Our Founding Fathers were Christians, Prove me wrong. You Can't.

reply to post by Loken68

Ye I'm very proud we took it from the indians. They shouldn't have been so greedy.

Wow...that is a seed I dont wish to reap of. I know your nature from that one line more then anything else I have read from you. You should not talk of greed like that and not include the greedy ways of the men that came here and couldnt respect the ones that already had claimed some of it. Just wow...We were horrible to them. A entire culture of people almost became wiped from the Earth. TO think...they didnt have something they could of taught us. How did we have more rights then them???

I guess they should of just bowed to the awesome white man.

Originally posted by Loken68
I'm not content with watching the scum of the earth drag this great nation through the mud.

I agree. People who insist that America was "founded on christian principles" might as well be mooning the founding fathers. What an ill-informed and disgusting proclamation.

Before I reply let me first say that I love the United States of America more than anything on, above, and below the Earth...I am one of the most patriotic people you will ever meet. I have three American flags (various sizes) in my room...I have the Declaration of Independence and the United States Constitution next to my bed at all times.

While our founding fathers may have been Christian it is apparent that our Capital Washington, D.C. is full of pagan statues, architecture, altars, etc. In fact, the Captial city was first named Rome. On the top of the Capitol Building is a statue of a pagan goddes, Lady Libertus (Called Freedom). The entrance to the Capitol Building is the god Mars. On the ceiling of the dome is The Apotheosis of Washington. It depicts Washington surrounded by 13 maidens in an inner ring with many Greek and Roman gods and goddesses below him in a second ring. This was and is (rightfully so) meant to deify George Washington. And why not? He is a great man who created this great nation.

The Washington Monument is an obelisk. Obelisks are related to the Egyptian Sun god Ra. Countless buildings in Washington, D.C. are modeled after the ancient pagan Greek and Roman architectures. There are various depictions of the goddess Justice in so many different places throughout the entire country.

Now let’s get to the Declaration of Independence. Now, I will admit this amazing document does mention God but in a special, interesting way. Mind you, like I said I have a copy of this document and I will be quoting it. Here is the first paragraph: “When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station of to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.” Note the allusions to Nature (a very, very pagan concept).

Another snippet of the document: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with…” Man’s creator…THEIR creator…Not mention of Christian creator…but the creator of the man. Who the creator is, is obviously up to the man. That brings us to the Constitution:

In the beginning of the Constitution it states: “We the people…secure the Blessings of Liberty…” Liberty, once again, is a depiction of a pagan goddess. Article Six of the United States Constitution provides that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States". Prior to the inclusion of the Bill of Rights, this was the only mention of religious freedom in the Constitution. Amendment one states: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”

I am not in any way, shape, or form trying to say our Founding Fathers had this grant scheme. Even though they said they were Christians, like others have stated in this thread, they were something more...something not Christian. And that's okay right? Separation of Church and State is an awesome part of the wonderful nation we call the United States of America.

DOUBLE POST

[edit on 2-6-2010 by FBI 33]

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Maybe you need to study history more than what comes onthe history channel. The indians were never the innocent victims.

The Indian Massacre of 1622 occurred in the Colony of Virginia, in what is now United States of America, on Friday, March 22, 1622. Though he had not been in Virginia since 1609 and was thus not a firsthand eyewitness, Captain John Smith related in his History of Virginia that the Indians "came unarmed into our houses with deer, turkeys, fish, fruits, and other provisions to sell us". Suddenly the Indians grabbed any tools or weapons available to them and killed any English settlers that were in sight, including men, women and children of all ages. Chief Opechancanough led a coordinated series of surprise attacks of the Powhatan Confederacy that killed 347 people, or a fourth of the English population of Jamestown.Source

1540-Hernando de Soto’s expedition ambushed by Choctaws,[2] killing horses/pigs & 200 Spaniards, who burned down Mabila compound & killed 2,500 warriors who had hidden in houses of a fake village

1689-1,500 Mohawk warriors attacked the small settlement of Lachine, New France and killed more than 90 of the village's 375 French residents.

1704-A force composed of Abenaki, Kanienkehaka, Wyandot and Pocumtuck, led by a small contingent of French-Canadian militia, sacked the town of Deerfield, Massachusetts, killing 56 civilians and taking dozens more as captives.

1813-Following defeat at the Battle of Burnt Corn, a band of Red Sticks sacked Fort Mims, Alabama, killing 400 civilians and taking 250 scalps.

1813-River Raisin Massacre Between 30 and 60 Kentucky militia were killed after surrendering.

But other than that your hijacking the post by taking this from founding fathers to indian wars.

[edit on 2-6-2010 by Loken68]

reply to post by Loken68

Maybe you need to study history more than what comes onthe history channel. The indians were never the innocent victims.

Both sides were guilty of offenses and both sides were pretty ruthless in their hatred of the other however there is something still arrogantly disgusting about a technologically advanced people moving in and slowly destroying the culture and population of another group.

How would you like it is someone entered your home and attempted to pitch a tent in your living room? This is basically what the Europeans did when they landed in the Americas. I imagine the moment you saw that the person in the tent was armed with a weapon you'd attempt to defend your home, with lethal force if necessary.

So while neither side is truly innocent there is certainly plenty of guilt to be had for us of European descent. Especially when you take a look around and realize what we did to this continent and the natural and pristine beauty we destroyed, not to mention what was lost of the native cultures.

Natives might not have been blameless but at least what they were doing was defending their homelands and tribes, even if at times they stooped to ruthless and merciless methods.

But I guess to someone who believes the United States was founded on "Christian" principles you probably believe manifest destiny was really a divine call for us to spread across the Continent. Plus if you're a proponent of the Bible you probably don't mind genocide, since God commands the Israelites to wipe out groups of people wholesale.

A Deist is NOT a Christian. Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin were most definitely not Christians.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


Read the story of 1622. And Stay on topic.....

reply to post by Titen-Sxull

Sorry double post .....
Read the story of 1622. And Stay on topic.....

[edit on 3-6-2010 by Loken68]

Originally posted by Loken68

Maybe you need to study history more than what comes onthe history channel. The indians were never the innocent victims.

Maybe you ought to study up a bit on Andrew Jackson.

Just sayin'

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


The thread is "Our Founding Fathers were Christians, Prove me wrong. You Can't."
I do not read This nation was founded on Christian Principles.
Christian philosophy is the best form of religious belief to couple with a representative republic.
That is what happened in the 1700's.

reply to post by slugger9787


There should be no religious beliefs mixed with any govt. The officials can and are encouraged to have religious beliefs but the govt (especially the United States) should be seperate from religion. Religion does nothing but start problems.

The founding principles of a country define what it was. However it does not define, what it is, or what it will be. Frankly, the United States has long been divorced of its own principles for some time.

The military industrial complex has waged its "Pax Americana" with 65 years worth of scrub & resource wars, interfering with other sovereign countries to serve their own ends under the abhorrent guise of "For God and Country". The US government, long wed to this succubus must and will go along with all that it is told to do, hide and justify.

Internally the bill of rights aren't worth the toilet paper they are written on. While the fingers are pointed at various countries about their shortcomings and barbarity, the United States has 1 in 100 US Residents in privately owned jails making war matériel to equip the US Armed forces to wage its oil war. Helmets, Ammunition, Body Armor, Shirts, Pants, Tents, you name it. Luckily Slavery was abolished right? I somehow think Abraham Lincoln would disagree. The new Slave Owners are Prison Owners. And please, don't fool yourself into the "Paying their debt to society" garbage. Prison is for rehabilitation. Call them what they are; work camps for citizen slaves. And only bad people go to Jail right? Because the justice system is 100% effective and free from corruption and incompetence? Frankly I am surprised the numbers aren't higher.

Those who aren't in prison but are a citizen can be arrested and detained just for being near the border. Others can be arrested and detained indefinitely after being accused of being a Terrorist. A foreign national in a foreign land can be kidnapped and incarcerated indefinitely by being labeled an enemy combatant.

So here is a country, for the few, by the few to fund the few. Divorced from all moral or ethical action and wed to a vampire bride of war. Will act with force to take what it wants, when it wants, then lie to all about the true motivations and proclaim righteous preemptive action. All the while holding itself up as a pillar of righteous indignation about its neighbors behavior.

Who cares what the principles were. Pay some attention to what they are now.

Originally posted by slugger9787

The thread is "Our Founding Fathers were Christians, Prove me wrong. You Can't."
I do not read This nation was founded on Christian Principles.

I wouldn't have either except that the OP's first sentence in the thread is:

Alot of people still want to make the claim that our Nation wasn't founded on Christian Principle's. well after looking at these list I sort of doubt that.

Which "sect" (I call them cults) of Christianity was this country founded on then?

There are, after all, hundreds of different Christian "sects".

So which one was it?

BTW, I'm really glad it wasn't Fred Phelp's version of "Christianity".

God in government documents literally means the Vicar of Christ, the Pope in Rome. Proof?

I'm not sure that's Christian.

If the founding Fathers were really christian, why is there so much Santanist architecture in the basic layout at the heart of government constructions?

www.scroogle.org...

reply to post by Danbones

Those links aren't working... you need to add ?q=keyword+stuff or something...

reply to post by Danbones


I explained all of that in my previous post. Although, it was pagan not satanic.

yeah the link didn't translate
its a google scraper that leaves no search records
sorry bought that...

when I search occult, or satanic, architecture on google there are tons of links.

Ben Franklin for example belonged to many secret societies:
www.infowars.com...

A good example of what I see would be GWB
a professed Christian who belongs to a secret society Skull and Bones.
"God my father told me to go to war in Iraq"
oops no WMDs

I know retired Hells Angels "upstanding members of the community" that go to christian churches.
you have to murder some one to be HA

Ted Haggard is another example of what I see- a homosexual meth hed
leader of the National Assosiation of Evangelicals..

People use the cover of christianity to access power all the time.
the founding fathers were all members of secret societies.