In 1992,our goverment and Taiwan's goverment made a confrence.We all made sure that there was one China in the world and both PRC and ROC existed in China.It was the sign that mainland and Taiwan would finish the state of hostility.
But after 2 years,Taiwan's new president denied everything.
We didn't want to destroy the relationship between China and Taiwan. So we accept their rules.
Let's take a look what kinds of rules they made:

Taiwan can export products to China, but Taiwan refuse to import products from China. (They can earn our money, but we can't earn theirs. FOR "protecting" their OWN business)

The Taiwaner can travel to China freely, but we can't go to Taiwan. (Because everyone from China maybe a spy.)

These rules are very very unfair. But we accept them and make all efforts to fulfill Taiwan.

When we tell the guys from Taiwan that Taiwan only need accept "one China”, Taiwan can have his own arms, his own industry and economy system, his own government and regime, the people live in Taiwan can choose their own president. BUT they tell us their government never tells them these. Their government tells them, reunited by China, they will be slaves, women will be outraged, and their property will be confiscated. So they are very afraid. (Dame it!)

Taiwan's governors just make use of Taiwaner's dread to fulfill their own profits.
The latest arms business between Taiwan and USA.Per patriot missile cost US$ 30 million ,the price is Just equal to F-16.Per 70's submarine cost US$ 1 billion; and they will get them after TEN years. Am I joking? No! It is true. It is extortion and cheating.
This business totally cost US$ 18 billion. the money from the people in Taiwan, who work hard day and night and give their government money ,hoping their child a good education and health insurance, but finally go into the Taiwan's governor and America's munitioner's pocket!!!

Now,we become more and more angry.The goverment of Taiwan is a bad guy.


[edit on 14-6-2004 by gastric cancer]

I think its practical. I mean if you owned a car company would you buy the cars from somebody else or make then yourself for half priced. And not to worry everybody once the F-22s and Joint Strike Fighters start coming out the J10 will be obsolete.

yeah well i think that the j-10 can beat a jsf in combat because the jsf is shizen at A2A combat
also give me the good old yf-23 over the raptor anyday

Gastric, you might think that it is simple for Taiwan to simply say "ok we give, there is only one China". But you must be able to open your eyes and see that these are not public relations, today, it is hard to say who really has the power of a nation, the people or its government.

People might say that, "O yeah the government has to do what we say, we are the people, we outnumber them, we can say what goes and what doesn't" but if you look at the truth, it is not the people who run the government, it is the government that runs the people.

The Chinese government has been doing all they can to prevent revolt, but the Taiwainian Government is probably hoping for a revolt, so that they would be freed to do as they please...

Shattered OUT...

The Chinese government has been doing all they can to prevent revolt, but the Taiwainian Government is probably hoping for a revolt, so that they would be freed to do as they please...

What you talk about is true, but it is not quite right.

Chinese GDP is growing. But level of GDP per person is still low. It just over 1000 US$.Some advanced area will be higher. Chinese population is too large.
I don't think democracy can make Chinese economy better today. I don't mean we give up democracy, but it is not the real time for us to do it.Why? Look back to the history of democracy, every successful democratic countries (I mean successful countries, not those poor or in chaos), there GDP per person is at least 5000-10000US$.People all have good education and the exchange of party will not effect economy system.
The people in China never forget 1989.6.4. You can easily get information about it (because western countries very love it to criticise Chinese despotism), so I don't want to say more about it. The way government used is really wildless, but more and more people nowadays are waking up to that action we had done was WRONG!
Although Russia’s people can choose their president, but Russia has been crashed. In 80's, we very admired Russia because its people had a good life and it was an advanced country. But now, even poor in our country, can be middle class in Russia. Except China, every pre-socialism country became poorer than before and was controlled by western countries. Only China is becoming a great power and making its people's life better.
We want the real democracy, I mean the real democracy. Not voting for choose president or anything else but the way we get to make our country stronger and people richer.

At the end of my post, let’s talk about Taiwan’s vote. Of cause they can vote. But it is meaningless. Their president let their people vote for buying missile or not. The result is not, but the government still buys them. Their candidate of president promised lot things to his constituency, but after he became president, he uses all kinds of excuse to deny them.

Populist and democrat look familiar, but so different.


[edit on 14-6-2004 by gastric cancer]

///

[edit on 14-6-2004 by gastric cancer]

As to the power of a nation.

Do every choice the poeple made is right?I don't think so.

A research shows over 80% of Chinese want to invade Taiwan NOW.Some madman want our government use nuclear missile to eliminate Taiwan."If USA help Taiwan,what will we do?"The most answer is using nuclear weapons!!!If we can vote,what's the result?

With the growing power of China,nationalism is growing at the same time.I am really worry about it.Without a sane and gentle government,China is very dangous.

[edit on 14-6-2004 by gastric cancer]

Maybe 80% of the people in your country do not understand what they are saying. Taiwan is our ally and a attack on them may be considered an attack on the US. If a nuclear weapon is used and the US decides to use a nuclear weapon in response the end result would be the death of almost all life on our planet. Is having 61 billion dead people worth a little island? Maybe the people who would like to use these weapons do not understand that saying China should use a nuclear weapon on Taiwan may be no different than saying they want to die and want to irradiate the whole planet with radiation.

We all know the result.

You don't realize the eastern philosophy,different from western.Just like japanese wujidou.

In China,there is a proverb from ancient time:"we want to be cracked gem,not be intact rock."It means we choose success,if we can't get success,we choose death.Failure is a shame.


[edit on 15-6-2004 by gastric cancer]

Originally posted by gastric cancer
In China,there is a proverb from ancient time:"we want to be cracked gem,not be intact rock."It means we choose success,if we can't get success,we choose death.Failure is a shame.

Well, if that is a proverb that people in China apply to life than they should kill them selves and not take innocent people to death with them.

I do not agree with that though. Everyone will fail at some point in time, failure is as much a fact in life as success is. Failure makes success worth the journey, when you fail you learn to appreciate success and you learn one path that will not bring you success. There is no shame in that.

So it is the difference between eastern and western philosophy and culture.

I am really against the war.Our government also try for the peace between mainland and Taiwan.But if Taiwan is independent from China,we will have no choice.

[edit on 15-6-2004 by gastric cancer]

Originally posted by gastric cancer
So it is the difference between eastern and western philosophy and culture.

I am really against the war.Our government also try for the peace between mainland and Taiwan.But if Taiwan is independent from China,we will have no choice.

[edit on 15-6-2004 by gastric cancer]

Once you say you have no choice you have limited yourself. I can personally think of choices that could benefit the people of China and the people of Taiwan where you both would win. Such as sell the Island to the Taiwan government for 200 billion dollars, they can make payments over the next 30 years. Until it is paid off they must remain part of China. I think the philosophy of failure means death is very old and should be looked at as the old ways and should not apply to today. When that proverb was first spoken they did not consider a nuclear war.

I have enjoyed our conversation, I need to get some sleep because it is very late here, but I will be back tomorrow.

[edit on 15-6-2004 by J0HNSmith]

Originally posted by devilwasp
yeah well i think that the j-10 can beat a jsf in combat because the jsf is shizen at A2A combat
also give me the good old yf-23 over the raptor anyday

The J-10 can beat the jsf are u on crack the j-10 will get its azz handed to it bu the F-16 F-15 F-18 F-18/s F-22 F-35 F-14! why? because we have better training better jets and advanced technology.

ok firstly the j-10 is no where near the same class as the f22 so can u come down from ur all high and mighty peak and lets talk seriosly here.
the j-10 is comparable to what a F16 c/d now let me c the f-14 tomcat is nice i love it personally but the F16 can kikc its arse so the j-10 can beat the F14 and F15. thers no point in comparing it 2 anything else because it aint in there league oh and i thought id mention if your pilots are so good then home come we beat u at wargames and your flying in what? F-18 hornets the best aeroplane in service in the US navy. we are flying harriers how the hell can u say that your better if we beat u.

[edit on 15-6-2004 by devilwasp]

you can say the same abut every single country in the world

I am just waiting for gastric cancer's reply on my comment.

Yeah...True.... I guess propaganda is every where in the world but communist countries seem to block-and-lie constantly like China and Vietnam

Originally posted by devilwasp
ok firstly the j-10 is no where near the same class as the f22 so can u come down from ur all high and mighty peak and lets talk seriosly here.
the j-10 is comparable to what a F16 c/d now let me c the f-14 tomcat is nice i love it personally but the F16 can kikc its arse so the j-10 can beat the F14 and F15. thers no point in comparing it 2 anything else because it aint in there league oh and i thought id mention if your pilots are so good then home come we beat u at wargames and your flying in what? F-18 hornets the best aeroplane in service in the US navy. we are flying harriers how the hell can u say that your better if we beat u.

[edit on 15-6-2004 by devilwasp]

The J-10 is NOT equal to the F-16! It is a cheap, inferior copy. So firstly, lets not assume that they are equal, because they are not - they simply share the same airframe.

You say that the F-16 can beat a F-14 and F-15. The F-14 would destroy the F-16 before the F-16 was within firing range of the tomcat (ever heard of the Phoenix missle system?)

And don't get me started on the F-15! It is the most combat proven plane in the world today - over 100 A2A kills without a single loss. On a side note, did you ever hear the story of the Isreali pilot who lost a wing yet still the plane flew him home safely? He didn't even know that the wing was missing, that is till everyone at the AF base ran up to him and pointed at the missing wing!

Now, you are claiming the US is losing wargames against you guys - i'm not denying that, cause I don't know, so could you throw me a link or 2 please?

I forgive you for your little Chinese history.

Two mistakes:
1.Taiwan is not a country,It is a part of China.This is common sense!
2.There are no Paracel Islands in the world.there are Chinese South islands.Remember!!!

Before 3500 years,our people had landed Chinese South islands and named them use CHINESE(Did your country exist at that time?).They noted them in books and maps.Our acient books from that times showed it,they were all in Chinese.
Several hundred years ago,our people had already live in these islands.Our acient books from that times also showed it.
In 1933,Chinese government(PRC was established at 1949,so it is none of communist party's business) claim the dominion of south China sea,the same as "communist country".

So these islands belong to China.Simple,never changed!

I suggest you to take some Chinese history course.

Historically, you are right. But doesn't it matter to you that maybe there are Islands that don't want to be a part of China? These are happy people, who enjoy freedoms that you don't. They like these freedoms and understand that Communism sucks - it is perhaps the most failed government type in the history of the world. So why can't they keep their independance?