It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Does God Have A Future?

page: 2
5
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 20 2010 @ 10:35 AM
link   

Originally posted by faceoff85
I think you went wrong when mentioning percentage of likelihood as an argument to base ones beliefsystem in.... As you have described its quite a far-fetch to place ones faith in a deity but.... everything coming together by chance? You surely have seen the numbers wich detail the chances of our earth being here with us and the rest of life on earth by chance... if you look at it that way it is most definetely more plausible for some creator to have brought things about then to think it was all merely "luck". Now if you take physical evidence as your personal indicator it becomes more complicated... but then I'll jst say this... where there is smoke, there is a fire... and I see a hell of alot of smoke...

But there is also the other theory that what we think comes into reality... if thats the case us ATS'ers are probably going to be responsible for the end of the world as I see tons of people saying: "the end is nigh" damn talk about a feeling of guilt if thats the case


[edit on 20-5-2010 by faceoff85]


A common assumption from creationists is that if the universe was not created, the only other option would be "chance". I don't believe that to be the case nor do I believe many scientists do either. Chance and randomness are factors in nearly everything but not the ONLY factor.

And if one assumes a creator, why remove chance from that assumption? What are the chances that an omnipotent being with the power to create a universe would do such a thing?




posted on May, 20 2010 @ 10:44 AM
link   
Man, A god to you might be a deity. A god to someone else might be the life flow of energy, the inner nature you might say. You can actually feel a universal consciousness while meditating. I have felt it before, and no one can really say else wise. There might not be a god, but a universal field were all apart of let’s say might be believable. Read my stroke of insight, it is really interesting.



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 10:47 AM
link   

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

A common assumption from creationists is that if the universe was not created, the only other option would be "chance". I don't believe that to be the case nor do I believe many scientists do either. Chance and randomness are factors in nearly everything but not the ONLY factor.

And if one assumes a creator, why remove chance from that assumption? What are the chances that an omnipotent being with the power to create a universe would do such a thing?


I believe everything actually was created, just to get that out of the way... now how my deity went about when creating everything he doesn't tell so we could fill that in using science (in general).
Chance isn't a factor in creationism since god INTENDED to create earth... he never intended for adam and eve to screw things up though, so you could call that situation chance... now the bible gives a pretty good idea as to WHY a omnipotent deity would be moved to bring all this into existence. But I realize thats not really gonna work on you

you know you should cut me some slack and just believe me



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 10:51 AM
link   

Originally posted by Maddogkull
Man, A god to you might be a deity. A god to someone else might be the life flow of energy, the inner nature you might say. You can actually feel a universal consciousness while meditating. I have felt it before, and no one can really say else wise. There might not be a god, but a universal field were all apart of let’s say might be believable. Read my stroke of insight, it is really interesting.


Again, a feeling experienced while meditating is little more than subjective interpretation of a trancendental experience. I don' doubt you've experienced it: many have. Trying to prove it an objective reality is difficult. Many new agers are trying to use mysteries of quantum physics to validate this interpretation. This topic is included in the debate, actually.



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 10:55 AM
link   

Originally posted by faceoff85
Chance isn't a factor in creationism since god INTENDED to create earth...


Chance IS a factor because the chances of a creator intending to create the universe to test the faith of a moderately intelligent primate species seems fairly low. In fact, it seems, chance plays a larger part in that scenario than the universe coming into existence from some physical cause.



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 11:59 AM
link   
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 




The full debate on Youtube


...I'm only partway through, but so far this debate mostly seems to be people taking turns talking about nothing in particular.



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 12:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by faceoff85
Chance isn't a factor in creationism since god INTENDED to create earth...


Chance IS a factor because the chances of a creator intending to create the universe to test the faith of a moderately intelligent primate species seems fairly low. In fact, it seems, chance plays a larger part in that scenario than the universe coming into existence from some physical cause.


I am also half-way and must say it becomes a bit monotone after a while... like the scuffle between the debaters though.
But seriously in creationism chance isn't a factor when it comes to the creation of the universe... you portray the chance of a omnipotent deity being interested in us simple-minded beings quite small but you forget a crucial detail... creationism teaches humans to be the pinacle of creation. also according to the bible humans nowadays are but a shadow of their former self (adam and eve) would you be more inclined to believe god would be interested in us if we had powers like superman? well, we might have had just that. I believe humans have devolved slowly from being perfect to VERY imperfect. The bible talks of this faintly. Adam was master of all animals in creation (for the rest of his ablities we have no clue) when humans became imperfect they started out as people living up to almost a thousand years. early humans were capable of performing miracles (the story of mozes were the egyptian priests mimiced some of the 10 plagues). then the very next "perfect human" Jesus came to earth (he was an angel but when sent to earth he was human all the way) now the miracles he performed were done in the name of his father so one can doubt wether he really did it himself or wether god performed them for Jesus. But there is this one instance where Jesus succesfully escapes a angry mob... Now picture that scene if you will.. he must have been quite the athlete to be able to shake of a mob all looking for his face...

Now I believe there is alot of folklore mentioning humans having supernatural powers and I am inclined to not write all of them off as hoax... just look at ninja-movies and how their abilities are depicted... I have talked to "white-magic" users saying those abilities in the past were actually real... nowadays we can barely find a trace of it but that's why I say over the century's man has lost something....

[edit on 20-5-2010 by faceoff85]



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 12:43 PM
link   
reply to post by faceoff85
 


I tend to think completely opposite of the biblical claims. Everything in the observable universe appears to contradict many of its claims. Science has proven that some of its claims are completely and utterly false (origins of rainbows, demons causing disease, etc). There is good reason to doubt all of its metaphysical claims also since so much of the rest of the claims have been proven incorrect.



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 12:46 PM
link   
I don't know if the debate answered the central question that it set out to, but the debate featured very interesting points from both sides. I was unimpressed with Chopra's emotional outbursts though; it seemed to lessen his integrity somewhat.



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 12:59 PM
link   
If God is your thing go with it and to hell with the critics, if you can find comfort in the fact that we live and die and that is all power to you. Is God going to have a place in our future? Probbaly.

Maybe religion needs to stop seeing science as its arch-nemesis and maybe science needs to stop seeing religion as an antiquainted ideal needing to be conqured. Shouldn't science be the answer to how and not the answer to why no matter what you believe?

As an agnostic I support the scientific evidence of how our universe was created and the evidence of where we come from as a species, but I also believe that there is more to the human condition and our universe than cold hard facts. Is it God? I really don't know.

[edit on 20-5-2010 by dontblink]



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 01:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
I don't know if the debate answered the central question that it set out to, but the debate featured very interesting points from both sides. I was unimpressed with Chopra's emotional outbursts though; it seemed to lessen his integrity somewhat.


Yup agree with you there... the way he used his voice to demand attention was in my POV bad advertising...
I feel the future of "god" is quite certain... humans will always look up to a god in one way or another... as talked about in the video's this could mean any number of things... I believe all humans even you have some sort of deity in the form of an idea or conviction so in that light there will always be deity's... now wether the same can be said for humanity? I am less certain..



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 01:42 PM
link   

Originally posted by faceoff85
I feel the future of "god" is quite certain... humans will always look up to a god in one way or another... as talked about in the video's this could mean any number of things... I believe all humans even you have some sort of deity in the form of an idea or conviction so in that light there will always be deity's...


I agree with you there. Some scientists suggest there may even be genetic wiring for belief in gods and/or evolutionary benefts for belief in gods.

At one point in the debate it was mentioned that interpretations of ancient religions become modified for the times and that we also may be on the brink of forming new religions based upon the modern zeitgeist. Scientology and even Mormonism could be viewed as such, and I tend to believe that the alien enthusiasts are bordering on becoming a religious type institution.



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 02:46 PM
link   
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


I lost a lot of respect or deepak, the way he touched the reporter’s arm every 2 seconds with his finger, to take the floor. I was thinking what are you 2 years old. Have some patience



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 03:43 PM
link   
The Past and the Future are of the same, and called the PRESENT...

The Gift is The PRESENT....



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 03:58 PM
link   
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 
Chopak shows up Shermer's debating skills in his introduction, but loses it by arguing incredulity of the Big Bang to leverage a crack in physics were God can abide. Harris is clearer and steers close to arguing from ridicule without being wholly dismissive.

This subject is usually a cut and dried, B&W assortment of opposing views...I watched the 1st vid with that certainty. Then I watched a few more because the discussion became more interesting than I expected.

The debate reminded me of the blind guys describing an elephant. The 'elephant' was their own perspective of what they thought God meant to others. Despite Chopak and Harris attempting to define their concept of what God represents, I felt they were all arguing at cross-purposes.



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 04:23 PM
link   
What is God?

This is given in the Roman collection of Greek and Hebrew Writings known as the bible today....

In The Gospel According to John… K.J. version. Chapter 1 to 5 Quote;


1. In the beginning was The "Word",


( a "Word" is a String of Letters usually used in Communication)



and The Word was God.


So the "Word" referred to is spelt GODG, O, D.


2. He was in the beginning with God.


Who is the "He" that is mentioned here?


3. All things were made through Him,


Here the word “Him” is used again, and that All things were made through "Him"…


and without Him nothing was made that was made.


All was made Through "Him", that is “Himwho was with God.


4. In Him was LIFE,
and the LIFE was the LIGHT of Men


So The "Him" is LIVING... i.e. Alive, Aware, Conscious, or The True Mind.

Refer to an Ancient Book called...

"The Thunder Perfect Mind"

Easily found on the net.


5. And the LIGHT shines in the Darkness,
and the darkness did Not comprehend it.


The above would suggest that God comprises of 2 Components…

a. A "Word" in this case, the "Word" is spelt G, O, D. or God.

b. LIFE which is the LIGHT.


In the original Greek text, this is Sun LIGHT hence "The SUN of Righteousness" referred to, in the Book of MALACHI in the O.T.

These 2 Components Combined, form a 3rd Component...


On the Covers of old bibles and Hymn books was this…



Or in its true Form.... See The "I N Z" in the drawing below.



The "I N Z" refers to the "Geometric Algorithm" that All was/is Created through.

a. The “I” refers to the First movement, "To & Fro" of the True Mind ("Consciousness", "Awareness" or The LIFE.)

b. The “N” refers to the "To & Fro" movement, but in 2 Directions (Up & Down, Left & Right Simultaneously. )

c. The “Z” is the Rotation of the “N”, The Second Function, "Rotation" of the True Mind (Consciousness, Awareness or The LIFE.)

Everything that exists is either straight (To & Fro) or Curved (Rotation) or the Combination of these 2.

There are No other shapes in existence.

So these 2 are the Geometric building blocks of All.

Because All is Created from Opposites Found in the I N Z,
it is Also known as "The Paradoxical Geometric Algorithm"…

The "I N Z" can be seen in every humans Face as well as many other Species...

Check it out... Look at others or at your own face in a mirror ???

The nose forms the "I"
The Eyes are in the top 2 triangles of the Word I N Z
And the mouth is the lower section of the Word.

Note the forming of the cheeks above the mouth, revealing the Lower section of the "X"
formed by the "N" and "Z" in the Word I N Z ???



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 04:31 PM
link   
If god doesn't have a future, nothing does because everything is part and parcel of god, including all living entities. If god doesn,t exist, then neither do we. It would be like looking at a tree and saying the leaves exist (us) but the tree (god) does not. Can't have one without the other.

[edit on 20-5-2010 by bargoose]



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 04:46 PM
link   

Originally posted by Maddogkull
Well science will not have the answers in 100 years for "everything" so by saying that people will still cling to god. Until they have 100% and I mean 100% answers then god might not have a future. But who knows we are already finding tons of mysteries out there. I have always wondered "if" those skeptics actually saw proof of god i bet they would deny it anyway. The sceptics these days are atheists, they are skeptical to the degree that they only believe in their one sided argument. To be a skepitc you got to find every explanation available and approach it with an opened mind. Skeptics these days "just" try to debunk supernatural and never take it into account. Great Link though. S&F


See, that just kind of ticks me off.

Because I question invisible explanations that produce lack of evidence, I'm one sided? That's just ignorant and insulting. Why would anyone believe in anything invisible and unfalsifiable?

You say I'm one sided, OK... If I told you that a giant anus eating bug was the creator of humanity for the sole purpose of farming us to eat our anus' would you believe me?

Do you realize that if you don't accept my invisible unfalsifiable explanation that would make you a hypocrite?

@OP

I don't think 'God" has a future in science. First, I have to ask *which* God? Why can't Osiris have a future in science? What do people have against Osiris? Why isn't everyone worshiping him?



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 04:47 PM
link   

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
There are No other shapes in existence.


Except for the platonic solids and maybe a rhombus or two.

So what does this esoteric stuff have to do with the topic?



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 04:54 PM
link   

Originally posted by sirnex
I don't think 'God" has a future in science. First, I have to ask *which* God? Why can't Osiris have a future in science? What do people have against Osiris? Why isn't everyone worshiping him?



I don't think science has a place for deities anyway. I think the question really becomes a matter of whether science will advance far enough to encroach onto all the territories currently occupied by deities effectively enough to eliminate them as a viable concept. I'm not certain science is what will do it. Atheism and agnosticism seems more closely associated with economic enrichment rather than strictly scientific knowledge. There is also no construct in place to educate the masses to many of our scientific advancements.



new topics

top topics



 
5
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join