Hawaii Senior Elections clerk: Obama birth not here! (now gov't officails saying it!)

Originally posted by GrampsLEn
When one comes off as a petulant know-it-all self-righteous ass then people tune you out (not directed at you). A lot of people on these sites never read a person's post before they spout off insufferable ignoble comments that are meant to derail the thread and demean a person's character. That is inexcusable and has nothing to do with denying ignorance but has everything to do with being ignorant.

For the record, I do not disagree with you one bit. There are posters I do not care to read from anymore simply because of how they present themselves...

HOWEVER...

In this particular case. What I see is you cheering on the OP for repeating variations of the same tired old proven lies and evidenceless fanciful rumors because you believe that somehow repetition of said lies is the only way to eventually get the truth out. I am sorry but I can only call that idea - not smart. Telling the same lies over and over and over and over again is not only a way to get to the truth, it is a great way to cloud, hide, and forget any truth. It is simply repetition of false nonsense. You cheered that on and even credit it with being a method for finding reality. Sorry but not only do I not agree but I feel it is that line of thinking that leads to a new one of these threads every other day. I feel these threads are sad and reflect poorly on the critical thinking skills of many ATS members. They seem to me, stupid. Cheering them on and claiming that they will somehow eventually lead to the truth seems...well you get it.

If you really took that much offense, then maybe it should make you think. Am I kind of a jerk? SURE AM. Is there a reason I would so petulant about such a statement as the one you made? SURE IS. I am sick of seeing the same people tell the same lies and then watch other people join in, toss all logic out the window, buy their crap no matter how many facts prove otherwise, the thread dies from lack of facts and we start over.

It is hard to keep feeling sorry for a kid that insists on touching the stove again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again, no matter how many times Reverend "Dr." Manning tells you it will not burn next time, IT WILL.

Originally posted by yuefo
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

When the birth is recorded.

Are you trying to play games or prove the point I just made in my last post? Let me ask the EXACT QUESTION AGAIN!

Where does the health department hear it from?

When it was recorded is not an answer to that in any way shape or form. Thanks for demonstrating why my attitude here is so warm.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


The health department is the entity that records births. So naturally, they "hear" it directly from the applicant. When they record a birth, they send a form to the appropriate media outlet which publishes it. I thought it was obvious. Sorry you didn't understand.

Originally posted by yuefo
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

The health department is the entity that records births. So naturally, they "hear" it directly from the applicant. When they record a birth, they send a form to the appropriate media outlet which publishes it. I thought it was obvious. Sorry you didn't understand.

I want to make sure I am following along here. You are saying the the announcements were in the paper because they were supplied by the HD who was told by Obama's family he was born? Did they call, write a letter, bring him in there? I am just curious how this all went down.

Clerk willing to swear in court president not born in Honolulu

BORN IN THE USA?
Hawaiian elections official: I'd testify on Obama's birth
Clerk willing to swear in court president not born in Honolulu
Posted: June 13, 2010
5:10 pm Eastern

By Joe Kovacs
© 2010 WorldNetDaily

www.wnd.com...
The former Honolulu elections clerk who says President Obama was "definitely" not born in Hawaii and has no birth certificate from any hospital in the Aloha State says he's willing to testify in court to those facts.

"The things I've said, I don't mind testifying in court," Tim Adams, the senior elections clerk for the city and county of Honolulu in the 2008 campaign, told WND in an exclusive interview.

"I was working there, and this is what it was. I'm not a lawyer, just a civil servant. I know what I know. I know what I was told by the hospitals and by my supervisors."

[edit on 113030p://bSunday2010 by Stormdancer777]

reply to post by K J Gunderson


They bring the baby in with a witness, fill out forms, and the health department sends them to a hospital to get the baby checked out, etc.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Oh wonderful, maybe he can join the rest of the birther 'witnesses' in the hall of shame when his done.

"They told my supervisor, either by phone or by e-mail, neither one has a document that a doctor signed off on saying they were present at this man's birth."

If it were a home birth, then the hospitals wouldn't be able to produce "a document that a doctor signed off on saying they were present."

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Really? He is going to testify is he? Which court? What date? I am willing to testify in court that I am God. He is going to testify to second hand information. How far is that going to go? Judge Judy won't hear second hand information, why would this get any farther?

p.s. You seem to equate testifying in court with being right. How many times has Orly been before a judge on this?

[edit on 14-6-2010 by K J Gunderson]

Originally posted by yuefo
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

They bring the baby in with a witness, fill out forms, and the health department sends them to a hospital to get the baby checked out, etc.

Really, that is it? They can just walk in with a baby and any old witness they choose and it is official? Can you show me where you come by this information?

reply to post by K J Gunderson


Hawaii used to do that. They stopped in the '70s. You wouldn't need a witness if you'd lived there long enough to establish residency or were old enough, which Obama's mother hadn't and wasn't. And no, I'm not going to go on an internet search for you to support my points. I don't have any investment in this and present it as a theory to explain Obama's odd reluctance to release the Certificate. If you think it doesn't seem valid for whatever reason, I'm perfectly ok with it.

Originally posted by yuefo
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

Hawaii used to do that. They stopped in the '70s. You wouldn't need a witness if you'd lived there long enough to establish residency or were old enough, which Obama's mother hadn't and wasn't. And no, I'm not going to go on an internet search for you to support my points. I don't have any investment in this and present it as a theory to explain Obama's odd reluctance to release the Certificate. If you think it doesn't seem valid for whatever reason, I'm perfectly ok with it.

Well, there is the fact that you are wrong and basing your theory on bad information but hey. I was hoping you actually had something. It seems unfair to drag me along like this just to turn around and admit you do not know what you are talking about, just guessing at crap to justify a crazy claim. Got it.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


Hardly. My ex-girlfriend years ago worked in the department of health in California. One day she told me about the cute baby that a couple brought in. I asked why they were there, and then we had a discussion about what happens with a home birth. A parent either goes to the health department and gets sent to the hospital, or goes to the hospital and gets sent to the health department. Although states may differ, it's logical that the same types of connections between the health department and a hospital would exist anywhere. You're really disagreeable and angry. I'm done with you.

Originally posted by yuefo
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

Hardly. My ex-girlfriend years ago worked in the department of health in California.

Awesome, another story about Hawaii 40 years ago based on something you heard about California...when?

One day she told me about the cute baby that a couple brought in. I asked why they were there, and then we had a discussion about what happens with a home birth. A parent either goes to the health department and gets sent to the hospital, or goes to the hospital and gets sent to the health department.

Yeah um, you are missing a few steps and since you are simply recounting a second hand anecdote, that might be why. Maybe your girlfriend forgot to tell you about proving who they were and where it was born. Maybe you forgot what she told you. Maybe she did not know. Your story is cute but lacking in anything that makes me want to believe you know what you are saying.

Although states may differ, it's logical that the same types of connections between the health department and a hospital would exist anywhere. You're really disagreeable and angry. I'm done with you.

Not the least bit angry. I want some facts from you. This is a lie thread, based on lies and filled with lies. If you want to add something to back up those lies, I am going to ask you to prove it. Otherwise consider your words more empty birther rhetoric that we promise to put in the museum when Obama finish his first full term.

I was honestly hoping you were going to show me where it states that all you have to do to prove citizenship in the US is bring a baby to the hospital.

reply to post by yuefo


By your account the vast majority of presidents that served this nation are just as likely to have cheated the health department as the president has as more presidents have only gone so far as to present their certifications of live birth. Only afew presidents can account for having shown their long form birth certificates in public, one would namely be Reagan who only presented his birth certificate following his time in office. So if you insist on the theory of the presidents parents lying to the Hawaiian government merely because he didnt show you a long form birth certificate, you would be lumping the rest of the 40 presidents.

In anycase for you theory to be true that would mean:
-Obama's parents lied to the government to assure he gains natural born citizenship for him to become president down the lane.
-That Hawaiian authorities have been lying all along, that the entire Hawaiian government is in some conspiracy as both the Hawaiian government and department of health director confirmed the presidents birth there. That the hopsital claiming the president is in this conspiracy.
-That McCain, Clinton and the Bush administration somehow missed this fact and didnt look it up.

You theory here involves so many people and so many cover ups its not even funny, but you would rather go around insisting this theory to be likely true than to just simply deal with the fact Obama was elected in 2008.

Regarding the specific home birth law you speak of, I remember looking it up months ago to address another birther. I will get back to you on that soon.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


why?? why do the insist on making it harder for themselves?? Can you imagine if this was true? That the entire Hawaiian government, parts of the US government, the Hawaiian health department and the parents were ALL in this cover up for the last what? 47 years? They would rather go for this theory than just simply admitting the president won the election fair and square? Don't let me start with the theory as to how 7 month pregnant teen Dunham managed to catch a 7 day $20,000 flight to Kenya in the 60's.

Unbelievable.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

why??

why do the insist on making it harder for themselves??

Can you imagine if this was true? That the entire Hawaiian government, parts of the US government, the Hawaiian health department and the parents were ALL in this cover up for the last what? 47 years?

They would rather go for this theory than just simply admitting the president won the election fair and square? Don't let me start with the theory as to how 7 month pregnant teen Dunham managed to catch a 7 day $20,000 flight to Kenya in the 60's.

Unbelievable.

That sums up right there exactly why I find these threads so fascinating. The huge leaps of logic people have to take. When I see things like "A COLB is not a real birth certificate, this is -" and they keep posting a long form titled COLB. Everyone is on it and have been for 50 years. COLBS are not valid as proven by comparing to a COLB. His mom's unhealthy and unsafe trip to Kenya and return trip with new baby was funded by some secret agency. It makes too much sense if you ask me.

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by anon72

 

No Hospital CAN show a certificate. Not without a court order. Otherwise it would be a violation of HIPPA. And I guarantee the hammer would FALL for the hospital that did that. Regardless of whether Obama thought it was OK to release that info.

That's why I am curious how people can claim this information, since it is protected by law.

This is actually not true. Please check on your HIPPA laws. HIPPA is for health issues and records, not vital records. In fact, most hospitals do not deal with vital records, the Vital Records department of the State does. Most states have open records laws. Hawaii just happens to be one of the few that does not.

Most hospitals do not retain records long enough to either confirm, nor deny - any birth. In any case, birth is not a HIPPA protected issue, unless and excepting perhaps the relation to the mother as it relates to her hospitalization itself. Any birth inquiry is not about how the mother delivered, ir what drugs she was given, it is about a vital record.

What is HIPPA?

www.hemocenter.org...

What is HIPAA?
“HIPAA” is the acronym for the federal legislation titled Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996.

HIPAA was designed to protect patients from disclosure of protected health information (PHI) that is oral, written, or electronic. Patients must be informed of their rights with their PHI, authorize release of information, have the right to see and amend their medical record, and be informed of what is released. HIPAA has been implemented at the Center since April 14, 2003.

To obtain copies of vital records:

www.cdc.gov...

There is a State listing there where you can go to visit state links on Vital Records.

reply to post by Libertygal


No hospital can release private records about birth, giving birth, or pregnancies. That would be a violation of HIPPA. Birth records fall under that category.

That better?

Sorry if I am returning and responding the next day. It was late here in EST and I was exhausted and maybe a bit short. I apologize.

Originally posted by K J Gunderson
For the record, I do not disagree with you one bit. There are posters I do not care to read from anymore simply because of how they present themselves...

My reaction was more from the fact that you took one little snippet from my response and seemed to misconstrue my original intent. You did not take your usual care and analyze all that I said. Although I have disagreed with you usually I have read your other rebuttals carefully because you are so deliberate and thoughtful and sometimes funny with your response.

HOWEVER...

In this particular case. What I see is you cheering on the OP for repeating variations of the same tired old proven lies and evidenceless fanciful rumors because you believe that somehow repetition of said lies is the only way to eventually get the truth out. I am sorry but I can only call that idea - not smart. Telling the same lies over and over and over and over again is not only a way to get to the truth, it is a great way to cloud, hide, and forget any truth. It is simply repetition of false nonsense. You cheered that on and even credit it with being a method for finding reality. Sorry but not only do I not agree but I feel it is that line of thinking that leads to a new one of these threads every other day. I feel these threads are sad and reflect poorly on the critical thinking skills of many ATS members. They seem to me, stupid. Cheering them on and claiming that they will somehow eventually lead to the truth seems...well you get it.

I am not cheering him on. But I have been and remain concerned with how often the TPTB seem to cloak information to the people regarding our pols. I distrust secrecy and clandestine activities and immediately begin to suspect the worst when I see coversion. I instinctively view guvmint secrecy as disrespect for the electorate and abuse of power.

If you really took that much offense, then maybe it should make you think. Am I kind of a jerk? SURE AM. Is there a reason I would so petulant about such a statement as the one you made? SURE IS. I am sick of seeing the same people tell the same lies and then watch other people join in, toss all logic out the window, buy their crap no matter how many facts prove otherwise, the thread dies from lack of facts and we start over.

Fair enough. But ask yourself this question. Is there anything that could be posted at any time that would change your mind on this issue? If not, then are you not being narrow-minded on this issue because you like and/or admire Obama?

I have read so many outrageous posts on Bush and Reagan here at ATS that is just as off-the-wall as anything ever said about O. However, I do read many of them (not all---I have another life) because I want to know if there is something there. Something that makes me step out of my paradigm-restricted views. Many of the 9/11 conspiracies have recently given me pause to think and ponder. Am I convinced? No. But I do not want to close my mind to anything. I love the information and thoughtful discourse even if I do not like the issue. You usually provide that and since that original post you have done this.

It is hard to keep feeling sorry for a kid that insists on touching the stove again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again, no matter how many times Reverend "Dr." Manning tells you it will not burn next time, IT WILL.

I am sure that most people in Benjamin Franklin's time would have thought him a bit daffy for attaching a metal key to a string and flying it in an electrical storm. My point, after I disgreed with his conclusions, was that we should not close our minds to the prospect of deceit anywhere it might be found. That is how TPTB aim to control our thoughts.