Originally posted by American Mad Man

Originally posted by devilwasp
ok firstly the j-10 is no where near the same class as the f22 so can u come down from ur all high and mighty peak and lets talk seriosly here.
the j-10 is comparable to what a F16 c/d now let me c the f-14 tomcat is nice i love it personally but the F16 can kikc its arse so the j-10 can beat the F14 and F15. thers no point in comparing it 2 anything else because it aint in there league oh and i thought id mention if your pilots are so good then home come we beat u at wargames and your flying in what? F-18 hornets the best aeroplane in service in the US navy. we are flying harriers how the hell can u say that your better if we beat u.

[edit on 15-6-2004 by devilwasp]

The J-10 is NOT equal to the F-16! It is a cheap, inferior copy. So firstly, lets not assume that they are equal, because they are not - they simply share the same airframe.

You say that the F-16 can beat a F-14 and F-15. The F-14 would destroy the F-16 before the F-16 was within firing range of the tomcat (ever heard of the Phoenix missle system?)

And don't get me started on the F-15! It is the most combat proven plane in the world today - over 100 A2A kills without a single loss. On a side note, did you ever hear the story of the Isreali pilot who lost a wing yet still the plane flew him home safely? He didn't even know that the wing was missing, that is till everyone at the AF base ran up to him and pointed at the missing wing!

Now, you are claiming the US is losing wargames against you guys - i'm not denying that, cause I don't know, so could you throw me a link or 2 please?

OK,OK

I know f-15 and f-16 have different use.

But don't be too arrogant.J-10 is really equal to F-16 C/D block 50/60,from engine to radar and missile.Don't go mad so far.Maybe you mistake J-10 to FC-1.



[edit on 15-6-2004 by gastric cancer]

I am tried.Now is 3:30 AM in China.

See you tomorrow,good night(or good day in your time).

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Historically, you are right. But doesn't it matter to you that maybe there are Islands that don't want to be a part of China? These are happy people, who enjoy freedoms that you don't. They like these freedoms and understand that Communism sucks - it is perhaps the most failed government type in the history of the world. So why can't they keep their independance?

If Hawaii want to be indepent from U.S,how do you feel?

i feel they should be if they want it, but here is the thing - THEY LIKE BEING AMERICAN! So the comparison is not valid.

The F-22 is an air dominance fighter. It will make every other a2a fighter in the world obsolete. It's sheer speed in air combat maneuver will easily allow it to out perform other fighters, including the U.S.'s other fleet.

Damn thing is quite expensive though...

Originally posted by gastric cancer
I forgive you for your little Chinese history.

Two mistakes:
1.Taiwan is not a country,It is a part of China.This is common sense!
2.There are no Paracel Islands in the world.there are Chinese South islands.Remember!!!

Before 3500 years,our people had landed Chinese South islands and named them use CHINESE(Did your country exist at that time?).They noted them in books and maps.Our acient books from that times showed it,they were all in Chinese.
Several hundred years ago,our people had already live in these islands.Our acient books from that times also showed it.
In 1933,Chinese government(PRC was established at 1949,so it is none of communist party's business) claim the dominion of south China sea,the same as "communist country".

So these islands belong to China.Simple,never changed!

I suggest you to take some Chinese history course.

If you categorize seafaring and records written by your people, I do not think that is a very solid arguement. If you read elementary history books of the Philliphinos and Vietnamese, you would see that they also have "South China Islands" in their ancient records also.
The Philippines people arrived at their islands 250,000 years ago by land bridge due to the fact of Ice Age. That was when sea level was much lower than it is today. They WALKED there along with Indonesians, Spratly Islands were much more exposed than today.

It is recorded in world history.

In 1624, the Dutch arrived at the island of Taiwan. They found only the aborigine population on the island: there were no signs of any administrative structure of the Chinese Imperial Government. They brought Chinese workers as migrant workers to work on rice fields and plantations.

It is recorded in the record of the Dutch.

It is only after China became Communist that Chinese started to migrate to Taiwan.

The South China Sea consists of four major groups of islands:
1.Spratly Islands
2.Macclesfield Islands
3.Paracel Islands
4.Pratas Islands

Since every country has a different name for America, i guess it is the same for this situation. Naming something in your own language does not mean you own it

Thank you for reading this. And again, waiting for your comment.

"An open-mind is a door to knowledge." Jazzmaster

[edit on 15-6-2004 by jazzmaster]

[edit on 15-6-2004 by jazzmaster]

i dont have any links mad man cause all my info on that comes from service men
though i do rem hearing about a certain incident with a frigate sinking the US flagship and running away safely
besides y cant the J-10 be equal so what if its a cheap copy its still a good aircraft

Originally posted by devilwasp
i dont have any links mad man cause all my info on that comes from service men
though i do rem hearing about a certain incident with a frigate sinking the US flagship and running away safely
besides y cant the J-10 be equal so what if its a cheap copy its still a good aircraft

It cant be equal because the only thing that the J-10 took from the F-16 was it's basic airframe. Avionics and weapons have more to do with how deadly an aircraft is than it's physical structure.

BTW - I am not saying it isn't a good aircraft - i'm sure it can fight, otherwise China would have stuck with Russian stuff. But there is a difference between being a good aircraft and being the equal of another. IMO, it can't compete with a US block F-16.

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Originally posted by devilwasp
ok firstly the j-10 is no where near the same class as the f22 so can u come down from ur all high and mighty peak and lets talk seriosly here.
the j-10 is comparable to what a F16 c/d now let me c the f-14 tomcat is nice i love it personally but the F16 can kikc its arse so the j-10 can beat the F14 and F15. thers no point in comparing it 2 anything else because it aint in there league oh and i thought id mention if your pilots are so good then home come we beat u at wargames and your flying in what? F-18 hornets the best aeroplane in service in the US navy. we are flying harriers how the hell can u say that your better if we beat u.

[edit on 15-6-2004 by devilwasp]

The J-10 is NOT equal to the F-16! It is a cheap, inferior copy. So firstly, lets not assume that they are equal, because they are not - they simply share the same airframe.

You say that the F-16 can beat a F-14 and F-15. The F-14 would destroy the F-16 before the F-16 was within firing range of the tomcat (ever heard of the Phoenix missle system?)

And don't get me started on the F-15! It is the most combat proven plane in the world today - over 100 A2A kills without a single loss. On a side note, did you ever hear the story of the Isreali pilot who lost a wing yet still the plane flew him home safely? He didn't even know that the wing was missing, that is till everyone at the AF base ran up to him and pointed at the missing wing!

Now, you are claiming the US is losing wargames against you guys - i'm not denying that, cause I don't know, so could you throw me a link or 2 please?

The j-10 can beat the F-16 and F-14 and F-15 are u on crack or something the j-10 would never win a A2A with the F-15 and F-14 never these planes are some of the best in the world. and the F-16 would beat it too mabey not always but 10-1 ratio. The J-10 can be compared with the F-4 and plz give me some facts about the war games not just word of mouth otherwise shut the F up.

[edit on 15-6-2004 by WestPoint23]

Pakistan, arguably China's closest ally, has F16s. I have a hard time believing that either the Chinese didn't ask to check them out, or that the Pakistanis would refuse them.

J-10 (Jian-10 Fighter aircraft 10) / F-10
The J-10 [the export version being designated F-10] is a multi-role single-engine and single-seat tactical fighter, with its combat radius of 1,000 km. It is designed for point defensive warfare with performance generatlly matching aircraft such as the Mirage 2000 deployed by Taiwan. Apparently, Chinese engineers are trying to develop the J-10 from a single F-16 provided by Pakistan, and with assistance from Israeli engineers associated with Israel’s US-financed Lavi fighter program, which was cancelled in 1987.

The acquisition of Su-27, after China had attempted for years to develop the J-10 aircraft with equivalent technology to perform similar functions, demonstrates a lack of confidence in domestic industrial capabilities. China’s record on reverse engineering aircraft has not been impressive, and it remains in doubt whether the J-10 will ever join China’s interceptor inventory.


AAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
The above is text from the site that I can't get to work.

HeirToBokassa,

This might raise an eyebrow. Bet your a** OUR friend Pakistan gave them one. Not 100% can't always trust what you find on the net.

Originally posted by gastric cancer

F-16 was designed in 70'.Why it is still being used today?


[edit on 16-6-2004 by gastric cancer]

yet, the new f-16 variants still outperform the j-10 copy.

Originally posted by jazzmaster

Originally posted by gastric cancer
I forgive you for your little Chinese history.

Two mistakes:
1.Taiwan is not a country,It is a part of China.This is common sense!
2.There are no Paracel Islands in the world.there are Chinese South islands.Remember!!!

Before 3500 years,our people had landed Chinese South islands and named them use CHINESE(Did your country exist at that time?).They noted them in books and maps.Our acient books from that times showed it,they were all in Chinese.
Several hundred years ago,our people had already live in these islands.Our acient books from that times also showed it.
In 1933,Chinese government(PRC was established at 1949,so it is none of communist party's business) claim the dominion of south China sea,the same as "communist country".

So these islands belong to China.Simple,never changed!

I suggest you to take some Chinese history course.

If you categorize seafaring and records written by your people, I do not think that is a very solid arguement. If you read elementary history books of the Philliphinos and Vietnamese, you would see that they also have "South China Islands" in their ancient records also.
The Philippines people arrived at their islands 250,000 years ago by land bridge due to the fact of Ice Age. That was when sea level was much lower than it is today. They WALKED there along with Indonesians, Spratly Islands were much more exposed than today.

It is recorded in world history.

In 1624, the Dutch arrived at the island of Taiwan. They found only the aborigine population on the island: there were no signs of any administrative structure of the Chinese Imperial Government. They brought Chinese workers as migrant workers to work on rice fields and plantations.

It is recorded in the record of the Dutch.

It is only after China became Communist that Chinese started to migrate to Taiwan.

The South China Sea consists of four major groups of islands:
1.Spratly Islands
2.Macclesfield Islands
3.Paracel Islands
4.Pratas Islands

Since every country has a different name for America, i guess it is the same for this situation. Naming something in your own language does not mean you own it

Thank you for reading this. And again, waiting for your comment.

"An open-mind is a door to knowledge." Jazzmaster

[edit on 15-6-2004 by jazzmaster]

[edit on 15-6-2004 by jazzmaster]

So different countries have different history.

"It is only after China became Communist that Chinese started to migrate to Taiwan. " is a lie.The poeple in Taiwan had used Chinese words and spoken Chinese hundreds years ago.Why they haven't their own language and words like Japan or Korea?Denying the relationship between Chinese mainland and Taiwan is meaningless.

I admit that the dominion of Chinese south islands still remain argument among these country.But I have no right to give these islands to others and we don't want to give to others.
If you were me,you would do the same.
Don't forget the war between UK and Argentina.

[edit on 16-6-2004 by gastric cancer]

Mmmm~~~~~

the exchange of nuclear weapon sounds good

Originally posted by gastric cancer
Mmmm~~~~~

the exchange of nuclear weapon sounds good

LOL

I am sorry, but I cannot respect the J-10. I realize that many technology has been copied, but the J-10 is a knock off of a knock off and just copied
american engines that have been around for thirty years and whose tech is incorporated into any modern jet. i would like it still if it werent for the way it was achieved. The Communist Government of China is able to achieve military funding and to develop their cities and enrich their upperclass by taking from the pesants and denying them their basic human rights. I also cannot respect a government that forces woman to abort their child, and will even stick a needle into the head of a child while it is being born to kill it. Do you people in China remember Tinamen Square?

Originally posted by roniii259
I am sorry, but I cannot respect the J-10. I realize that many technology has been copied, but the J-10 is a knock off of a knock off and just copied
american engines that have been around for thirty years and whose tech is incorporated into any modern jet. i would like it still if it werent for the way it was achieved. The Communist Government of China is able to achieve military funding and to develop their cities and enrich their upperclass by taking from the pesants and denying them their basic human rights. I also cannot respect a government that forces woman to abort their child, and will even stick a needle into the head of a child while it is being born to kill it. Do you people in China remember Tinamen Square?

]

I feel sick about your post.

I wonder why you have such a bias aganist China.

Of course we know Tinamen Square.Tanks and guns,blood and death,lots of pictures,right?But ,is the truth kept in your mind the real truth,or acturally you just know part of the truth?

Never say "a government that forces woman to abort their child, and will even stick a needle into the head of a child while it is being born to kill it. "again and again,because I have seen this issue over 10 times in English,traditional Chinese and simplified Chinese.I am a doctor,acturally,I am a surgeon.My major is in Gastric Cancer.So I konw clearly about our own public-health reality.Don't show ignorance of China again!

Welcome to China.Use your own eyes to know China.

My medical English professor,Mr. Davith,he is a pathologist(MD) from U.S.He told us the first time he went to China in 1995,he was very afraid because in his mind Chinese soldier would arrest him without any reason and shoot him because he was a American.After several years living in China,he becomes know more and more about China and Chinese.He is really a good guy with his kindness and knowledge,I respect him.

If you really want to know the truth,using your eyes,not your ears.