Does God Have A Future?

Originally posted by TheTruthIsFromGod
God is the Creator of the Universe, your Creator and mine.

Saying what you've said is as if you say the Sun depends on a sociological phenomenon or on our thoughts.

That is not a great analogy.

Firstly, the assertion that there was a deity responsible for the creation of the universe (and you an I) is an assumption. The observable universe and each of the sciences reject the idea of a top-down creation scheme.

Secondly, the sun is an object that can be seen, felt and observed and is not an invisible entity unsupported by any evidence whatsoever as "god" is.

Belief in deities affects everyone directly or indirectly and is a real sociological phenomenon. And as science advances it very well may answer current unknowns about the beginning of the universe (which is an area currently attributed to the activity of gods). The devout believers will at that point be forced to find a new domain for their deity to reside. Eventually there might be no place left for the deities to hide and believers could face quite a conundrum.

I would like to pose a question to all the Monotheists in this thread.


Why do you not give thanks to Ra every morning for bringing the sun back every day?

It's a serious question and I would hope those of you would have the maturity to answer with all due seriousness. If you can answer me this truthfully, I can show you many wonders about yourselves and reality.

Originally posted by sirnex
I would like to pose a question to all the Monotheists in this thread.


Why do you not give thanks to Ra every morning for bringing the sun back every day?

You know, there's arguments out there that suggest that christians unknowingly are doing precisely that

Curious side note: christianity is NOT a monotheistic religion... it is a techncally a henotheistic religion.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


True, but I was trying to avoid an all out war.

I can just imagine the mass of Christians bickering now that you've pointed that out.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Curious side note: christianity is NOT a monotheistic religion... it is a techncally a henotheistic religion.

Absolutely correct traditionaldrummer. When Christendom began converting the Pagans they would often take Pagan deities and make them into Christian saints, so the converts could still technically pray to their gods who would then be subordinate to the higher god.

Also we must acknowledge that certain sects of Christianity, such as the Chruch of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints see the Christian Holy Trininty as three separate entities: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. This is essentially three gods ruling together.

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

True, but I was trying to avoid an all out war.

I can just imagine the mass of Christians bickering now that you've pointed that out.

You know, if science ends up answering the BIG questions about origins and the beginning of the universe, it's quite likely that religious-minded folks may be forced back into sun-worship. Reverence for the sun actually makes some sense.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
You know, if science ends up answering the BIG questions about origins and the beginning of the universe, it's quite likely that religious-minded folks may be forced back into sun-worship. Reverence for the sun actually makes some sense.

Indeed. You get warmth and light from the sun. It helps you grow your crops, why not try to please it?

Originally posted by dontblink
Also we must acknowledge that certain sects of Christianity, such as the Chruch of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints see the Christian Holy Trininty as three separate entities: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. This is essentially three gods ruling together.

Yes, a triune godhead must be interpreted as separate at some point.

Additionally, Roman Catholicism has many aspects of polytheism: the trinity, the Virgin Mary, the higher archangels such as Gabriel and lesser ones such as cherubim, seraphim, incubus, succubus, then even the demigods, a.k.a. "saints".

Originally posted by dontblink
Indeed. You get warmth and light from the sun. It helps you grow your crops, why not try to please it?

True, plus it doesn't tell you that you've sinned, nor does it care what you do with your genitals.

I may become a convert

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Additionally, Roman Catholicism has many aspects of polytheism: the trinity, the Virgin Mary, the higher archangels such as Gabriel and lesser ones such as cherubim, seraphim, incubus, succubus, then even the demigods, a.k.a. "saints".

Again, absolutely correct. St. Michael in Roman Catholicism is called "the lesser God" by many in the church..

God, is not subject to space and time. God exists apart and separate from space and time. God made space and time, and both are subject to Him. So the past, present, and the future are of God.

Originally posted by sirnex
I would like to pose a question to all the Monotheists in this thread.


Why do you not give thanks to Ra every morning for bringing the sun back every day?

It's a serious question and I would hope those of you would have the maturity to answer with all due seriousness. If you can answer me this truthfully, I can show you many wonders about yourselves and reality.

We don't give thanks to Ra but to God, the Master of the Universe.

We give thanks to him for bringing the Sun everyday just because it's really what he does everyday. Our scientific knowledge is limited to observation, we are far from understanding what really happens in this universe. Moreover, I am a scientist by profession and I've seen nothing which opposes what we are told in the Koran, at the contrary, I've discovered so many scientific signs in the Koran which have been discovered only during this century, and not any contradiction with it, so I don't see what can prevent one to believe that God really exists. Another proof that God exists is that any of our actions has a consequence on us. We can do things secretly and we get always the return of our actions, which is not explained by our science, but is like the law of action-reaction, which shows that the spiritual laws obey the same rules than the physical laws. The science is limited to the physical level, so you cannot demonstrate the existence of God just thanks to science.

We don't thank God just because he asks us for, we gives him thanks just because he really provides all what we need everyday, so that's normal to thank our benefactor. Just imagine one day, when these things will change, and this day will come, that's the Apocalypse, this day nobody will deny the existence of God, but it will be too late for the unbelievers.

The problem of an unbeliever is not that he doesn't believe in God. The real problem is that being an unbeliever is the consequence/result of our actions, if we act unfairly and don't make efforts to improve ourselves and to educate ourselves, then we get more and more lost, until a point where we become totaly lost and that we forget that we have become really a bad person in the broadest sense. At this point, you think you do good things whereas you are only doing bad things, that's the ultimate perdition. Most of the people are on this path of perdition because they refuse to obey their Master and Creator who knows what is good for them, as he's created them. But God is mercyful and even when we are totaly lost, he may enlight us and remind us ourselves. So what is really bad with an unbeliever is that he acts badly, he hurts himself and the others, and as he is into an illusion, he doesn't realize it.

Worshiping God is not a question of tradition or philosophy, it's the simple recognition of the truth, the absolute truth: the existence of the universe, the human species, the jinns/spirit spicies, the angels, the animals, the mineral world, the vegetal world,..., and above all the existence of God, the Master of all of this and its Creator, that's the whole truth. So now you may accept this or you may choose to believe in any other false doctrines, because any other version than this one is simply not true. It's like in maths, there is only one good answer and an infinite number of bad anwers.

Peace on you

reply to post by TheTruthIsFromGod


I respect you opinion, and I admire that you are able to reconcile science with your Faith but I must respectfully disagree with you. We cannot quantify the existance of God, as soon as someone shows me the scientific evidence for the existence of the Supreme Being, then I'll consider it.

Originally posted by TheTruthIsFromGod
Moreover, I am a scientist by profession and I've seen nothing which opposes what we are told in the Koran, at the contrary, I've discovered so many scientific signs in the Koran which have been discovered only during this century, and not any contradiction with it, so I don't see what can prevent one to believe that God really exists.

There are several places in the Koran which state that God creates shooting stars to throw at evil jinn and devils who are eavesdropping upon heaven (Suras 15:16-18, 37:6-8, 55:33-35, 67:5).

According to Sura 18:86, Dhu’l-Qarneyn traveled until he reached the place where the sun sets, and he found that it set in a muddy spring. He then traveled until he reached the place where the sun rises, and found a people who got scorched due to its close proximity.

In several passages in the Koran, God placed mountains on the earth to act like tent pegs to prevent earthquakes (Suras 16:15, 21:31, and especially 78:6-7).

According to Sura 86:6-7, male semen proceed from a place “between the backbone and the ribs” during sexual intercourse.


All of these things in the Koran have been proven false by scientific discovery

Originally posted by Fromabove

God, is not subject to space and time. God exists apart and separate from space and time. God made space and time, and both are subject to Him. So the past, present, and the future are of God.

What evidence is there for this? It's not mentioned in scripture, so where are you basing this belief on?

The fundamental problem when it comes to deciding who or what created the universe is that people are always thinking of time as a linear thing that starts in one place and ends up in another. But that's just an illusion our memories and expectations do to time to help order it.

The truth of the matter is that time doesn't move in any particular direction, and energy flows perfectly well from the "future" into the "past" as it does the other way around. Think of it like a sponge, full of holes, some of them going a short distance, others going all the way through in all directions. That's what time is like.

So there really was no creation, in the sense that there used to be nothing, and then there was something. Everything has always been, and continues to expand and contract in all directions and dimensions, looping back in on itself. Consciousness helps define it, but human beings have a very difficult time comprehending it.

[edit on 21-5-2010 by Blue Shift]

I have enjoyed this thread, and want to contribute

So what then would God be all about? It is the why of God, more than the if. If he's not, then he's not and we are just pissing in the wind. And if God Is, then the mystery of His origins would be equally mysterious as the origins of a universe without Him. Religion however, does not delve into the mysteries of God's beginning. It makes no sense to ask that question. There is no sense to any question about origins anyway. The only fact is that existence itself is real, and populated by matter, energy, dimension, life, and consciousness, with the possibility of spirit as well. We just do not know about that last one, but only because we have no way yet to measure it. If all this is mere illusion, then the illusion itself is what is real, although we also have no way to measure that. But either way, to have anything of either proposition in existence now, something must be forever, ungenerated, and therefore holy, whether transcendent or not. If God is real, then He is the big bang. Or if God is a dream, then the Big Bang becomes god. There is one thing, however, which you cannot dispute, and THAT is the only thing you know for sure. It is the one absolute reality you cannot question.
You, yourself, are real. Think for a moment. If you do think, then you know: for thinking is not calculation, any computer can do that. Two plus two always equals four. But even as the mind calculates, it is watching itself do so: perceiving the experience. It is this awareness, the consciousness behind thinking that is real. It is inside of your body, it is what we call "I" and it alone is something unquestionably real. If you believe you are alone in the universe, which is possible though unlikely, this would be all the more strange than it already is, thus leaving You to be a god in solitary confinement. Therefore, you may not be unnecessarily generous in expressing the opinion that others around you, parents, children, friends, acquaintences, probably also share in having this subjective state as well and therefore joining you in reality. And you also know that you did not create Yourself.
Whether this came from creation, or evolution hardly matters, except for the possibility that death may mean extinction. And only by theology is this unsettling question addressed, thus its persistent appearance in world history, and the unmittigated fear caused by a different answer (as well as the abuses generated by the variety of answers).
We cannot answer this question which rests upon the possibility of spirit, but we are indisputably here to ask it, and to be aware of ourselves asking it. And that is the ultimate reality we may know. Evolution is an impressive theory, for it charts the journey of life since its origins: from the chemical structures that animate cells, to the forms that are recorded in the fossil record, to the changes that have actually been observed in species with short, mutable life spans. But it cannot explain the absolute beginning of the existence of matter and energy which make up chemicals, which generate and perpetuate life. Neither can religion. There are no indisputable answers to this conundrum. So be IN the mystery of this, where all answers are great because the question itself is even greater. Be at peace in the now, and remember the very human story of what was left over after Pandora opened the box letting demons escape: Hope.

Originally posted by Dromadus
So what then would God be all about?

Paradox, apparently. Because why would an all-encompassing, infinite and infinitely powerful entity existing inside and outside time and space do anything? As human beings and animals, we're motivated by pain and pleasure to eat, keep moving, reproduce, find safety, and so on. But what would be this entity's motivation? It would have no needs.

So the paradox is fundamental and incomprehensible to human beings, and suggests that even if there were such an entity, it would mean nothing to our every day existences. It makes no difference. Which is pretty much the same as not existing.

Originally posted by Fromabove

God, is not subject to space and time. God exists apart and separate from space and time. God made space and time, and both are subject to Him. So the past, present, and the future are of God.

And that is your BELIEF, and you have ZERO facts or evidence to support your claim. I might just as well replace "God" with "the mighty spaghetti monster", and it would just be as valid...

reply to post by faceoff85


I will be more than happy to include you on my mail list, if you forward an email address to me by U2U...

I have a series of standard Emails I send out weekly to many people, starting from the beginning of the All, detailing the Structure of the New City Jerusalem and all its workings, including The Language of the Soul.

This will involve about 40 emails to bring you up to date some 1,000 Pages so far, mainly consisting of Geometric Drawings, with some (Little) written explanation and references.

I have done it this way, as it is said "a Picture contains a thousand words".

What I have documented involves more than 50,000 Geometric Drawings.
Yes I did write; “more than fifty thousand Drawings”, detailing step by step the full construct, backed up by photos from all over the world, showing evidence of this, in the form of Architecture and decor in, your own Cathedrals, Monasteries, churches and temples of most religions, Government buildings, and Palaces etc. some dating back 1500 years and evidence before this time.

So don't expect to know it all in 2 seconds flat.... LOL.
It may take a couple of years to go through it all ???

The Geometry in the Décor, referring to the buildings mentioned above, is the same in most religions, including Roman Doctrine and the breakaway groups, that make up the other denominations today.


Now from your bible with reference to being taken out of the World...

“The Gospel According to John” Ch. 15 v. 13 to 27.... Verse 18 & 19... (Here Jesus is talking to his disciples) Quote;

18. If the world hate you,
ye know that it hated Me,
before it hated you.

19. If ye were of the world,
the world would love his own:

but because ye are Not of the world,
but I have chosen you out of the world,
therefore the world hate you.

Now I have never claimed to be a prophet of God, and never shall, but rather I am the opposite, being the least on Earth.

In 1973 (August) I was taken out of the World....and put back into the World again.


You may assume, that the things mentioned in "The Revelation of J.C." happens to every person at the same time, but nowhere in the bible or other Christian writings does it say this.


Every Soul, experiences these things, in there own time appointed by The Father, according to the Workings of The Father, as My Lord separates off each and every soul, to perform the “Metamorphoses of the Soul”, described in "The Revelation of J.C.", Individually.

This is one of the Reasons why, "No man knoweth the hour", "No, not even The Christ, but The Father only". Jesus also states this in the bible.

It is written in a Christian writing, Not of the Roman Collection of writings, called the bible today (these writings being chosen by males of the Roman church)

Again from “The Gospel of Thomas” which the Romans Hate, because in this writing are the words of Jesus Christ, against Roman Doctrine.... Quote;

51. His disciple said to Him,

“When will the repose of the dead come about,
and when will the New World come?”

He said to them,

“What you look forward to has already come,
but you do Not recognise it.”

The writings in the bible are a Parable for the True Mind or LIFE, and do not relate to the Flesh, other than mentioning some of the history of the Descendants of A’ DAM…

What is being described in the writings, is totally different than what you are taught today.

You will find a description of The Soul in "The Book of Ezekiel" Ch. 40 (all of Chapter 40) Referring to the New Temple (Soul) as described also in "The Revelation of J.C."

Again from “The Gospel of Thomas”… Quote;
(which I have repeated many times before.)

39. Jesus said,

“The Pharisees and the Scribes
have taken The Keys of Knowledge
and Hidden Them.

They themselves have NOT entered,
nor have they allowed to enter
those who wish to.

In the bible, Jesus also says….

”Woe unto you Scribes and Pharisees, and Hypocrites.”

So what is the interest in the Scribe???

Some try to have you believe, that the scribes were a group of people back in the days of Jesus the Carpenter, but the truth of the Matter is, that it was the Scribes that compiled the writings you call the bible today, and it is the Scribes, that are involved in the translation processes, and interpretations of today…

The old meaning of a Scribe referred to an Ancient Jewish teacher of Mosaic law, but conveniently the churches today, omit to inform you, that the word "Scribe" also refers to; A clerk, public writer, or amanuensis.
I wonder why??? LOL.

So no wonder Jesus said

”Woe unto you Scribes and Pharisees, and Hypocrites.”

Note; that I also said Jesus the Carpenter that J.C. Spoke through made absolutely NO reference to the bible, the Roman church or any denomination that came from the Roots of the Roman church.

He certainly never mentioned a single pope, or to people to form the Roman church, or to go out and produce a Roman collection of writings, called the bible today, and make it the largest seller (Book) on Earth.

The Book of LIFE Fortunately is in The Soul.

To sell these writings is nothing less than Sacrilege, and has turned the Gift into money…

Do you really believe making money out of bibles is a Christ like thing to do???

J.C. said to me "Freely I give to you, so freely give to others, as I have given to you."

Jesus commanded that we give up everything that we have to the poor and follow Him.

How many people can do this ???

I mean give up everything and follow J.C. ???

Sadly, I don’t see many do you ???

Have a look at all those cars, parked outside any churches and look at the cloths people wear, to be seen by others, and Love to pray in pretence and be seen by others in the churches.

See how the priests and ministers, Love to be greeted in the market places, and how they love to dress in fine garments to be seen by others…

Jesus also described the above behaviour.

Remember the woman and how she only had 2 mites to give.

Jesus says to pray in secret, go into your closet, and close the door and pray in secret, and your Father in Heaven will reward you in secret…

All this may sound Harsh to you, but you can’t have it both ways…

If we try to have it both ways, then we are seen to be a Hypocrite…

Today the collection is taken up, or the tithe so called (which is nothing more than a bad joke) in churches and blessed on the altar ???

Something is very, very wrong ????

If my Lord were to turn over those Money tables again and pass through the churches with a whip… welllllllll.

But I guess He would be arrested again today, if He did this…

Guess Nothing much has really changed at all has it???


[edit on 21-5-2010 by The Matrix Traveller]