Officers claim they don't need law to stop photographer taking pictures

Officers claim they don't need law to stop photographer taking pictures

www.independent.co .uk

In the audio recording, when asked by Mr Mattsson what law police were using to detain him and ask for details, one officer replies: “We don’t have to have a law.”

The 16-year-old continues to argue his case, informing the officers that he has a right to photograph in public places and asks whether he can get back to work.

Instead he is told by a second officer that he is now “considered a threat under the Terrorism Act” and escorted away from the parade. Mr Mattsson claims he was then pushed down a set of four concrete stairs and detained until the parade passed.

(visit the link for the full news article)

This is, in my humble opinion a bizzare case, one of which I will leave to the ATSers more adept of the ins and outs concerning legalities to conclude upon.

But the concerns for me personally are the tossing around of "we don't have to have a law" (to detain someone) and more of the "Terrorism" verbage to justify their behavior.

If "they don't have to have a law" to detain someone, then what exactly is it that they are supposed to be doing in their job description? Maybe I'm confused here. lol.

www.independent.co .uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


In effect that means that we may aswell not have a police force, because if they do not need law to detain someone then surely anyone could do it.

Things like this are why I hate the UK Police

Well lets see.


You have the police.

You have a nation on the verge of a police state.

You have police acting as if they are in a police state.

Should I comment how shocking the actions of the officer were, or say no #, it's the police?

Unfortunately, this sort of things is not uncommon. While there are absolutely just and lawful police officers, there are many who are perfectly fine using their badge to do whatever the hell they please. Several friends of mine have gotten in trouble for doing absolutely nothing. It's just one of the absurd facets of our reality.

Police hate to be informed of the law and/or your rights.

When you do this they become indignant. And role of overseer.kicks in, they will bully and harass your rights away. It will then take a civil suit to get them back.

The only reason they get away with acting like that is cause 19 out of 20 times people do nothing to stop it. If everyone whose rights were violated launched civil suits those problem officers would be drummed out of the department quickly.

yes the transparacey of what is law and wtf they will do regaurdless is getting so foul that they are literally telling us we are slaves and there is nothing we can do about it. This alone makes me think the final plans are in place or it would not be so "in your face wtf u gonna do about it???".

The cops can say/do what ever they want. It's the courts where the judgement is made whether the cops were legally correct in what they did.

The cops know that most people can't afford to go through "the system" so they just get arrested, prosecuted, and deal with it. The cops laugh at us because they have the power of the state behind them and don't have to personally pay for anything that ends up in court.

It is true. Even in the US, a police officer can interfere with your activities or even detain you for 24 hours on "suspicion" of just about anything. They don't need laws, and if they chose to pick a law, there are 1000's to choose from. It surely isn't difficult to find a reason to detain somebody for a few days, especially with the terrorism aspect of everything these days.

Suppose you are watching a parade in Times Square. Police ask you to step back, you are 16 and you say something smart, next thing you know, 72 hours later in a cold cell with no shoestrings or belt for your pants, a legal aid attorney shows up and tells you that you can go home, but your camera is busted, the film is gone, and you would be smart to not ask too many questions or make waves!

Very, very plausible. Times Square has plenty of terror targets, photographing them could be deemed suspicious, especially when coupled with a bad attitude and a disrespect for authority. Sure, you could sue or fight for your rights, but they could also confiscate every photo you've ever taken, your computer, your text messages, and cell phone records, and it wouldn't be hard to connect you to some crazy cause. Maybe it is ATS, or Al Jazeera (both on my computer), maybe it is the Masons (also me), maybe it is some smarta** texts to your brother (me), and maybe it is some Google sites about how to make a bomb, or how to create your own nightvision, or what plants are edible, maybe you have a lot of survival books and weapons and ammunition at your house. You go from dumb kid to international mastermind of terror, and instead of missing your shoestrings, you are in Gitmo backed in a corner protecting your 'ass'ets!

I can see both sides of this.

Yes the police are clearly wrong here in using an anti-terror excuse to hassle this lad, but then again if the lad had any sense he'd have asked the person in charge of the cadets first.

Being ex forces myself, and a father to two daughters too, i would be interested in why someone was taking pictures of my kids if they were cadets. It could be totaly innocent, then again it may not be.

Every time i go to London with my kids i do the sites with them, and first thing i do before taking a picture of a place (espacialy the more security conscious places) is ask a copper if it's ok to do so. I know it is, but it just seems to eliminate any confusion or hassle later.

I know people here will say "Yeah but you shouldn't have to ask", but hey, it takes two seconds, it's polite and it saves me bother.

They've always been nice as pie to me, even when i'm on my own.

If it had been me there, i'd have asked permission from the cadets instructor, then let the police there know that they were ok with it and the reasons i was photographing the children.

The fact that the kid is 16 means nothing to me when it comes to photographing kids, not all paedophiles are old men.

I don't care what the laws are, if you photograph my kids without asking me or explaining why, be prepared for a few questions.

CX.




[edit on 29/6/10 by CX]

This is a fine example of what to do when you get illegally harrassed by the powers. Record and inform them that you know your rights just to make sure they know them too. I hope this kid sues them to high heavens and gets a settlement big enough to last for the rest of his life.

Or....

It may be that the photographer was doing something he shouldn't have been. Got caught. Missed his assignment. Didn't get paid. And now, is just talking trash cause he's pissed.

The verbiage of "we don't have to have a law" sadly is used by law enforcement inappropriately. The fact is that under any suspicion of terrorism, acts or associating with such, supporting, aiding and committing such acts is often confused within this statement by law enforcement personnel. In reality, they do have a law. Many states & countrys name their laws different titles so its hard to pinpoint any certain one of them. But under those laws one can be picked up, questioned, held for an indefinite period of time, kept in solitude among other things. Until those who picked them up decide to let them go or...

[edit on 6/29/2010 by mikelee]

Just confirmation that many police know they have no jurisdiction or authority and that they are nothing but a gang of thugs who rule by strong arm and they don't care. Is it any wonder police more and more attract a certain type to becoming one?

It's sad that this kind of event has to happen at all, but it does seem that people are actually winning in the end, and the more wins the people have, the more difficult it will be for the cops to act out of line.

In a prior case;

the Met admitted that its officers had “failed to respect press freedom” of ... two journalists and agreed to pay them each £3,500 plus legal costs.

If this guy was pushed down the steps as well, I hope he gets a bit more of a payout, and out of the officers personal pocket, not taxpayers funds.

A spokesperson for the Metropolitan Police said the force had no information on the incident but added that police officers should not stop amateur or professional photographers from capturing images in a public place.

This part sounds promising to me, in the past they were getting uppity about "only accredited photographers", but that's a whole other scam. We are all equal (or should be), It shouldn't matter if you have a NUJ membership or otherwise, the law is the law for all, and the public place is public, no special expectation of privacy.

I have family in the force,few mates too, Cops are criminals with badges,in fact they are much worse,they know how to commit crimes and leave no evidence,they know how to get away with it and yes they have the state on their side.

OMFG!

Sad part is this is just the tip of the iceburg. I can not imagine how many cases like this or worst go unannouced.

Originally posted by iceblue20-12
I have family in the force,few mates too, Cops are criminals with badges,in fact they are much worse,they know how to commit crimes and leave no evidence,they know how to get away with it and yes they have the state on their side.

I could not agree more, cops are getting out of control. These are grave times indeed.

Originally posted by CX
Every time i go to London with my kids i do the sites with them, and first thing i do before taking a picture of a place (espacialy the more security conscious places) is ask a copper if it's ok to do so. I know it is, but it just seems to eliminate any confusion or hassle later.
[edit on 29/6/10 by CX]

But the point to me is WHY have to ask the police if it's OK to photograph a public place or event in the first place?

Can't even imagine in the U.S. having to get a police OK to take a picture of the White House, the Grand Canyon, or even the Macy's Parade.

Sounding like the UK really has gone very far down the police state/nanny state road.

Sad.

Originally posted by iceblue20-12
I have family in the force,few mates too, Cops are criminals with badges,in fact they are much worse,they know how to commit crimes and leave no evidence,they know how to get away with it and yes they have the state on their side.

I feel really sorry for those of you that have never seen the nice side of a copper before.

Not all police officers are criminals, not all are bad.

Maybe it depends on where you live i don't know. I do know that just one bad experience can turn a mature head very anti, which is a shame.

Whether that's the fault of the police, or the fault of the person turning to hate so quickly, that's for someone else to decide.

Imagine if we all hated everyone just because of the failings of a few, the world would be a pretty messed up place....even more than it is now.

CX.

reply to post by CX



It depends on the culture within the BROTHERHOOD,those that do not wish to play by the brotherhoods rules are soon singled out and victimized.

Many join with the best of intentions,only to become part of the brotherhood.
They may not be corrupt,they may not partake in criminal activity,but they will not turn on the brotherhood,they turn a blind eye.

It is a culture been built up over many years,very hard to remove.

Never cross the brotherhood.