skill, and a evolution FAIL!

I loved babies until I had a couple. They make you want to throw them out a window? Mine survived somehow. They are 3 and 4 year olds now. But DAM! I am a pretty well adjusted, intelligent guy with a loving family and a good wife. If my babies drove me this crazy, how do any babies survive? You would think evolution would have made them cuter, or quieter, or provided some sleep for the parents, or something?

Also, what is up with fingernails on babies? Evolution should have fixed that! They just scratch themselves and make themselves cry. They hurt when they get a hold of you, and they serve no purpose? Why put a weapon on a baby that can't defend itself anyway?

I think Human Babies are proof AGAINST evolution!

For two bucks you can buy mittens that keep babies from scratching themselves or you. You can also buy nail clippers, or a piece of material to swaddle them. You swaddle a baby, and they are quiet and happy and content. You failed evolution for not figuring that out, not the other way around.

reply to post by Aggie Man


Touche... I was never much for a "sermon", from anyone, myself. It is refreshing to see one that asks the questions behind the questions... so, then, why believe in anything... just allow, live in the present, and enjoy the quest. It is all about the journey and when you have come to a belief, a little bit of the journey is shadowed from your experience. I may be wrong, because I usually am, but then again, by the measure of most, I have seen, done, and been actively involved in more than most others I have ever met. One thing is for certain, the more I know, the more I realize I do not know.


Namaste,

Originally posted by kingofmd

Google Video Link

The whole series is great, but most won't even watch, beings it attacks your faith.

Anyways, at least fast forward to 9:00, he more than proves that the current horse evolution story is laughable

Holy hell, dude. I am not anti-religion at all, but this guy needs to slow down and breathe once in a while.

I'm glad I don't go to this church, I'd wonder how I ended up with 14 shamwows and a collection of useless kitchen appliances.

Originally posted by worlds_away
reply to post by Darth Logan

 

I’ve always found the tornado comparison a bit rough. A tornado is usually thought of as quick. I don’t think we came about here “quickly”. And we are most certainly not perfect.

They say it took tens of thousands of generations to form man from a common ancestor with the ape, from populations of only hundreds or thousands. We don't have these problems with bacteria. A new generation of bacteria grows in as short as 12 minutes or up to 24 hours or more, depending on the type of bacteria and the environment, but typically 20 minutes to a few hours. There are more bacteria in the world than there are grains of sand on all of the beaches of the world , and many grains of sand are covered with bacteria. They exist in just about any environment: heat, cold, dry, wet, high pressure, low pressure, small groups, large colonies, isolated, much food, little food, much oxygen, no oxygen, in toxic chemicals and so on. But they never turn into ANYTHING new. They always remain the same bacteria.

Again, just how hopeless it is, imagine this: On the ground are all the materials needed to build a house... Nails, boards, shingles, windows and so on. Lets say I/anyone, ties a hammer to the wagging tail of a dog and let's him wander about the work site for as long as you please, even for a millions years! The swinging hammer on the dog is as likely to build a house as to a mutation-natural selection is to make a single new working PART in an animal, let alone a new creature!

reply to post by AwakeinNM

It's amusing to me that so many who reject scientific Darwinism seem eager to embrace social Darwinism ("It's your own fault if you are poor...only the strong survive...read Ayn Rand...blah blah blah...")

Curious how that works.

Originally posted by worlds_away
reply to post by DisappearCompletely

 

I would think that evolution MUST be apparent in other species. Unless evolutionists also want to somehow make us more special than other species.

You can research the evolution of many animals. Or look up breeding dogs.

I think you misread my comment. I was referring to the fact that it was said previously that since humans have developed intelligence and a consciousness, then every animal must also have traits of this specific evolution. I was simply correcting the fact that evolution does not have a specific path or purpose, so not every species will have evolved toward what humans have.

reply to post by Darth Logan


A hammer not consciously building a house? Seriously? How does this in any way disprove evolution? You need to drop the comparison of inanimate objects designed by humans and naturally occurring organisms.

Originally posted by FearNoEvil
reply to post by nophun

 

Simple…

Dig a big slime pit.

Fence it in and build observation towers every 25 ft around the perimeter.

Place observers in the towers. 50% of the observers should be Evolution Scientists and the other 50% should be Intelligent Design Theologians.

Watch it until a human evolves from the slime pit.

Call me when the Theologians agree with the Scientists that a human has in fact evolved from the slime pit.

Peace


ETA - One of my favorite clips of Mr. Dawkins






[edit on 19-7-2010 by FearNoEvil]

First off this would be abiogenisis, not evolution. And this idea is as retarded as "Peanut Butter man".


Richard Dawkins 'stumped' was a hoax of sorts. Thanks for coming out.
www.skeptics.com.au...

Plus I have linked a video that shows 2 ways "Evolution adds new information" a few times in these thread.


You will not get more of a reply from me until you start fact checking.

reply to post by nixie_nox


Nixie? You didn't prove anything? You actually supported my experiment. You agreed to everything I said?

So "evolution" happens as an adaptation to conform to an environment, and it happens in the way of mutations, and some of those mutations "stick." OK, so we design an experiment where bacteria are forced to mutate to survive. We seed a Petri dish and then we slowly move one of the necessary resources away from the bacteria and up a teflon tube. We force the bacteria to stiffen, or get sticky or whatever it chooses to do to reach the resource. Or, we coat the resource with something that will require a brand new chemical secretion to dissolve and access. We choose something that the bacteria has the raw materials to build, but has never done so in the past, and we wait and see how many of the bacteria will mutate to survive.

I don't care how you design the experiment, I am not a biologist, but I am confused as to why you say it won't work and then support everything that I proposed? Yes, we can recreate an entire environment in a petri dish. Very simply. Yes we can run through thousands of generations in a petri dish. Very simply and quickly. Yes we can change parameters and force adaptation and mutation and supposedly evolution. It is very simple on a microscopic level. It is just a matter of creating an ideal environment, and then tweaking that environment to force a life or death mutation, and then watch and see how they react.

We already know they will adapt and mutate. The final piece of the experiement is moving them back to an ideal environment and seeing if the next few generations of bacteria retain the mutation or if it goes away. THAT IS THE KEY!

Here it is laid out more succintly:
1. Pick a bacteria with a fast cell division rate and a hearty desire for survival.
2. Design an ideal environment for the bacteria and start a couple of hundred colonies.
3. Slowly introduce challenges to the environment that the bacteria must overcome to survive. We can choose literally hundreds of different parameters here and test them separately.
4. Slowly make the challenge more and more difficult and watch some bacteria die while others mutate and adapt.
5. After many thousands of generations of mutation, we move them back to the original ideal environment. We watch a couple of hundred generations live in paradise.
6. We take these later generations and put them back in the most difficult environment and see if they still have the mutation. If they die, evolution fails. If they live, where unmutated ones cannot live, even though they haven't been in that environment for many generations, then we know evolution occured at a genetic level, and evolution wins!



[edit on 20-7-2010 by getreadyalready]

[edit on 20-7-2010 by getreadyalready]