Whatever happened to FDR's second bill of rights?

reply to post by JonInMichigan


We all have a RIGHT to live. Even if a person does not have a job they should still have food and shelter. I believe we should all put back into soceity somehow even if it is volunteer work or not a job,

reply to post by dreamseeker


Dude, I dont really want to know about reincarnation, because it is complete and utter BS!

Just the fact that you believe in reincarnation and do not understand basic concepts about resource allocation or the concept that resources are limited makes me think that you have an unrealistic life view-and I am being kind.

reply to post by dreamseeker


It is called motivation. If you get hungry enough, wet enough, cold enough, hot enough then you will be motivated to work.

reply to post by JonInMichigan


EVERYONE!

reply to post by ZuluChaka

do you understand the hiearchy of needs?
If you don't have your first needs meet than you can't go beyond that step.

We are in recession and there not enough jobs out there at this point. Motivation is pointless if there are 100 applicants to have job.
If is unfair a blind person to die or someone who is 90 years old because they can't work! Who is going to hire someone who is elderly or disabled in this trouble economy?

reply to post by dreamseeker

If is unfair a blind person to die or someone who is 90 years old because they can't work! Who is going to hire someone who is elderly or disabled in this trouble economy?

I explicitly said that we should take care of disabled people as a society. The real disabled, not the meth heads and people who get their doctors to say they are disabled for a small fee.

As far as the elderly go, it should be first family takes care of them and then if there is no family then society provides for them.

Originally posted by dreamseeker
reply to post by JonInMichigan

 

It is about basic human needs and decency.

I just want to be clear. If I could wave a magic want and everyone could sit home and eat manna from heaven and just be happy and relax and everything provided for them, while also having the freedom create things and give them away for free and make art and music….I would. (ok…it was a run-on sentence)

I really really would. I hate coming to work everyday. I would love it.

But this is reality. This is the real world and you need to get a grip on it. When all of the little baby turtles hatch and head for the sea, not all of them make it there.

Not every skinny Bambi makes it though the long cold winter.

Not every human it going to make it in this world. But, we can help each other voluntarily once we have our own houses in order. Once we have made sure those in our own care are taken care of.

If my taxes, SS, and all these other things weren’t being taken from me so that people can game the system (and they do...constantly)… I could help those in my immediate community with my surplus. Humans care about other humans and will not let them suffer and die. But when everything has been taken from you via taxation to support entitlements, there is nothing left to give. That’s the point where you can’t even pull your own family in the cart.

It’s very sad that you can’t understand that this concept of progressive taxation and social justice is just BS. Those who promote it don’t do it for the betterment of mankind. These are educated people pushing this stuff and they do it knowing full well it will fail. Why? (here is the conspiracy part)… because once you become beholden to your master for food and shelter, they have your VOTE for life. No one will ever vote for the guy who wants to take your basic needs away.

If you were never given them, they can never be taken away. Think about that for a while and hopefully your learn something about how the real world works.









[edit on 7-7-2010 by JonInMichigan]

Originally posted by dreamseeker
reply to post by JonInMichigan

 

We all have a RIGHT to live. Even if a person does not have a job they should still have food and shelter. I believe we should all put back into soceity somehow even if it is volunteer work or not a job,

I give up. You are hopeless. What is the difference between having a job that you don't get paid for but are forced to work and giving up a portion of your income for a job you do get paid to work?

I not expecting you to grasp what I said so I bring it down to a 5th grade level for you (I have a 5th and 6th grader at home):

If you work 40 hours paid. Then you work 10 hours unpaid (mandatory volunteerism like has been suggested), how is that different from working 40 hours paid and having 1/5 of the money taken away from you to pay for some entitlement.

And you might say “oh no…I wouldn’t force people who volunteer” Ok…hello….people can volunteer right now for free. Why don’t they? Because they work so damn much to keep up with taxes and inflation caused by borrowing to provide entitlements! The rest of the time maybe they would like to see their families?

There is no logic to your argument. It is just “oh gosh I wish all those baby turtles could make it to the sea”

They can’t. They won’t. And no amount of wishing will make your utopia come true.

Originally posted by dreamseeker
reply to post by JonInMichigan

 

EVERYONE!

Right Everyone. That's what a right is.

How many families can you support? Just yours? Your's and mine?

How many would you like me to support? Two? Ten?

How many do I support now?

How about this... My two kids 11 & 12 where adopted at 1 & 2 years old from the "system" in Detroit. I raised them as my own for their whole lives. Food, shelter, toys, sports, school... obviously.

What have you done for society?

Why are you such a head in the clouds idealistic dunce? Are you on drugs or just stupid?

One family can NOT pay to support 3 more families. People can't pay for themselves these days if you haven't noticed but yet you are asking others to pay. Right now there is someone on the very edge of not making it and making them pay for someone else pushes them over the edge where they have to "get on the cart"....once they are on the cart they are now taking money rather than providing money into the endowment system. So the people still paying will have to pay even more. Eventually everyone will be ON THE CART! DANG IT! JUST GET IT ALREADY!



[edit on 7-7-2010 by JonInMichigan]

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

What the hell is wrong with this? We used to actually practice this with ANTI-TRUST LAWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well......at least we did before Reagan............apparently....we were a communist country before Reagan!!!!!!

reply to post by David9176


I agree with you 100% This is not a human right though and really didn't make any sense being in that list.

There were anti-trust laws and there needs to be again!!! We just need the laws on the books enforced. Monopolies are pulling the strings via support of candidates who won't stand up to monopolies. Whole other problem. Check out who's funding Harry Reid...drug companies... a big thank you for the health care bill he pushed through.

And there you have it, progressive politics at work.

reply to post by JonInMichigan


I am not the one who is lost. There will be others on here who will agree with me. I am going to make a prediction here and now if the USA does not change their ways; then it will fail in the next 10 years. We are at a pivotal point now either we continue being selfish and only look out for ourselves or we come together as humans to fight for LIFE.
This goes for any other country as well.

reply to post by David9176


there should not be monopolies. A monopoly only drives prices up due to no competition.

reply to post by JonInMichigan


Too bad it was progressive politics that brought America free-markets and free-trade in the first place. From there, it only took the corporate construct of Ronald Reagan to make everybody believe that full blown privatization and deregulation was the best way to go.

[edit on 7-7-2010 by Someone336]

reply to post by JonInMichigan

a big thank you for the health care bill he pushed through.

The reason we have a "corporate" health care bill is because there weren't enough "Progressive" Democrats who would vote for a "public option."

You are correct though...the health insurance industry LOBBIED for MANDATES...they wanted it mandatory for everyone to buy insurance...and big pharma cut a deal with the government long before the b ill ever became law.

I'm not getting where the Progressive thing is coming from in your posts...but other than that...I absolutely agree with you.

reply to post by dreamseeker

there should not be monopolies. A monopoly only drives prices up due to no competition.

well...kinda. I think you meant that monopolies drive prices down to make small businesses uncompetitive.....then they can jack prices to whatever they please.

Monopolies are extremely harmful to any free society. The largest companies will continue to swallow the smallest and continue to become more powerful and control more the economy.

It's extremely dangerous and it's a huge part of the problem we face today.

People wouldn't be asking for more help with social programs if they weren't losing their asses. I don't like the fact that so many assume that people just want a hand out....I think they are wrong.

I take pride in providing for my family...and I'm sure most others do. I may not have millions of dollars and a fancy car or much of anything for that matter....not even a house....but I can feed my family.

If it came to the point where I couldn't...I would do what I could to take care of them....whether it be by government help or not....and I think just about everyone else here would...regardless of what they state here.

reply to post by dreamseeker

I am going to make a prediction here and now if the USA does not change their ways; then it will fail in the next 10 years. We are at a pivotal point now either we continue being selfish and only look out for ourselves or we come together as humans to fight for LIFE.

I could not agree more. If we do not massively cut the size and cost of government we are doomed in the next 10 years or so. This is why we must get rid of and/or eliminate the entitlements in this country that we cannot afford as well as trim down the number of services the government provides and the union benefits from government workers. To be fair, we must also cut down defense spending as well.

I say it is better for a few people to suffer than the whole country go down the drain and we and the rest of the world suffers due to that.

[edit on 7-7-2010 by ZuluChaka]

reply to post by ZuluChaka


It is better that NO ONE suffers! What programs do you feel should be cut?
For me I feel defense budget should be cut down and bailouts should never have happened.
I hope you do not believe believe in stealing from the poor to feed the rich.

reply to post by David9176


I feel health care should be free. I don't agree that health insurance should be mandatory because the reason people don't have it is because they can not afford it.
With car insurance you could choice not to have a car but with health insurance; well you can't choose not to have a psychical body.

reply to post by dreamseeker


Like I said earlier SS should be phased out over the next 15 years. Raise the retirement age for anyone who is 60 or under now. Remove Bush's Medicare drug bill. Cut defense spending. Stop giving a free education, food, medical care, etc to illegal immigrants. Eliminate the department of education from the federal government.

Cut the size of state and local governments.

Privatise as much as you can.

There are tons of things you could do.