Would A US Collapse Ultimately Be In The People's Best Interests?

This is a question I have pondered more and more lately. Like any significant change in a society, there are both pros and cons.

1. Free Enterprise of Business. Without restrictive regulations, people will be able to better negotiate terms and rates of employment. Businesses will be free to accept deals of barter in exchange for goods. Business owners will profit more from losing required expenses. But job safety and security will lose protections for the workers under such a set up.

2. Housing. Prices will come down. It may be possible to pay off or outright own faster, which will maximize profits for the homeowner. The downside is building codes will be side-stepped in the name of short cuts for builders. As well as increased costs of land for building. Some larger companies may compete in order to make housing an attractive benefit for employees.

3. Education. Public schools would become an exception compared to today's norm. There would be no real standards for curriculum, which could result in less educated individuals. But could also produce better educated graduates at lower ages as mandated curriculum would go by the wayside. Think of no longer having 12 years of English and Composition and spending that class time or other subjects like mechanical repair.

4. Community. Smaller communities that work together would overall profit better than larger cities that do not. Metropolitan areas known for rampant crime would see people leaving for the safety of small towns. Small town justice, however, would be in the hands of those running it. So things might become extreme for minor offenses.

5. Families. Families ties will become stronger as family members will depend on each other's strengths and unfortunately may be at the whim of their weaknesses. Think of the feud between the Hatfields and McCoys.

This list is by no means comprehensive. There are many other advantages and disadvantages and topics that I didn't highlight. But over all, I think that we as a people make better strides when there is a bit of adversity. A challenge to overcome. I feel that part of our problems today are from being too comfortable and too willing to let other people solve our problems. And that far too many that take on the responsibility to solve are just misusing that trust to their advantage.

And the biggest con to the whole wiping the slate clean would be how long would we back in the same boat? Or would we actually look and consider the past mistakes to prevent them from happening again?

reply to post by Ahabstar


Be careful what you wish for.

A collapse would mean no food trucks, no Police (Katrina), no law and

order.

American's would be killing each other for a bag of Frito's in 3 days.

You might want to rethink your theory.

reply to post by Sean48


And that is a very good point. Star for you.

Things would not be easy at all. In fact, quite a few people would die. But in the end, would the sacrifice be worth it? Would the costs outweigh the benefits or would we be better off without the heavy hand that we have now in so many facets of life?

reply to post by Ahabstar


I think you'll find that the cancer at the top of society would still be alive and kicking so to speak... they have enough money to do that for themselves...

While everyone argues about small things, (like censuses, mexicans, whether W is still a Nazi - all stuff that probably means something but ultimately doesnt) - the matrix is being pulled over your eyes.

So... good luck with that revolution thingy...

Dave

reply to post by Ahabstar


Ive often prayed for the day id be riding around the waste lands shooting zombies for oil in my stolen heavily armourd machine gun turreted ferrari. Because basicaly if America somehow, overnight faced complete economic and social collapse thats pretty much what most the world will be doing for a VERY LONG TIME unless you happen to get invaded by China and the Peoples Army within the first couple of weeks.

If you meant a long drawn out process of social change that will morph America into a nation of unrecognisable ideals to what you feel America should be yet still a fully functioning society none the less, meh, sure why not, it is called inevitable change. I quite like lifes little luxuries such as cups of tea and central heating and not having to shoot zombies in the face on my way to the bins in the morning.

Basicaly America collapsing, equals bad, very bad.

reply to post by daptodave


This isn't a movie. It is reality, and a little more complicated than you think it is.
As someone who stays very much on top of economics, I can tell you that those who are the wealthy have no idea how to protect that wealth in this new world order. Not everyone is on the take and many are about to lose it all. Including you and I.

I plan on defending myself from whatever may come I suggest you do the same.

How do we know that is not what TPTB want?

Perhaps they want to change the world over, bring 1st world countries, like the USA, Europe, and such to their knees.. Own us all, and such?

With the way things are going, a lot is up in the air.

We have the N.Korea and S.Korea situation.
We have the seriously convoluted Middle East issues.
We have the issues with the USA and Mexico (seems people like playing with bee hives there, someone keeps stirring up the hives).
We have the financial issues globally.

The list goes on.

If any one of those goes, it'll be a mess across the board.

Any number of those scenarios could cause a collapse. I think it's inevitable. Sadly.

Considering I need a certain simple medication to live, it's not a pretty thought..

reply to post by projectvxn


Realy?, id have thought they would protect there wealth with plenty of workable land and gold?

Id actualy like to bet you 15 qaudrillion Amero Yen dollars no financial crisis actualy really happens to any extent greater than those experianced by previous boom and bust cycles. And basicaly life will go on as normal. One thing has to be taken into a account, as time goes on theres a lot more money in circulation and people are ever increasingly connected so any bust cycle is evidently more apparent than previous times in history. But essentialy, things are no different now than times that have already passd, its all he same and always will be.

[edit on 19-5-2010 by Johnze]

[edit on 19-5-2010 by Johnze]

Total collapse (which is vague) would probably not be good for us Americans. It sounds good, I think we all wish DC would collapse and rebuild with new goals and people. But, imagine if we did collapse...the UN and NATO forces would likely take over. I think our politicians are crooks, but imagine being controlled by foreign "leaders", I don't think it would be better than what we have, and likely it would be worse.


Also, we ATS members are the minority. While we may be prepared mentally, imagine the chaos that would ensue because the majority of people absolutely depend (they say need) on the government and it's nanny services.

My main concern is the prior, with NATO and UN goons running America.

There is the old myth of the phoenix, which must immolate itself in the sacred fire and be reduced to ashes before a new more glorious phoenix can be resurrected from those ashes. In this case, the phoenix represents all of humanity and its social systems.

I am a short term pessimist and a long term optimist. I believe we are headed for a global collapse of unprecedented proportions, unlike anything ever seen in human history--which will not be fun in any manner of speaking. Basically, your worst nightmare.

It will be impossible for the US to collapse without the rest of the world collapsing along with us. Already, economists are predicting that China is about to experience a collapsed real estate bubble, similar to what we just went through. Europe is in the process of collapsing right now. So there is currently a flight to the US dollar and dollar denominated assets. But the US has the largest sovereign debt of any nation on earth---and the deficit is growing bigger every year. The idea that we can solve our debt problems by taking on more debt is ludicrous. The entire economic system of the world, which is addicted to debt, will inevitably crash and burn. And so, I dont think we have to worry about foreign invaders....every nation on earth will be dealing with its own domestic chaos...with complete failure of all corporations, governments, and social systems, resulting in raw, and probably very nasty anarchy.

But I also believe that in the end, after the global phase transition is over, we will emerge with a much better set of values and much better systems of economics, banking, government, etc. But I am talking long term, like several generations long term--probably after both you and I are dead.

Maybe this is wishful thinking, maybe not. But the coming collapse will definitely not just be similar to previous boom and bust cycles. The sheer scale of the economic, political, and social problems, along with the interconnectedness and interdependencies required to support six billion people on this planet, pretty much ensures that when the system crashes, its going to result in unprecedented loss of life.

If you havent already started to prepare for this eventuality, you better get cracking.

[edit on 19-5-2010 by Angiras]

[edit on 19-5-2010 by Angiras]

The rest of the world would run amok without the threat of the US war machine.

Israel and South Korea would have a very limited timeframe to find new and as-capable bodyguards before they were eliminated.

The UN would be powerless and scoffed at without a US presence. World policing would cease, and places like the Sudan would become even sadder and deadlier without some kind of outside influence.

Countries that rely on US aid would suffer terribly. Humanitarian crusades originating from the US would end.

China could decide to flex it's newly gained status and expand their "republic". Japan a sitting duck?

A certain South American dictator would act on his prior delusions of grandeur; not so delusional anymore with no US.

Illegal immigration would no longer be an issue for the US, as the flow would be reversed. Countries around the globe will be complaining about those dang US immigrants.

All the above being said, if the US collapse happens because of a revolution, the story would be a bit different, because the Phoenix would rise shortly after.

reply to post by Angiras


Really?, i wonder what you would think if you were alive to witness the complete global privatisation of the British Empire under an entirely corporate entity the East India Company, the apocalypse?!?!?!

Phew, glad things are different.

In all seriousness though, you any idea what kind of a dark age we would be looking at with a global collapse?, thousands of years. Take the Roman Empires technology level, look at there dark age, take our current technological level and OH SHI-

en.wikipedia.org...

Read that, will help you understand cycles, and maybe Asimovs Foundation Series.

reply to post by Johnze


You dont have to educate me about cycles. I published a book last year on the subject, called The Final Event. It reviews and deals with the cyclic view of history, over the course of the last 13,000 years. I thus have a very long term view, and stand by what I said.

There is absolutely no comparison to a national collapse, where there are still other stable forces that exist in the world, and a global collapse, where the entire world is interlinked and shares the same global economy, as we have today. There is nothing in history to compare it to. The ancients predicted this long ago, and they also estimated it would take some 400 years for a new more enlightened system to emerge from the darkness.

reply to post by Johnze


It doesn't work that way. Sorry.

You obviously know little of what happens to countries so heavily in debt. We are beginning to see the cracks. The VIX is continuing to climb, the Euro is losing value, the CDS Market has been flooded with new paper betting against Greece despite a $1 trillion bailout. Gold has hovered around 1200 bucks as the Treasury sell TIPS to offset the damage being done by the Euro in order to prevent a rush to gold from sovereign debt. It's manipulation.

If you think you can prove a lie be my guest.

reply to post by Angiras


Oh right, then you will have read those books then, what with being an author dealing in that particular subject and those books considerd to be pretty much the higher end of sci fi that just so happens to deal with the very same subject of your book!

Can i have a link to your book please?

I think too many people are laboring under the delusion that the USA is teetering on the brink of economic and social disaster when it isn't.

The USA is only "in trouble" compared to itself... Our economy and social order are still miles more sophisticated than the rest of the world. The U.S. economy, on a bad day, is still far, far more stable than Australia, Africa, South America, Asia or the EU.

Heh... If you think the EU economy is "superior" to that of the USA, then we're ALL in trouble, because the EU is already collapsing before our eyes. It was an unstable plan before it was ever implemented.

The USA, on the other hand, could still bail out the rest of the world, in spite of the fact that our socialist administration has done everything in its power to destroy the American economy.

As I said before, a bad day in the USA is still a hundreds times better than a good day anywhere else on Earth.

The only people who would profit from a collapse of the USA would be the socialist cretins intent on globalizing (enslaving) the rest of the world.

— Doc Velocity

reply to post by projectvxn


and you obviously just presume a lot of mad bull# about what people know or dont know there matey!

Theres a reason the Euro is crashing, and thats because of merkels new laws concerning short selling.

I think you completely misunderstood what i meant though. I never for a second doubted there is no manipulation of world markets, it would be common sense to basicaly assume there was with no knowledge of economics what so ever.

What im asking is, how in anyway is this some planet altering economic global crash to send us all to the dark ages exactly? as ive tried to point out, this isnt exactly the first time these things have happend, in fact theyve happend for hundreds of years, but in the past people havnt had the internet to run amok with hearsay and speculation.

It is very easy for you to speculate that the collapse of social order would be "great for business" and all from the comfort of your air-conditioned home built with regulator-approved building materials, by minimum wage-paid (at least) builders, by contractors with licenses, sold to you by a real estate agent with a government-issued license, just up the street (which was built and paved for by the government) from a supermarket employing unionized, minimum-wage-paid workers (who can't be fired for working less than 80 hours a week, thanks to the government), where you can buy FDA-approved foods that must pass safety regulations. You can reach this supermarket in your commerce authority-approved car which 1. must pass certain safety regulations and 2. should it fail you, one of the government's courts can get you restitution (which you certainly couldn't get on your own, given that the car companies are MUCH more heavily-armed than you!).

If your house catches on fire, you can call the government's fire department. If someone tries to break into it and injure you with a prize from a gun show, you can call the government's police department on telephone lines that are maintained by the government and which must meet government safety standards, and they can come protect you in vehicle imported cheaply thanks to government subsidies in a car paid for by your taxes.

You are speculating about this luxury using products that are regulated and protected by the government, built at Chinese factories that are paid for by THEIR government. The only reason that THEIR government isn't YOUR government is because YOUR government uses YOUR taxes to protect YOU.

If you want to see what happens when these cushy government comforts are not in place, look to the following places: Somalia, Haiti after the earthquake, and the movie "Mad Max." These places all depict a libertarian paradise. Ron Paul Revolution, anyone?

[edit on 19-5-2010 by Homoousia316]

reply to post by Johnze


War.

They will take us to war. With each other or with the rest of the world. Which ever does not matter, there will be war, shortages of food and medicine, and extremely high crime.

Not an ideal situation. Economic is about life and death man.

Not allowed to self-promote on this site, so I cannot provide you with a link. I only mentioned my book because you were challenging my position, but you can find it at any major bookseller.

Btw, sci-fi is not the best (or most authoritative) source to learn about cycles of time. This is a subject that is thousands of years old. Virtually all of the ancient cultures held a cyclic view of history, very different than what we have today. And in the final analysis, they may have been correct, because all of nature clearly obeys such cycles. For example, spring always follows winter, day always follows night. In spite of our belief that the human race is above and separate from nature, we are very much a product of and a part of nature.

I believe this also applies to human history, including the history of human civilization and culture. Our current culture is falling apart, partially due to human forces and partially due to other forces beyond our ken. But this is by no means the end. It is just a phase transition, the birth pangs, so to speak, of a new phase of human life. Human society will continue on....but likely in a new and different form from that with which we are familiar. But dont expect to see this tommorrow, or perhaps even in your lifetime.

Nevertheless, for what its worth, i think we have front row seats for what may be the greatest drama that has ever played out in human history. And like most dramas, it will have tragic aspects--even though there may be a silver lining in the end.