Our Founding Fathers were Christians, Prove me wrong. You Can't., page 1


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Topic started on 30-5-2010 @ 06:33 PM by Loken68
Alot of people still want to make the claim that our Nation wasn't founded on Christian Principle's. well after looking at these list I sort of doubt that.

Declaration of Independance
Name of Signer State Religious Affiliation
Charles Carroll Maryland Catholic
Samuel Huntington Connecticut Congregationalist
Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist
William Williams Connecticut Congregationalist
Oliver Wolcott Connecticut Congregationalist
Lyman Hall Georgia Congregationalist
Samuel Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Hancock Massachusetts Congregationalist
Josiah Bartlett New Hampshire Congregationalist
William Whipple New Hampshire Congregationalist
William Ellery Rhode Island Congregationalist
John Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian
Robert Treat Paine Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian
George Walton Georgia Episcopalian
John Penn North Carolina Episcopalian
George Ross Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Thomas Heyward Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
Thomas Lynch Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
Arthur Middleton South Carolina Episcopalian
Edward Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian
Francis Lightfoot Lee Virginia Episcopalian
Richard Henry Lee Virginia Episcopalian
George Read Delaware Episcopalian
Caesar Rodney Delaware Episcopalian
Samuel Chase Maryland Episcopalian
William Paca Maryland Episcopalian
Thomas Stone Maryland Episcopalian
Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts Episcopalian
Francis Hopkinson New Jersey Episcopalian
Francis Lewis New York Episcopalian
Lewis Morris New York Episcopalian
William Hooper North Carolina Episcopalian
Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
John Morton Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Stephen Hopkins Rhode Island Episcopalian
Carter Braxton Virginia Episcopalian
Benjamin Harrison Virginia Episcopalian
Thomas Nelson Jr. Virginia Episcopalian
George Wythe Virginia Episcopalian
Thomas Jefferson Virginia Episcopalian (Deist)
Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist)
Button Gwinnett Georgia Episcopalian; Congregationalist
James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopalian; Presbyterian
Joseph Hewes North Carolina Quaker, Episcopalian
George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker, Episcopalian
Thomas McKean Delaware Presbyterian
Matthew Thornton New Hampshire Presbyterian
Abraham Clark New Jersey Presbyterian
John Hart New Jersey Presbyterian
Richard Stockton New Jersey Presbyterian
John Witherspoon New Jersey Presbyterian
William Floyd New York Presbyterian
Philip Livingston New York Presbyterian
James Smith Pennsylvania Presbyterian
George Taylor Pennsylvania Presbyterian
Benjamin Rush Pennsylvania Presbyterian

The Constitution
Name of Signer State Religious Affiliation
Daniel Carroll Maryland Catholic
Thomas Fitzsimons Pennsylvania Catholic
Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist
Nathaniel Gorham Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Langdon New Hampshire Congregationalist
Nicholas Gilman New Hampshire Congregationalist
Abraham Baldwin Georgia Congregationalist; Episcopalian
William Samuel Johnson Connecticut Episcopalian; Presbyterian
James Madison Jr. Virginia Episcopalian
George Read Delaware Episcopalian
Daniel of St. Thomas Jenifer Maryland Episcopalian
David Brearly New Jersey Episcopalian
Richard Dobbs Spaight, Sr. North Carolina Episcopalian
Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Gouverneur Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
John Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney South Carolina Episcopalian
Charles Pinckney South Carolina Episcopalian
Pierce Butler South Carolina Episcopalian
George Washington Virginia Episcopalian
Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist)
William Blount North Carolina Episcopalian; Presbyterian
James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopalian; Presbyteran
Rufus King Massachusetts Episcopalian; Congregationalist
Jacob Broom Delaware Lutheran
William Few Georgia Methodist
Richard Bassett Delaware Methodist
Gunning Bedford Jr. Delaware Presbyterian
James McHenry Maryland Presbyterian
William Livingston New Jersey Presbyterian
William Paterson New Jersey Presbyterian
Hugh Williamson North Carolina Presbyterian
Jared Ingersoll Pennsylvania Presbyterian
Alexander Hamilton New York Huguenot; Presbyterian; Episcopalian
Jonathan Dayton New Jersey Presbyterian; Episcopalian
John Blair Virginia Presbyterian; Episcopalian
John Dickinson Delaware Quaker; Episcopalian
George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker; Episcopalian
Thomas Mifflin Pennsylvania Quaker; Lutheran


Name of Non-Signing Delegate State Religious Affiliation
Oliver Ellsworth Connecticut Congregationalist
Caleb Strong Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Lansing, Jr. New York Dutch Reformed
Robert Yates New York Dutch Reformed
William Houstoun Georgia Episcopalian
William Leigh Pierce Georgia Episcopalian
Luther Martin Maryland Episcopalian
John F. Mercer Maryland Episcopalian
Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts Episcopalian
George Mason Virginia Episcopalian
Edmund J. Randolph Virginia Episcopalian
George Wythe Virginia Episcopalian
James McClurg Virginia Presbyterian
William C. Houston New Jersey Presbyterian
William R. Davie North Carolina Presbyterian
Alexander Martin North Carolina Presbyterian


List Source

What is really nice about these guys is that they knew there would be other religions involved in this great country and they gave them their rights to right along with those who did not have any beliefs. So the big question is why try to undo or deny what the founding fathers created.

Mod Edit: New External Source Tags – Please Review This Link.



[edit on 5/30/2010 by TheRedneck]


reply posted on 30-5-2010 @ 06:44 PM by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by Loken68


The Founding Fathers were renaissance men, while outwardly being Christians most of them, in their personal faith, were Deists, they saw God as a grand watch-maker who created the Universe, wound it and then let it tick on without really interfering. Many of them belonged to secret societies that had less than Christian reputations, Ben Franklin was a notable member of Hellfire Club in London.

Thomas Jefferson owned a Koran and even donated it to the library of Congress.

So while each of them professed Christianity as their primary faith they were learned men who studied facets of many philosophies and religions.

The country, however, was NOT founded on Christian principles, at least not those found in the Bible.

There is a misconception going around that the ten commandments are the basis of our government. How many of the commandments actually made it into the Constitution? I don't see anything in there about coveting wives, graven images, working on the Sabbath, etc.

I also don't see eye for an eye OR turn the other cheek. There's nothing about how a woman who's raped should be forced to marry her attacker or that a woman who's not a virgin on her wedding night should be put to death. I don't see anything about where to sprinkle blood on an alter, whether or not eating shellfish is okay or how children who talk back to their parents ought to be killed. I also didn't see anything about blood sacrifice, atoning for sins or wiping out those that don't believe in your particular God.

In short very little, if any, of our nation was founded on Christian principles or anything found in the Bible. Our nation was founded on freedom of religion and on separating religion from power and politics. The Founding Fathers knew what had happened in Europe, tyrannical Kings claiming divine rule running around burning people at the stake executing them for things as simple as saying the Earth wasn't the center of the Universe. Power and religion just don't mix which is why the Founding Fathers kept religion OUT of the government they created.



[edit on 30-5-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

[edit on 30-5-2010 by Titen-Sxull]


reply posted on 30-5-2010 @ 07:03 PM by Loken68
reply to post by Titen-Sxull

RUBBBBBBISSSSHHHHH

We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775]-John Hancock

John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
“[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798

"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson
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John Quincy Adams:
“Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"?
--1837, at the age of 69, when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts.

“The Law given from Sinai [The Ten Commandments] was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code.”
John Quincy Adams.
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Benjamin Franklin: “ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel”

[edit on 30-5-2010 by Loken68]


reply posted on 30-5-2010 @ 07:16 PM by LordBucket
reply to post by Loken68



Our Founding Fathers were Christians, Prove me wrong. You Can't.


Our Founding Fathers were aliens from outer space. Prove me wrong. You can't.


reply posted on 30-5-2010 @ 07:20 PM by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by Violater1


You keep singing your tune of false hood. But the truth is in the link I gave. I could care less what you think.

[edit on 30-5-2010 by Romantic_Rebel]


reply posted on 30-5-2010 @ 07:20 PM by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by Loken68



Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people


Where does this sentence say that our nation was founded on Christianity?

Note that I never debated that the Founding Fathers were Christian, you're right they were BUT this nation was not founded on what is contained in the Bible. Had they used the Bible as the basis lying, making graven images, working on the Sabbath, and worshiping Gods other than Yahweh or Jesus would be considered illegal. It is clear from what is written in the Constitution that religion figured into it only sparingly and that they were more concerned with limiting the power of the government and keeping liberty intact than whether or not shellfish or pork are okay to eat.

Also, you might want to take a look at the Treaty of Tripoli:

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.


Source

While the Founding Fathers were personally Christian the United States is not a Christian nation and the laws and Constitution are not at all based on Biblical laws or statutes.

The Bible is a very poor moral code. Stoning people, genocide, rape victims having to marry the rapist. People working on the Sabbath should be put to death? The Bible fails as a moral code in every way and in my opinion had almost no influence whatsoever on the formation of America. The teachings of the Bible are counter-intuitive to everything this nation stood for. The only part I can think of that they actually used was the part about slaves obeying their masters, and we know that didn't turn out well.

[edit on 30-5-2010 by Titen-Sxull]


reply posted on 30-5-2010 @ 07:21 PM by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by Violater1


Its a well known historical fact that many of the Founding Father's were Deists. I'm not here to give out free history lessons, do a google search and get over it


reply posted on 30-5-2010 @ 07:23 PM by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by Violater1


Why don't you find a source instead of being rude!
Another great link for skeptics! www.commondreams.org...

[edit on 30-5-2010 by Romantic_Rebel]


reply posted on 30-5-2010 @ 07:27 PM by LordBucket
reply to post by Violater1



Sources please.
In none are provided, Fail.


Completely missed the point. Fail.

Let's try this again:

Our Founding Fathers were flamingos bio-engineered to look like humans, and occupied by a group consciousness from a planet orbiting Arcturus.

Prove me wrong. You can't.

Of course we can't prove they weren't christians.


reply posted on 30-5-2010 @ 07:32 PM by PuterMan
reply to post by Titen-Sxull


Thomas Jefferson owned a Koran and even donated it to the library of Congress.


I own a Qur'an and my father was a Church of England priest so I am well versed in Anglicanism, so your point is?

Anyone who has an interest in religion and it's place in the world, and who professes a faith, or does not in fact, should be aware of many (or all) brands of faith and not just their own.

Since my relatives left for the New World in the 1600's, and were very religious - one was a Deacon and arrived on the Mayflower with the Pilgrim Fathers, I would imagaine - though I cannot prove it - that they were religious still at the point that they declared Independence. The fact that they were aware of other religions does not in any way negate that.


reply posted on 30-5-2010 @ 07:34 PM by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by PuterMan


My point was that the Founding Fathers were learned men who used their collective wisdom to craft our government. They weren't biased towards using Christian principles or the Bible as a guide, they had their own ideas from studying a great deal of different philosophies to form educated opinions.

So ultimately I was saying they were Christian but not limited to using Christian ideas. In fact if one reads the Constitution its hard to see the influence of the Bible or Christianity at all.
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