It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Whatever happened to FDR's second bill of rights?

page: 5
7
<< 2  3  4    6  7  8 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 05:30 PM
link   
reply to post by dreamseeker
 


There is no such thing as free healthcare. It just means instead of you paying for it someone else is by being over taxed.

Healthcare will only be free when doctors and nurses work for free and when private entities provide free buildings and equiptment for the hospitals.

Do you really think that will happen?




posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 05:33 PM
link   
reply to post by ZuluChaka
 


NO SS should not be phased out what about the disabled and the elderly? Is it better we just become homeless or die?
Social welfare programs need to stay in place but we need to figure out the illegal alien problem as well.
We can't punish the good people for a few bad or for illegal aliens. There are a lot of levels to this but at the end of all this we all humans.
We must always think what is the most HUMANE thing to do.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 05:49 PM
link   
Woodrow Wilson was President in 1913 when the Federal Reserve Act was ratified.

Not FDR.

Here we are 70 years later after FDR and...

Look where we are today with our current system we have 20% REAL unemployment, 1 out of 4 homes in foreclosure, a bankrupt Govt. and a dollar so diminished by inflation it's worth only 4 cents of what it could purchase in 1913.

The US Military is an example of a working system which provides jobs, food and shelter for all.
It isn't luxurious but their system fundamentally works. 0% unemployment.

People could have a decent job providing enough to live off of.
We have thousands of bridges in disrepair,we could have our current unemployed working on fixing them instead of waiting for extended unemployment benefits.

The Second Bill of Rights was intended to work along these guidelines. Everyone had a job to do and got paid to do it and not just a govt handout.


Plain and Simple.

'Nuff Said....



[edit on 7-7-2010 by nh_ee]



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 05:51 PM
link   
reply to post by ZuluChaka
 


No I don't think our society will be enlightened right now to have a society without money.
Really there has to be a balance. Free health care makes sense because it is best to keep people to put back into soceity.
There is no such thing as a a perfect system; there are only evolving systmes.
So if health care should not be free then why do you want Medicare to be cut? Medicare is NOT free. A person pays $110 per month for it.
I am even for low cost health care where is based off a person's income. For example a person pays 2% of their income to health care. A person pays 10-30% of their income to housing, 5% to utlities and 5% to insurance if they have a car.
Food prices will be based off the lowest wage possible in the USA to keep the food system running.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 05:56 PM
link   
reply to post by nh_ee
 


In the movie Zeigist Addendum it states that it $1 in 1930s was equal to $21 today.
The dollar has really diminished and it will be harder and harder to catch up.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 07:26 PM
link   
Reply to post by dreamseeker
 


Thank God FDR did not get this cap through. Don't be naïve in taking the "rights" at face value. Free anything or the right to food etc of course sounds good, but I, and hopefully most people, don't want the government controlling all those aspects of our lives.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 07:31 PM
link   
reply to post by dreamseeker
 


Yes, due to the flagrant printing of money by the Banking Cartel owned FED.

Before the gold coinage was recalled by the Govt to pay off the FED in '33 , A $20 Dollar gold piece contained about 1 ounce of Gold.

Just putting it into perspective, an ounce of Gold today takes $1200. of today's Dollars !




posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 08:08 PM
link   
reply to post by dreamseeker
 


You like the idea of a pure welfare state where nobody has to earn anything, it is just given to them?

How do you propose to fund this Shangri-La? What do you do with the people who refuse to work? What do you do about those who work harder than others and put in more effort? What about those who refuse to study in school?

The same thing always happens. Apathy sets in the Ruling Class uses force.

FDR did manage to extend the Great Depression in the same method that is extending this one. There are no free rides. You give something for nothing to people and at some point, somebody pays. At some point it falls apart.

The end result of these wonderful sounding theories is always the same. Two classes. The ruling class who lives a life of luxury on the government dime and a working class that is forced into poverty because there is no motivation to be productive or hard working. You work hard, you get nothing special in return. No incentive to create as the Ruling Class gets all the fruits of people idea's and inventions. Since you rely on the Government for everything you need, they have absolute control over you.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 08:19 PM
link   
reply to post by dreamseeker
 


In the 1960's a head of household earned maybe 6 to 12 thousand a year. Now, I average about 50$ an hour. Apples and Oranges. Minimum Wage now would have been enough to live in a new home and drive a new car in the 1960's where my experience with being paid for work began.

You have to adjust the dollars for that to know the truth and unfortunately people pushing political agendas tend to leave out information.

What is real is this. When I was a teenager, a Middle Class household was a small house with maybe three bedrooms and one newer car in the driveway. One Adult worked and paid for everything. A large house and two cars in the driveway along with a new fangled Color TV put you into the upper crust.

Now it takes two working adults to attain our new Middle Class. A large house, two new cars in the drive, A TV in every bedroom, a couple of computers and the ability to eat out at restaurants at will.

You simply can not compare the times in that manner and arrive at any truths. If you work at Burger King, you will earn more in a year than my Father did at the end of his life as a highly skilled worker for a Union. Apples and Oranges.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 09:55 PM
link   
reply to post by Sf18443
 


Where does it say the government will control us? I am for these rights at face value.
If we can't have social welfare or work for millions or people then what? Roits,crime, social unrest,choas. What if unemployment reaches 20%, then 30 then 40 then 50 and soon it is rare to have a job. Then what does 50% of the population just die?
I believe if FDR did not step in and create the programs the depression would have lasted longer and been worse.
I am not for government control over the people. I am not for social classes; rich, middle and poor.
People are misunderstanding what I am focusing on is just the basic rights for people to live a life. People need housing, food and a way to pay their bills very simple.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 09:57 PM
link   
reply to post by Blaine91555
 


wow $50 per hour. That is a huge amount even in modern times. You probably don't see where I am coming from. To understand what poverty you have to have been there at some point.
Maybe that is why some people are not being empathic.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 10:02 PM
link   
reply to post by Blaine91555
 


this is not at all what I want. I am NOT advocating any type of communism or system that is unfair.
If people read the orginal post they will understand. Read the post and take it at face value.
Then tell me what you think at means at face value without adding anything into it.
The system I agree with is based more upon basic human needs and everyone living a decent life. There is NO rich or poor in the fairest system.
I never agree with the haves and have nots that is why I am against capitalism.

[edit on 7-7-2010 by dreamseeker]



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 10:13 PM
link   
I’m sorry, I just can’t have any respect for you at all. I’m telling you that it won’t work. That’s not an opinion, it’s a fact! Reread my post about the cart. Who will pull it when everything is free?
It can’t be a right or everyone gets it. In other words, if everyone is promised a house, food, and healthcare from the day they are born then why would they work to pay for it. For every person who gets a house without working, a person who works has to pay for two houses. That is incentive enough not to go to work. As that vicious cycle continues, no one works. They last person out has to pay for 350,000,000 people’s houses. You just can’t seem to understand common sense.
It’s a nice happy feeling to think you could make that system work but it can’t.
You already said, “we wouldn’t just give everyone those things, only the needy” (paraphrasing)…
Well then it’s not a right. A “right” is something that entitles everyone to have it, or it’s not a right, it’s just an entitlement. Free speech, gun ownership, a fair trial…those are rights. So you don’t even know what the word “right” means to be perfectly honest.

We each just have to be free, work to take care of our own, and if there is enough left over, take care of those in our community. I have two kids adopted out of the “system” and an abused dog from a shelter. I also take care of my extended family as best I can. All these people want to blame society that their dad left their mom penniless and pregnant instead of facing his responsibility. Stop blaming others for the moral decline of society. It’s all about “me” to the woman who had sex out of wedlock and it’s all about “me” to the dad who never got a job and took care of all those kids he made while out having a good time at the bar every night. Yet you people are the first ones saying that I’m the selfish one for trying to help the people in my life first, the ones who have put an honest effort into their lives. You want to take MY society away. My society has one very important right, FREEDOM, and your plan (FDR’s plan) destroys that to help what is characterized as the poor and meek. BULL#! Most of those people are just slackers and losers who are jealous that they never had any initiative in their lives to exercise their freedom to work and be responsible adults. When that happens there will be so few people with needs beyond what they can afford or that, in the care of an elderly person, actually have kids who will take care of them, that society can easily take care of them and won’t mind doing it. You need an ethical society before you can have anything. Personal responsibility is key and you’ll never have it until you kick fit, working aged people off the damn doles. When that happens, the chick who sluts her ass around the bar will think twice about it because she will know there won’t be a safety net. When the guys stop getting laid so easily at the bar by all the welfare mamas, they might think about actually having a real family. You libs just don’t get it and never will. The problem is you and your attitude towards life. The problem is yours and the rest of us who work and live like we are supposed to are NOT going to take this crap and it WILL come to revolution if this rhetoric continues in this country. We are not going to have our rights taken away by your desire to be lazy and uneducated. You are all just making excuses for wanting to sit around high all day waiting for someone else to pick up where your parents left off when you made your choice to sit around and get stoned all day.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 10:31 PM
link   
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet

Thats all fine and dandy, I am not a rich person at all. But you cannot feed,house, and cloth every single American nor could you do it throughout the world. Its a nice idea on paper, but it simple can not and will not happen...


Oh I beg to differ. The total US military budget for this year, including these for the secret military, is 708 billion

People will work for their future if they know that they own their future.

I'm concerned about posters who think these things can't be done because of the 'if it's free why would they work for it' philosophy. It doesn't make sense. Could it be that property simply costs too much and needs too much paper money to pay into it?

If people have power, they will have pride. They will work for themselves.







[edit on 7-7-2010 by star in a jar]



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 10:35 PM
link   

Originally posted by star in a jar
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet

Thats all fine and dandy, I am not a rich person at all. But you cannot feed,house, and cloth every single American nor could you do it throughout the world. Its a nice idea on paper, but it simple can not and will not happen...


Oh I beg to differ. The total US military budget for this year, including these for the secret military, is 708 billion

People will work for their future if they know that they own their future.





What's your point? There are 350 million people in this country. You think you can take care of every one of them for $2,000 each?

Who is going to earn money to put into the system when everything is free? Is there no common sense left in the world?



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 10:38 PM
link   

Originally posted by dreamseeker
reply to post by Blaine91555
 


I never agree with the haves and have nots that is why I am against capitalism.



Lazy people with no ambition are always the ones who say that.

Just like the loser of a sports event will say that winning isn't important. If winning wasn't important then no one would care about sports.

Let's have no more anything. Let's have no tests in school, let's have no winners of sporting events, let's all work for free and run around naked eating the bark off of trees. You guys just seem like a bunch of lazy stoners to me.

Added:

People like me who worked hard at min wage jobs to save the money to go to college and contribute to society will get fed up and quit. We are NOT going to go to work for those of you who do nothing. No matter how much you believe that we will drag ourselves in every morning just to give our money away, you are wrong. I personally will just jump on the doles, or the cart as I like to call it, and let some other idiot pull me around. Then I can just sit around all day getting stoned and playing video games like you guys! There won't be anyone left working when it's all said and done and you just can't seem to grasp that. I have no idea why you don't get this very basic point.


[edit on 7-7-2010 by JonInMichigan]



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 10:44 PM
link   
reply to post by JonInMichigan


What's your point? There are 350 million people in this country. You think you can take care of every one of them for $2,000 each?

Who is going to earn money to put into the system when everything is free? Is there no common sense left in the world?


350 million Americans are not homeless, only about 2 million. The problem of homelessness can be significantly resolved if the Government would build low cost apartments for families in urban centers, for example.

Things can not be 'free' I agree but the basics like healthy food and housing, should be sponsored so they are low cost.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 10:49 PM
link   
reply to post by JonInMichigan
 


Um, lazy stoners? I have payed for everything I have ever owned, including my education.

I have a healthy respect for the markets; they are the force that allows us to be something other than a stone-age society.

However...

When 1% of the GDP is executive bonuses, something is wrong.

When mega-corporations get ridiculous tax-breaks and bail-outs at taxpayers expenses, we are working in a broken system.

When our government destroys small business with sanctioned monopolies (corporations), wealth cannot and will never be properly distributed according to the whims of the market.

With our defense budget, we could alleviate world hunger.

With a universal currency to do business in, we could end our necessary trade deficit and rebuild our economy.

With tariffs, a progressive income tax, and no imperialistic designs, we could build towards the ideas displayed in the Second Bill of Rights.


The Second Bill of Rights is not a Utopian, pie-in-the-sky dream. It could easily be reality, if we only saw past the lenses of greed.

[edit on 7-7-2010 by Someone336]



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 10:53 PM
link   

Then I can just sit around all day getting stoned and playing video games like you guys! There won't be anyone left working when it's all said and done and you just can't seem to grasp that. I have no idea why you don't get this very basic point.


Well you could do that but your carbon footprint would be really low and either after all the cost of the hydroponic equipment or paying off your dealers, cost for these games, etc, you'd just be a vegetable until your eventual death from malnutrition after eating kraft dinners, in your one-room suite in the tenements... Well you get the picture.

I suspect that once the ills of society are removed people will have regained their prides and will to live, and they will work- for their future. They're not going to be productive members of society if they know the elite are stealing their and their children's wealth for pointless wars and D.U.M.Bs and such.

[edit on 7-7-2010 by star in a jar]



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 10:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by dreamseeker

Here are highlights of what he proposed. I like this idea and feel it would solve a lot of problems. Is it too late to try to get this enacted now?

"The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education."

(www.ustaxreform.us...)


Dreamseeker,

You forget a very important maxim.

The government big enough to give you everything is also big enough to take it away.

Ask yourself, How the hell could they afford to give this stuff? You wanna pay more in taxes? I dont!

A fair wage? By who's yardstick?

Fair trade? We have that WHEN the rules are followed by a corrupt judiciary and legislative branch.

Adequate food and recreation. Really? When did recreation become a fed resposibilty?

You are supporting big government. Big government equals big brother. These guys suck bleeding hearts like you into the mix because "its the right thing to do". BS.

Federal responsiblity for education? Really? Have you seen the state of affairs in education lately? 10's of thousands of dollars per kid and they're too damn stupid to even know 1 of the 3 axis powers? Education should be at a local level. Dump the teachers unions and any "educational"
offices. Dump the EPA, the IRS, and about 80% of the rest of ANY federal office created after 1900.

I'm not even getting into health care.

Great Society my ass!

[edit on 7/7/10 by felonius]



new topics

top topics



 
7
<< 2  3  4    6  7  8 >>

log in

join