The pharmacutical industry's hijacking of medical marijuana

reply to post by Nutter

You might want to check your facts:

You might not want to cherry pick your facts and look them up yourself. I like the strawman though, i never said anything about selling without a licence. If i told you that you could drive to the store and purchase beer would you tell me I was wrong for not mentioning that you had to get a drivers licence?You can distill without a licence and you can also sell legaly. If you want to sell you have to get a permit and pay tax. Paying tax does not mean that you do not get a proffit.

reply to post by airspoon


So marijuana has no side effects? What chemicals is "big pharma" adding to medical marijuana?

reply to post by zaiger


I'm not saying that marijuana doesn't have any side affects, only that it has far fewer side effects than most medicines for the same ailments. This is not even mentioning that it works much better.

As far as big pharma wanting to put chemicals into medical marijuana, that is what this entire thread is about. I suggest you read the OP.

--airspoon

reply to post by airspoon


What side effects does it have? What ailments does it treat? What medicine is it better than?

Wow a very well made thread ! Never will Big Pharma ever let that happen because they can not put a pattent on a natural plant , the other thing is that anything made chemically will never react like something that is natural and even if they did make something simular it doesn't pay Big Pharma to cure people , thats a no no (Money, Money) have a cure no more money , so they keep you alive for awhile to sell pills thats their only goal ! So sad !
Look up phoenix tears website an extract that cures all..... and proven by some doctors forced by this man to appear in a federal court to tell about their patients being cured , and noting happened except they have been harrassing the man that brought it to light .

PS I spoke to the man myself and to one of the persons cured of a deadly cancer that he was told their was nothing left to do , and he is alive today because he followed the advice of that man.
Hopefully the day will come that the truth will overturn the greedy money grabbers .

reply to post by zaiger


Listen, I'm not going to go off topic by promoting the use of marijuana. However, narcotic medicines such as opiates and synthetics have numerous side effects to include death. Other side effects are physical dependence, liver damage, addiction and blood pressure to name a few, though there are many more.

With marijuana, overdose is extremely unlikely if not impossible (though I'm sure anything is possible) and if it isn't smoked, the harmful effects to one's body are probably no more than a potatoe or vegetable. When taking chemicals such as opiates, the brain changes to a state that will never return to normal and this I have personal experience with.

Though I don't smoke weed because it's illegal in my state, my doctors have told me that it would probably help me and even went so far as to recommend that I move somewhere that it is legal. Do opiates help for pain? Sure, but not nearly as long and as good as marijuana would.

So to relate this back in with the OP, it is a very threatening to big pharma. The billions that they make pushing pain medicines alone would surely suffer as people venture a more natural and less harmful alternative that couldn't be limited to big pharma, unless they succeed at making a pill with the same benefits and getting states to outlaw the actual plant.

Here is the truth, marijuana is not nearly as harmful as the dangerous chemicals that are used to treat pain. Many people's lives are ruined from the addiction, their banks are emptied at the cost and their bodies are damaged from the side effects. Those opiates that they push on us, are extremely harmful and we have to jump through hoops just to get them. For instance, I had to sign papers and gave my information over to the government to include what I assumed was a background check. I then had to go through the hassle of going into a doctor every month, only to put a harmful chemical in my body. Many people would rather no go through all of that when there is a much better alternative on almost every front and that is the threat to big pharma.

--airspoon

You can´t overdoze of marijuana, you would have to ingest , im not 100% on this but from what i recall it was 2600pounds within 10minutes.

Weed should be legal and everyone knows this fact, it has been proven again and again that it is only illegal becouse of the big corperations decided that the plant would couse harm to there "money" industry.

The benefits of the plant far outdoes iteslf in all fields, but seing as medicinal would affect big pharma corp, wood would effect the lumber industry, and ofc fuel wich would affect the oil industry. These company´s have such a deathhold over congress that there is no chance that this would be alloved.

Medicen (pills,drugs) bad
Mother earth (plant,ganja) good

I had to take a pill 2 years ago, known sideaffects were . nousia, fainting, incresed heart temp, liver failure, Temporary insanity. Yeah that´s just normal aint it



[edit on 7-7-2010 by Spacedman13]

reply to post by airspoon


You know Airspoon, I really think that no matter what happens, even if Big Pharma cornered the mm market and the laws that make it all illegal still continued on, that people would continue to grow their own pot.

I think there would still be a whole segment of people that would only desire homegrown. Most growers I've known would never even think about going back to buying commercial pot, they want to know exactly what "grew" and went in to their finished product.

Like the saying goes "When fun is outlawed,only outlaws will have fun".

Great thread Airspoon, you have been really impressing me with your threads recently so thanks the contribution is much appreciated by me.
This topic is one very close to me at the moment and one that I am researching intensly.
I have friends in Switzerland who are currently setting up test environments in regards to diabeties and blood pressure control with the use of the plant in different forms.

LurkerMan has made some great threads too regarding the many uses and the reasons why it is prohibited. I cant really add much more to this and LurkerMan\s threads as most of the info is linked.

I recommend checking out the Rick Simpson thread as he is doing what seems to be some great work with what he calls hemp oil, claiming to cure cancer and most other ailments.

Thanks again, I dont S&F much but its well deserved here.

Originally posted by zaiger
You can distill without a licence and you can also sell legaly.

No you can not.

Tough out of luck - see the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, their FAQ page, and some of the latest ammended laws. You will find ....

Spirits You cannot produce spirits for beverage purposes without paying taxes and without prior approval of paperwork to operate a distilled spirits plant. [See 26 U.S.C. 5601 & 5602 for some of the criminal penalties.] There are numerous requirements that must be met that make it impractical to produce spirits for personal or beverage use. Some of these requirements are paying special tax, filing an extensive application, filing a bond, providing adequate equipment to measure spirits, providing suitable tanks and pipelines, providing a separate building (other than a dwelling) and maintaining detailed records, and filing reports. All of these requirements are listed in 27 CFR Part 19.

Ray emailed the BATF for the reference statutes concerning home distillation. Here is their response:

Ray, you have not been able to locate anything on home production because there is no provision for it. Moonshining is still illegal!! Unlike wine or beer, the laws and regulations governing distilled spirits contain no provision that would allow someone to produce spirits in their home for personal use. Under 26 U.S.C. Section 5171 operations as a distiller, warehouseman or processor may be conducted only on the bonded premises of a qualified distilled spirits plant. To qualify such a plant, a registration, application for permit and bond must be filed in addition to other supporting organizational documents. 26 U.S.C. 5178 places restrictions on where a plant can be located. Hope this answers your question.

wiki.homedistiller.org...

Please read the entire link about how it s still illegal to own a still for alcohol production.

If you want to sell you have to get a permit and pay tax. Paying tax does not mean that you do not get a proffit.

You can only get a permit for being a maker and distributer. Not a home distiller.

So, your argument is bunk as moonshining for personal use is still illegal.

[edit on 7-7-2010 by Nutter]

reply to post by zaiger


I thought I'd mention that the plant/alcohol analogy never really took root in my thinking.

Alcohol turns some people into different incarnations of what that person is, hidden beneath the wrapper of 'normal'. We have all seen the jekyll emerge from many drinkers. Many times you can tell, even if you've never seen that person drink, that there's a different person there, waiting to come out. The helpless feeling of being in the passenger seat while the driver attempts to take one of the worst acute angle, unregulated intersection, left turns imaginable, during heavy traffic...and there's no talking sense to him if he/she is one of those type persons. I don't see this phenomenon with the subject at hand.

There are many drinkers who don't fit this pattern of unapproachable behavior, of course, but give the normal ones more to imbibe and they will probably reach that tipping point...sooner or later..again...this is impossible with standard ritual use of the plant. Only imbecile teenagers sit there and try to overload on weed, and it's a symptom of their youth and inexperience. A little goes a long way in the right mind framework. I like liquor, btw, but I believe there's not a lot of similarity between the two objects. Alcohol, too, has truth in it...but it is still a powerful solvent which causes some to become unglued, and it builds tolerances which can ravage the body as the mind tries to re-create that high. I like to keep the topics as far apart as possible, because I believe the plant is better than a 'healer'. I believe it is a 'preventative', which makes this theme more of a conspiracy than , say, an 'intoxicant shootout.'

Plants aren't that way, in my experience. There's no 'limit', no need to catch up with the others. A person using herb does not get in to a car and drive like a Northwestern grad on BMW day, spinning out on Sheridan Road at every chance. It would be more likely that a herbalist would wonder if the tires are all evenly inflated and gravitate toward listening to all the car's systems before considering anything reckless, if at all. I am just sick of the constant comparison to booze~ a powerful substance which seems to bring out the worst in people when taken in excess. The worst part is that you have to look at this facet of a person when this does happen....

People who are hateful to the point of siding with 'laws' that seem to have come from the dark ages are probably afraid to see themselves. Nothing more frightening than to see yourselves, when what is there is not something you want to see. Truth. It's not for everyone...

BTW-I lost the thread that came up a few days ago which had dozens of sources proving the health benefits from a regular herbal intake. Anyone help? ats search engine is fairly useless. THX


[edit on 7-7-2010 by davidmann]

reply to post by Nutter


Right, the laws on selling liquor and extremely stringent and when you make your alcohol to sell, you have to jump through so many hoops with so many alphabet agencies that it isn't worth it for most. It's a heavy investment.

I've always wanted to retire and open a micro-brewery/ hop farm, to where I grow my own organic ingredients for the beer. I may not want to deal with all of the hoopla and red-tape though so I guess we'll see.

--airspoon

[edit on 7-7-2010 by airspoon]

Originally posted by davidmann
BTW-I lost the thread that came up a few days ago which had dozens of sources proving the health benefits from a regular herbal intake. Anyone help? ats search engine is fairly useless. THX

Here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Spacedman13
You can´t overdoze of marijuana, you would have to ingest , im not 100% on this but from what i recall it was 2600pounds within 10minutes.

Almost, but not quite....

The LD50 (the Lethal Dose required to kill 50% of test subjects) is estimated to be 1500 pounds (680 kilograms) in about 14 minutes.

en.wikipedia.org...

Toxicity

There has never been a documented human fatality from overdosing on tetrahydrocannabinol or cannabis. Information about THC's toxicity is derived from animal studies. The toxicity depends on the route of administration and the laboratory animal. Absorption is limited by serum lipids, which can become saturated with THC, mitigating toxicity. According to the Merck Index, 12th edition, THC has a LD50 (dose killing half of the research subjects) value of 1270 mg/kg (male rats) and 730 mg/kg (female rats) administered orally dissolved in sesame oil. The LD50 value for rats by inhalation of THC is 42 mg/kg of body weight. One estimate of THC's LD50 for humans indicates that about 1500 pounds (680 kilograms) of cannabis would have to be smoked within 14 minutes. This estimate is supported by studies which indicate that the effective dose of THC is at least 1000 times lower than the estimated lethal dose (a "safety ratio" of 1000:1). This is much higher than alcohol (safety ratio of 10:1), coc aine (15:1), or heroin (6:1).

Now I'm sure even the most hard-line anti-drugs supporter would have to agree that reaching a toxic level of cannabis in one's system would be not only an impossible task to achieve, but a rather expensive one to even attempt.

reply to post by Nutter

No you can not.

Yeah you can nowhere in your quoted text does it say otherwise.

Homebrewing is only allowed if you don't produce much and don't sell it. Or you get taxed for your production and sells.

So no. Not everyone can produce alcohol and make money. The only ones who can legally make money from alcohol are the corporations who can afford the tax. Something that I hope doesn't happen with cannabis.

Once again you are making up my side of the argument to suit yours. Nowhere did i mention anything about brewing strictly at home. Microbreweries are everywhere, and like any business there are financial obligations you must meet to open and keep open your doors. And yes anyone can do it who really wants to.

So, your argument is bunk as moonshining for personal use is still illegal.

Now look i have noticed that you just got into the habbit of attacking anything i say because I said it, if you are going to do it at least do it right. Nowhere have i mentioned anything about producing moonshine, or selling out of your house.

So please let me know if there is anything else you want to make up and throw in for the sake of arguing with me. If you really want you can throw in something about me kicking puppies if it would make you feel better.
reply to post by davidmann

Alcohol turns people into different incarnations of what that person is, hidden beneath the wrapper of 'normal'. We have all seen the jekyll emerge from many drinkers.Many times you can tell, even if you've never seen that person drink, that there's a different person there, waiting to come out.

That is just a red herring, I could say the "we all have seen that pot makes people dumb and lazy". The fact is there are some people who just should not drink,smoke pot or play world of warcraft because it turns them into different people.

reply to post by indigothefish

have experience making my own mead, and it's very time consuming, even though mead generally could take a month quickest for good honey wine, it's more of an effort and financial commitment for the tools, and proper cleaning than what you get out of it

So it was hard for you to do, what is your point?

and as someone else said, it really becomes a big petri dish for germs and bacteria

Duh... Alcohol is made from fermentation...

i'm a gardener and i can tell you that gardening vegetables and tobacco is alot of work, there are some people who don't spend too much effort into it, and the results are medium size harvests, but in the end it's alot of work and sometimes more expensive to grow your own food or tobacco ( no to mention drying tobacco is an endeavor of itself )

I know Air curing is so complicated, you have to hang it upside down and wait for it to dry. How can anyone figgure that out?

marijuana, on the other hand, grows like a weed i have heard people claim that it actually IS a weed, but i have never heard from a scientific community that it indeed is somehow genetically related or in the 'weed' family or genus of plants, and i cannot specify wether or not i have ever grown it legally with a medical marijuana 'growers' license, but it does indeed grow very large very fast

Once again there is no genus or family for "weed", weed just describes a plant that you do not want there. Like a rose bush growing in your pumpkin patch, that could be a weed.

, it grows big and plentiful wether you give it attention or not, therefor besides having to wait 50-100 days ( depending on the specific strain ) for it to produce the buds that contain THC, it is as convenient as going to store to buy marijuana ( if it were legal )

So a month to make mead is too long to wait but 50-100 days for weed is not???

[edit on 7-7-2010 by zaiger]

[edit on 7-7-2010 by zaiger]

Originally posted by zaiger
Yeah you can nowhere in your quoted text does it say otherwise.

You can not distill alcohol to make spirits in the home nor in the back yard as opposed to cannabis. That's the point.

Once again you are making up my side of the argument to suit yours. Nowhere did i mention anything about brewing strictly at home.

This is the beginning of our conversation.

Originally posted by zaiger
reply to post by airspoon

 

have always though that a big reason for the prohibition of marijuana, is the fact that the pharmaceutical industry can't really profit from it, seeing how anyone can grow it or buy it from someone else who could grow it.

Well anyone can make alcohol and that is legal and people make a proffit, same with tobacco.

To me, it sounded like you are saying that people can brew/still at home and this has not hindered the alcohol industry. Am I correct?

If so, I have pointed out that, no, an individual can not brew much and/or still at home. Thus negating your original argument that home production does not harm the alcohol industry.

Unlike home production of cannabis would.

Microbreweries are everywhere, and like any business there are financial obligations you must meet to open and keep open your doors. And yes anyone can do it who really wants to.

How many microdistilleries are there? You do know that there is much money to be made in the spirits correct?

Also, the microbreweries HAVE hurt the beer makers. Rolling Rock just had to sell to Busch (I think....or Coors).

Now look i have noticed that you just got into the habbit of attacking anything i say because I said it, if you are going to do it at least do it right. Nowhere have i mentioned anything about producing moonshine, or selling out of your house.

The difference would be that cannabis can easily be done at home.

The whole point is that alcohol is expensive to start a business (hindering a lot of people from doing it). Thus ensuring that a minority get the profits.

Cannabis can be grown by the poorest of the poor in a wide range of conditions.

I'll let the readers be the judge.

Originally posted by Nutter

Originally posted by davidmann
BTW-I lost the thread that came up a few days ago which had dozens of sources proving the health benefits from a regular herbal intake. Anyone help? ats search engine is fairly useless. THX

Here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thank you, very much.

reply to post by airspoon


Come on now. Big Pharma is why MJ is not being legalized. If it were legal, we would not even have to get into a discussion of "medical marijuana" would we? Government and big pharma have no business, taxing, regulating, growing, distributing, or otherwise being involved with marijuana. NO ONE SHOULD MAKE MONEY ON MARIJUANA! It grows wild when it is allowed to exist. I can remember driving through Nebraska and Kansas and seeing it grow wild in roadside ditches.

Some day I will need a prescription for the air that I breathe because some greedy corporation in league with some greedy politician has decided it is their domain to make money off of it.

Already doctors are in the business of prescribing endless drugs on behalf of big pharma so they can all enjoy the masses paying for their entire lifetimes for their services. They should cure disease, but that would mean that they cannot entrap you for life paying for their pills and potions of questionable quality, merit, and safety.

reply to post by Nutter

You can not distill alcohol to make spirits in the home nor in the back yard as opposed to cannabis. That's the point

I just said you could make alcohol, i did not say that you could make it in your backyard.

To me, it sounded like you are saying that people can brew/still at home and this has not hindered the alcohol industry. Am I correct?

No what i said was

Well anyone can make alcohol and that is legal and people make a proffit, same with tobacco.

You added in the part of doing everything at home.

How many microdistilleries are there? You do know that there is much money to be made in the spirits correct?

Also, the microbreweries HAVE hurt the beer makers. Rolling Rock just had to sell to Busch (I think....or Coors).

I really do not feel like getting into why rolling rock went under.

The whole point is that alcohol is expensive to start a business (hindering a lot of people from doing it). Thus ensuring that a minority get the profits.

Starting any business is epensive, even a medical pot dispensary.

reply to post by groingrinder

NO ONE SHOULD MAKE MONEY ON MARIJUANA! It grows wild when it is allowed to exist. I can remember driving through Nebraska and Kansas and seeing it grow wild in roadside ditches.

The same could be said for every single item in the produce isle of their local grocery store.

Already doctors are in the business of prescribing endless drugs on behalf of big pharma so they can all enjoy the masses paying for their entire lifetimes for their services. They should cure disease, but that would mean that they cannot entrap you for life paying for their pills and potions of questionable quality, merit, and safety.

Yet people line up to see the doc to get their medical card before they go over and gladly pay for their medical pot

[edit on 7-7-2010 by zaiger]

Originally posted by zaiger
Starting any business is epensive, even a medical pot dispensary.

How many times do we have to say this? Growing medical cannabis for yourself isn't.

Hence the coorelation to alcohol not being allowed to be brewed in excess or distilled at home.

Yet people line up to see the doc to get their medical card before they go over and gladly pay for their medical pot

And if these same people grew at home? Would the docs and dispenseries be making money?

And yes, some MMJ states do not allow one to grow for oneself. It has already begun.