Thou shalt not make graven images

I would like to ask people who believe in God and Jesus, who say "Thou shalt not make graven images", how that believe that they should?

Why do you make graven images?

The whole Greek nation makes graven images.

The Catholics make graven images.

dnot forget russian orthodoxy - technically a sect of catholicism - but elevates iconography to a pinacle

reply to post by catwhoknows


I'm not really sure what you mean, but I'm taking the question like this:
"If you believe, 'Thou shall not make any graven images', then why do believers make them?"

I hope that's correct.

If it is, then here is my answer:

Some people think it's necessary to have an image of Christ.
(i.e., gold cross, picture, statue...)
That is a graven image. It IS wrong by 10 commandments standards.
But you might be digging up an entire conspiracy in itself.

I don't believe in graven images, I don't worship them, I don't have them.
I don't have a cross necklace, tattoo, or picture in my house, nor do I want one.

But that's my belief and it doesn't seem to matter to others.

How many Christians wear a cross?

www.the-ten-commandments.org...

Right there at number two on the list.

You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.


I think it's pretty common for people in most Christian religions to pick and choose what they want to obey from the bible.

reply to post by ignorant_ape


Yes, the Russians do as well, thank you, ig ape.

My point is, why do these so-called belevers in God do what He says not to do?

I think makig graven images is okay but worshipping them is against Gods law.

Originally posted by ovenden
I think makig graven images is okay but worshipping them is against Gods law.

Read the 10 commandments, making graven images is against God's law.

I think I'm more or less a "Christian", I live in a "Christian Country", believe that the human sacrifice of Jesus' replaced all blood sacrifices, and that I can call on his name when dealing with my God to receive forgiveness from Him.

I don't go to a church on Sabbath (which I respect from Friday sunset, to Saturday sunset - I also respect Sunday as a day of rebirth, but it is not God's holyday, Sunday is a day of works and He is busy, kinda like spring).
One of the reason's I don't go to church, is that churches fill themselves with graven images.
Even less glamorous churches will have crosses inscribed on Bibles, Hymnals and furniture.

That is not to say two crossed lines is graven, but we give it that significance in our perceptions. It is a simplification of an aspect of God, and anything which diminishes the Name of God (even writing just now), is just blasphemous.

Jesus came to say, among other things, that the whole world was a church and should be treated as such, but a while back, David told his son Solomon to build a temple; the reason David couldn't was that he had killed too many people, and God wouldn't let him.
If God won't let David (a presumably holy-ish person) build Him a temple, who are we to think we can build Him a house?
Churches and Crucifixes are not holy things, things* cannot be holy only God is holy. imho

*The flesh of Jesus is a thing too.

Peace.

An important point, but the cross itself is not God.
So it is not an idol or an image of any god.
Just a vivid reminder of the immense pain and suffering Jesus paid for our sins, and a SYMBOL of our faith.

Really the cross is just a point of focus, like a national flag.
People say they die for the flag, but do they really ?
Or is your country far more important than just a rag on a stick ?

I do not wear a cross, or have one in the house, maybe I should, I really do not know.

If God was really cheesed off about it, I am sure He would make that felt in some way.
All you really need to do is be truly sincere in your faith within yourself, and you do not need candles, lumps of wood or anything else to do that.

Originally posted by taccj9903

Originally posted by ovenden
I think makig graven images is okay but worshipping them is against Gods law.

Read the 10 commandments, making graven images is against God's law.

It seems ovenden is right here according to the scripture quoted by taccj, remember to read the whole sentence which says, "you shall not bow down to them nor serve them."

Then let us use our minds for a moment and ask "why?" Here is the answer:

"For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God..."

Mean you to say that God does not want us to make any pictures because only He makes pictures? Does this makes sense? Or is he saying not to worship them because He wants to be the One being worshipped?

So, it says in the Bible "Make no graven image of me"

That means no statue, no anything.

So why do Catholics, and Greek people, have all these statues etc?

Originally posted by Silver Shadow
I do not wear a cross, or have one in the house, maybe I should, I really do not know.

If everyone were Christian (or at least were comfortable enough to ask the people they meet daily about God) there would be no need for me to wear a cross. Many interesting conversations have been spurred by merely wearing it. The only time I see my cross is in the mirror, which I assure you doesn't happen for the sake of admiring myself or the articles I wear.

[edit on 15-6-2010 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God


That just opens a whole other can of worms.....

1 John 4:8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love

1 Corinthians 13:4-7 Love is patient and kind;

Love is not jealous or boastful;

it is not arrogant or rude.

Love does not insist on its own way;

it is not irritable or resentful;

it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right.

Love bears all things, believes all things,

hopes all things, endures all things.


Depending on what version you read this would be a contradiction.

reply to post by taccj9903


Hi tac

It just proves that we can love each other if we can just get over all that other stuff.

Which we can't, so we can't. Easy.

So, what we have learned is that we cannot get over it, THE END.

Religious statues and art are beautiful, and so is some architecture.
They are magnificent decoration, and nothing more than that.
But they have no spiritual value in themselves.

The paintings on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel illustrate the stories in the Bible, and are a true wonder.

But none of it is meant to be worshiped directly as BEING God.
.
You talk directly to God, not to some lump of marble or paint on a ceiling made by the hands of man..

Originally posted by taccj9903
Depending on what version you read this would be a contradiction.

God is love...not love is God. There is an important distinction. For example, I am an American, not Americans are me. God has many characteristics. Does He get angry? Yes (though not easily). Is God just? Yes, this is why He must punish sin even though He is love. If He were ONLY love, there could be no Hell. You've made a good point, God is complex, foreign to us in a lot of ways because:

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD." - Isaiah 55:8

The problem here isn't who God is, it's whether people want to trust that His judgement is correcst. That's hard to do because many of us either think we have superior intellect/judgement/compassion or simply do not want to relinquish control.

reply to post by saint4God


I would really like to discuss this further but I think we are straying off topic of the OP. I appreciate your input though.

Originally posted by catwhoknows
I would like to ask people who believe in God and Jesus, who say "Thou shalt not make graven images", how that believe that they should?

Why do you make graven images?

The whole Greek nation makes graven images.

The Catholics make graven images.

A graven image is anything people worship made by a person's hand

The Catholics make graven images of "saint's", Mary and Jesus. But since

when are Catholics Christians?

They worship Mary now Jesus. They should be called Maryians.

The Catholic "faith" in all rituals and now faith in God.

They are misled and not truly saved.

Unless a man is born again, he canot see the kingdom of God-John(3:3) How is one born again?

Question: "What does it mean to be a born again Christian?"

Answer: What does it mean to be a born again Christian? The classic passage from the Bible that answers this question is John 3:1-21. The Lord Jesus Christ is talking to Nicodemus, a prominent Pharisee and member of the Sanhedrin (a ruler of the Jews). Nicodemus had come to Jesus at night. Nicodemus had questions to ask Jesus.

As Jesus talked with Nicodemus, He said, “’I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.’ ‘How can a man be born when he is old?’ Nicodemus asked. ‘Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb to be born!’ Jesus answered, ‘I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again’” (John 3:3-7).

The phrase "born again" literally means "born from above." Nicodemus had a real need. He needed a change of his heart—a spiritual transformation. New birth, being born again, is an act of God whereby eternal life is imparted to the person who believes (2 Corinthians 5:17; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 John 2:29; 3:9; 4:7; 5:1-4, 18). John 1:12,13 indicates that "born again" also carries the idea "to become children of God" through trust in the name of Jesus Christ.

The question logically comes, "Why does a person need to be born again?" The Apostle Paul in Ephesians 2:1 says, "And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins..." (NKJV). To the Romans in Romans 3:23, the Apostle wrote, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." So, a person needs to be born again in order to have their sins forgiven and have a relationship with God.

How does that come to be? Ephesians 2:8-9 states, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." When one is "saved," he/she has been born again, spiritually renewed, and is now a child of God by right of new birth. Trusting in Jesus Christ, the One who paid the penalty of sin when He died on the cross, is what it means to be "born again" spiritually. "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation: the old has gone, the new has come!" (2 Corinthians 5:17).

If you have never trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ as your Savior, will you consider the prompting of the Holy Spirit as He speaks to your heart? You need to be born again. Will you pray the prayer of repentance and become a new creation in Christ today? "Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God" (John 1:12-13).

If you want to accept Jesus Christ as your Savior and be born again, here is a sample prayer. Remember, saying this prayer or any other prayer will not save you. It is only trusting in Christ that can save you from sin. This prayer is simply a way to express to God your faith in Him and thank Him for providing for your salvation. "God, I know that I have sinned against you and am deserving of punishment. But Jesus Christ took the punishment that I deserve so that through faith in Him I could be forgiven. I place my trust in You for salvation. Thank You for Your wonderful grace and forgiveness—the gift of eternal life! Amen!"

Have you made a decision for Christ because of what you have read here? If so, please click on the "I have accepted Christ today" button below.

I hope I'm wrong about this, but I have a feeling one day we might find out the whole graven images mitzvah applies to photographs, magazines, films, television, games and even the world wide web.

I hope I'm wrong about it, but its one of those gut feelings that won't go away.

I guess some of the Amish, Bedouins, and Berbers will be good. As for the rest of us, hmm.

Originally posted by taccj9903
reply to post by saint4God

 

That just opens a whole other can of worms.....

1 John 4:8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love

1 Corinthians 13:4-7 Love is patient and kind;

Love is not jealous or boastful;

it is not arrogant or rude.

Love does not insist on its own way;

it is not irritable or resentful;

it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right.

Love bears all things, believes all things,

hopes all things, endures all things.


Depending on what version you read this would be a contradiction.

maybe theres a reason the "i am a jealous God" line, and the scriptures you posted, are on opposite ends of the book.

im just saying. go in chronological order and it makes more sense.

matter of fact if you go in chronological order, God will change his mind on many occasions. come to think of it, thats kind of the whole theme to the second half of the book.. happy reading!


::edit:: also, the context of the first passage is God speaking to man.

the second passage is man speaking to man. personally i find that significant.

[edit on 15-6-2010 by LurkerMan]