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Whatever happened to FDR's second bill of rights?

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posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 03:21 PM
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reply to post by NewlyAwakened
 


One doesn't need economics to understand basic human needs. We don't all need big screen tvs or yatches but we all need food,water and shelter. In order to get those things we need a source of income in our system.
This is all I am saying. It would work because it is just basic nature? We all have this instinct to fight for survival.
If you make people fight harder and harder for it the concequences will be very bad.




posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by dreamseeker
 


Yes, it is that "me" mentality that is what is shattering this nation.

Let us consider this:



Source: Who Rules America? Wealth, Income, and Power

Just look at that top 1% versus the bottom 80%!

Now look at this:



Source: Where Your Income Tax Money Really Goes

If you want to see something shocking, go to Costofwar.com, and you can see how much money the war is costing the nation, your state, your city, your household, and yourself. Even better, it shows how many social programs, ranging from student loans to firefighters, could be payed for with this outrageous financial sum.

Somehow the America public has no moral qualms with paying for bullets and bombs and the means to wage foreign wars, yet when it comes to the livelihood of fellow Americans, the very notion is an unforgivable sin.


[edit on 7-7-2010 by Someone336]



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
 


My part time jobs are sub contracted so I only make $200 per month total. I have loans for school that I must pay back. I rarely get much of an excess.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by dreamseeker
reply to post by ZuluChaka
 


I would say retirement age should be 60. Working hard for over 40 years should be enough for anyone.


60 LOL!

Why dont you ask Greece how retiring their workforce at 60 is workng out for them.

Lets do some math here.

Ok so lets say you start working at the average age of 20. You work until you are 60, that is 40 years that you are paying into the system. Then you retire and 60 and live to say 85. So you spent 45 years of your life not paying in and 40 years paying in. Do you really think that will work for an entire society?

Plus you could retire at say 40. If you lived frugally and invested wisely. You could retire at 40 without any help from society. There are lots of opportunities in the world when you quit looking for the government to hold your hand through life and bandage up your boo-boo's



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by NewlyAwakened
 


Wait a minute it is utopian to not want people to die?
I have respect for life. This not does mean people will be relieved of suffering 100% but it means they will live a more balanced life. What I mean be this is they will be able to experience more than just suffering. What kind of life would be if someone suffered all the time.
A utopia to mean would be more like the venus project;which is a great idea there are many evolutions to take place before this would be possible.
I don't see the harm in everyone having at least a room for themselves and food. What is wrong with that?



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by dreamseeker
 


Look I understand where you are coming from I do, I was born poor, Bologna and cheese, Pinto Beans and Ham, Chicken and dumplings, those were are meals... I hated and swore my kids wouldnt eat that #. now they dont, Now I have steak with the beans and rice. I am not rich I am comfortable. Should I give up my comfort for people who refuse to get a job? Or abuse the system? Hell no I wont, and neither should anyone else.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 03:31 PM
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reply to post by ZuluChaka
 


My father retired at age 45 and he had a pension. He only works a part time job now because he wants to have something to do.
You are way off base. I am sure you will learn with age what is more important.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 03:33 PM
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reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
 


So we should a punish a whole bunch of good people for the bad ones? Most people I know are hardworking, deserving people.
It doesn't matter because everyone has a right to life regardless.
You don't have to give up anything unless you are overly wealthy. I don't believe in taking from the poor to provide for the poor.
I am talking about the rich having less. Would a rich person really die if the don't have that vacation home or private airplane or yatcht?



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by dreamseeker
reply to post by ZuluChaka
 


My father retired at age 45 and he had a pension. He only works a part time job now because he wants to have something to do.
You are way off base. I am sure you will learn with age what is more important.


Well since I am apparently so young and naive, why dont you explain in detail how you plan to pay for all of this as well keep the country economically viable??



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by ZuluChaka
 


My idea would to bring back all the outsourced jobs. Many of those customer service jobs can be done from home. They can even be independent contracting jobs this would help both the people and companies. People will use their phones, electricity and there would be no overhead costs.
Give people a chance to work to make ends meet. To give more people oppurtunities people can work 30 hours per week. Prices could be based on income so people can put more back into the economy. (house payments, rent, car payments, utlities etc.)
CEOs could take pay cuts; even congress could as well. Most people in politics were already rich before they got in.
No matter what people say as long as people pay into social security there will always be money in it. The government has stolen from ss so they need to put money back into it. If the government would stop the fruitless wars and bailing out banks that would also save money.
Money is the problem and greed. Money=debt because money is created from thin air. Once it is created from the federal bank it is owed back to the bank.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by dreamseeker
 


(I haven't posted in months but I couldn't let this one go.)


Awesome! FDR rocks man!

I totally did NOT want to come back to work yesterday after the long vacation. I dragged my butt out of bed and came in though. I wish we had this 2nd bill of rights! I could just quit my job and happily stay home in my free house with my free food and my free healthcare. Do you think they would give me a free car too? That would be totally great! Yeah!

What? You want to quit your job too? Hey wait…all my neighbors said they want to quit their jobs too….uh oh. Crap! Who’s going to be left to pay for everyone’s free houses and free food? Um…where does that government money come from anyway? Oh yeah the magic money tree in the sky!

It takes just two seconds of common sense to realize that anybody who believes that these so called rights are a good idea is a total moron.

Maybe common sense just doesn’t work for you. Let’s try looking at this a different way.

There’s a cart. You can sit in it and ride or you can pull it. The rights that we all hold so dear, that you seem to equate to the rights for free stuff, is the right to be a free person and control your own destiny.

Freedom says that, if you would like, you can choose to allow your wife, kids, mother, etc to get in the cart you are pulling. You can even pull a couple people in this country who can’t do for themselves and have no family to pull them. Not too many though…you can only pull so many. The moment you make it a “right“ to get on that cart and 100 people climb on, you are going to hurt your back. Then YOU will get on the cart too. Who’s left pulling the cart? Who? WHO?!!! (a whisper in the peanut gallery says “nobody”?) RIGHT!!! NOBODY WILL BE PULLING THE DAMN CART!!!

Don’t you friggin’ get it?! Why can you understand common sense?

Who would pull the cart once everyone is sitting on the cart? “Uh….baaaa duhh…. Gee Wally….why ain’t da cart movin’ no more?” “I dunno kid…let’s just sit here for a while and maybe it will start movin’ again.”

How can I pay for a house for me and my family and also 20 other families?

I just want to be free and left alone to help my own family. How can I be so selfish to just let others fail? Because they won’t!!!!

Faced with death they will get their lazy friggin’ asses off the cart and start help pulling. They few people who actually need help or are someone’s ward (wife, kids, elderly parents, invalid cousin, whatever) will be on the cart. But you can NEVER EVER make that a right or everything comes to a complete stop. I’m sure the OP would say, “oh no the government would MAKE all able bodied people work. They would assign them their guaranteed job. They would determine how much they would get paid and it wouldn’t be much because everyone needs these basic rights.” Am I wrong? Isn’t that would you would say OP? Well guess what…. Guess what’s missing there. IT’S CALLED FRIGGIN’ FREEDOM YOU @#$%^&*#$% IDIOT!!!!

I have lost all hope in America. Threads like this have proven to me that the OP and people like the OP are dumber than a box of rocks and I wish you would just sit down and shut the hell up because you have ZERO COMMON SENSE!!!! NONE! If you can’t understand the basic logic outlined above then there is absolutely no hope for you.


[edit on 7-7-2010 by JonInMichigan]



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by dreamseeker
reply to post by ZuluChaka
 


My idea would to bring back all the outsourced jobs. Many of those customer service jobs can be done from home. They can even be independent contracting jobs this would help both the people and companies. People will use their phones, electricity and there would be no overhead costs.


How you going to get the companies to move jobs back here where they face more regulation, taxes, and higher wages?



Give people a chance to work to make ends meet. To give more people oppurtunities people can work 30 hours per week.


So you want to hear some ladies kids screaming because their sibling took their toy as you call for customer service?

How are company owners going to insure these people are being productive?

How are you going to get companies to pay more per hour so a guy can make a living working 30 hours as opposed to 40-60?



Prices could be based on income so people can put more back into the economy. (house payments, rent, car payments, utlities etc.)


So whose going to eat the difference on the cost of those things, between what a person could afford vs what they bought?

Why would people not take the easiest lowest paying jobs in this case?



CEOs could take pay cuts; even congress could as well. Most people in politics were already rich before they got in.


How are you going to get them to take pay cuts? Isnt their pay based on what the board of directors and share holders allow?

Why would they not just go work in another country where they can make more?

Does this also apply to private business owners?



No matter what people say as long as people pay into social security there will always be money in it. The government has stolen from ss so they need to put money back into it. If the government would stop the fruitless wars and bailing out banks that would also save money.
Money is the problem and greed. Money=debt because money is created from thin air. Once it is created from the federal bank it is owed back to the bank.


So what happens when very shortly we get to a point that everyone being taxed cannot cover the expense of social security and medicare payments due?

Its 100 trillion dollars in liablilties, everything in the country added up isnt worth that. Seriously.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by ZuluChaka
 


Honestly it is more about soul age. Your soul age to me seems young. For all I know you may be 70 but you sound younger than me and I am 35.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by dreamseeker
 


what
in
the
hell
is
soul
age?



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by dreamseeker
reply to post by ZuluChaka
 


My idea would to bring back all the outsourced jobs.


Yes...and what would make those jobs come back? Cutting corporate taxes in America and having a better trade policy. Then they would just magically move back because it would be cheaper to do business here.

Now how in the heck would we be able to give out free crap with lower taxes...you can't.

You have no consistancy in your positions. They are absolutely incompatible.

Or are you saying the government would FORCE companies to move jobs back? You want to have government tell private industry what to do perhaps?

That is a laugh riot! Just say it… say “I’m a communist. I want a dictatorial government and I want it to wipe my ass from cradle to grave.”

Ridiculous! Disgusting! …and the worst part, it won’t even work. I would just move my company to the foreign country COMPLETELY (headquarters and all) and sell the stuff to the USA without anyone telling me what to do.

Why not move it to a communist country at that point. Where’s the opportunity and freedom in America at that point!?




[edit on 7-7-2010 by JonInMichigan]



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by JonInMichigan
 


oh brother.
I am not saying give everyone a free ride. This is not all or nothing here; there are shades of gray in between.
It is about basic human needs and decency.
What is wrong with people being given an oppurtunity at a decent life?
By the way there was a time when outsourcing did not exist. Why should we protect the rich over the poor?



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by dreamseeker
reply to post by JonInMichigan
 


oh brother.
I am not saying give everyone a free ride. This is not all or nothing here; there are shades of gray in between.
It is about basic human needs and decency.
What is wrong with people being given an oppurtunity at a decent life?
By the way there was a time when outsourcing did not exist. Why should we protect the rich over the poor?


I suspected you would say that.

Once again, zero consistancy. Do you understand that a “right” means that everyone is entitled to it?

That is a RIGHT. A basic right means that EVERYONE is entitled to it.

So you must not think that these should be rights then.

You made my point and thank you for coming around to my way of thinking.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 04:17 PM
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reply to post by ZuluChaka
 


www.helpself.com...

I believe in reincarnation. that is beside the point just do some research. Just the fact you asked that questions means you are either an infant or young soul. This means I could talk to for hours about these concepts and you may never truly understand.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by dreamseeker
 


Outsourcing didnt exist previously because the logistics werent in place to make it work. Things like voip and low cost, long span data conectivity werent around. Also, countries like china and india didnt have a developed enough workforce to cover the jobs. Also, there werent free trade agreements all over the world.

We live in a global economy. This isnt the 1940's. That was 70 years ago.

Let me give you a great example of outsourcing. Procter and Gamble is actually outsourcing high end financial jobs to costa rica. There is no benefit to doing it here, because they can get the exact same results at a lower cost by outsourcing it.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by dreamseeker
 


Before you even bother… I’ll just answer your next reply before you write it.

“no no no…someone will decide who is entitled to have that right…” (Never mind the fact that a right is a right and everyone is entitled to have a "right". You just don’t understand the word right and it’s not your fault…the schools suck now.)

Ok…so I’ll play…who decides who is entitled to eat and have a home? You tell us?


[edit on 7-7-2010 by JonInMichigan]






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