Arizona dares L.A. to carry out boycott [Updated]

One of the things that American history has had a great deal of, is cyclical waves of outcry against immigration -- illegal and legal, depending on the cycle, but usually mostly legal, until now.

The issues today are partly the same as they were 100+ years ago. It is problematic when people do not speak the same language and governments at all level need signs, forms and emergency workers who can communicate with the people. I wish I had at hand the $ spent in the state budget of California for foreign language 9/11 operators alone. It would make you gasp. The cost for printing every imaginable form in english and spanish is shocking too and most of that is not even tracked.

(Do you know, if you move to Italy, six months in you have to prove you have rudimentary grasp of the language--or they move you out. At least it used to be that way, not sure if it still is. This is because they considered it impractical if people could not read warning or street signs, talk to emergency operators or public workers, etc.)

It is problematic if there are limited resources or economic constraints and some groups contribute less than others. "Sheer numbers" are always a problem even when otherwise the situation wouldn't be. There have been quite the political hissy fits about this several times through the development of the USA.

Today's world has some additional issues though. 150 years ago when the immigration issue was a big deal, they did not have a government that was anywhere near as socialized as it is today (the founding fathers probably would have just leaped off a bridge in despair if they'd known the future). So issues like paying for schooling, paying for medical care, paying for food, paying for housing, paying for every-damn-thing, paying for prison(!! -- WHY do we pay for prison?? Because our borders are so unsecured if we don't, they'll be back next week. Yet another issue worth mentioning...), was not an issue then the way it is now.

And, short of issues that led to actual borderlands wars, having organized groups of well-armed soldiers from the cartels at issue were not as common today, because they weren't so organized then, drugs were not such $ then, weapons were not so available then, and transportation wasn't as good.

So this "outcry from the citizenry" regarding border security and the flood of people into the country is not new. What IS new, is that previously the cry was actually about legal immigration and limiting the numbers. This time, nobody is even complaining about legal immigration, not at all. They are only complaining about people here illegally.

The irony is that
a) federal laws already exist about this;
b) some state laws already exist about this (see the CA statute posted in the thread above);
c) Mexico's own laws are vastly more strict/harsh than ours are about the subject;
d) the very word "illegal" implies not only that it is wrong but that law enforcement personnel and even ordinary people/businesses are *obliged* to not-support such behavior/actions/circumstance;

and yet now it is somehow a major issue that in self-defense, Arizona wants to enforce existing laws. Arizona sees this as a form of *self defense* on several levels.

To me suggesting they can't/shouldn't do this is as an analogy, like telling some woman she has no right to complain about her husband beating her. "Hey you didn't complain before, so why does it matter now, just because the situation is worse? You're just sexist and hate men." Maybe sometimes people just get tired of being abused, you know. (I probably shouldn't use that example since bizarrely I have known of more women-abused-men than the other way around.)

The situation IS worse and I'm so glad they're doing *something* toward it. Who knows where this will end up, but there are times when something simply comes to a head and the last straw arrives and no amount of talking, wishful thinking or political BS can sweep it under the rug any further.

Everything sets precedent. Until now our precedent has been lazy and lax, it has willingly turned a blind idea to illegals in part because near-slavery was convenient apparently, or perhaps for other reasons I have no way of guessing, but I doubt any of them were truly altruistic on the Federal government's part. But all the side effects of that have exponentially multiplied into a disaster for the states and finally they *must* as a matter of caring for their own citizens safety, their state economy, etc., finally do something about it.

Every time I see someone ranting about how it's all about racism I am time-warped back to the last presidential election. It is entirely possible to be against a behavior or a perspective or a politic without caring about a race. It is also common that some people are recognized by their skin or by their clothing, such as mexican illegal immigrants, and there is no possible way to wave a magic wand around and make that just-not-so. There are zillions of legal and/or birth citizens who happen to be hispanic. Nobody cares about that, nobody I know, anyway.

The only issue is with illegal immigrants, of *any* country--but not surprisingly, to begin with, Mexico is the primary focus for Arizona because that is the only foreign country they border, obviously. Whether Florida and New York and Washington and Michigan want to focus on similar laws will be up to them. Will people still be screaming about racism when it's Canadians and not (mexicans, cubans, asians, etc.) in focus, I wonder?

RC

reply to post by GorehoundLarry


Please explain, in what way this law is a violation of our rights ?





Edit for no other reason than my brain is fried right now

[edit on 5/19/2010 by chise61]

reply to post by sdcigarpig


That's ok. California can live off of all that excess wealth they
have according to this woman:

"Fiorina Suggests California File Bankruptcy: 'This State Can't Pay Its Bills"

tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...


Or maybe not

[edit on 19-5-2010 by manta78]

well I know the country was made by immigrants in the first place but there is such thing as a carrying capacity and we are exceeding ares in many ways. First people were trying to get rid of the American flag because it was offensive to them. I think that says enough but ill keep going what about the fast that you have to have two foren classes to go to collage. Yaaaa I think we are being over populated my illegal and ignorant immigrants. I have seen this on youtube and think yall should watch it

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by prionace glauca


All I have to say is AWESOME!

Stand firm - it only takes one flip of the switch at the Hoover Dam and - wrrrrrrrrr.rrrrr.rrrr.rrrr (bloop) - no power LA

Thank God someone is finally actually doing something seriously and giving these La Raza state employment/social welfare supporters a smack down!

Thank you

reply to post by RedCairo


How dare you bring a sane discussion to this topic

Who knows where this one is headed. I watched Obama's press conference with Mexico's President this morning. Obama seems to still side against Arizona and seems to still be in Race Baiting mode. He was careful in his words but his intent seemed obvious.

As I watched Mexico's President standing there, knowing the slanderous remarks he made about Arizona and the US last week, I could not help but think about Mexico's Immigration Laws.

Illegally entering Mexico is a Felony. 2 years first time. 10 years second time and I think Life the third time. From what I read, often the people crossing the southern Mexican Border illegally are simply shot on sight.

On top of this I watch our President cowing to the Mexican President who had the nerve to criticize Arizona for its policies knowing full well how his government treats Illegals in his country. Obama is not even a man in my book anymore and it scares me I almost voted for him.

Add to that the Mexican government puts out official publications teaching its citizens how to cross our border along with safety tips for them and steam comes from my ears just thinking about it.

This boycott nonsense is childish for sure and our beloved President is encouraging it by putting his people out in front of cameras criticizing Arizona. Holder admitting he has never read the law he is criticizing is so far beyond the most ludicrous thing I've ever seen in politics in my life spanning from JFK and MLK forward, that I can't fathom it. Why was he not fired the next day? Under any other President he would have submitted his resignation the next day.

Why is easy. He is following orders. Obama did not read it either, until the last couple of days apparently, but he also criticized it without knowing what was in it. He should resign also. They don't care what the law says or what the truth is. They only care about how do they keep the stream of people flooding in and how do they make it legal for Illegals to vote FOR THEM. I think its that simple.

One thing is for sure, the Obama Administrations official policy is to encourage racial problems and incite them in fact. He is purposefully trying to turn us against each other. He want us in a state of conflict. He is an evil man. Bush was just misguided and wrong a lot, Obama is evil. He may well be the greatest danger faced by our country in my lifetime. Even more dangerous than the Cold War was. The only thing worse than a Racist is a Race Baiter. Obama and all of his people are Race Baiters. The KKK has nothing on these clowns.

Originally posted by chise61
reply to post by Kurotachi

 

I would suggest that you are the one that should do some historical research. How do you think the Mexicans acquired their land ? BTW the ancestry of Mexicans include Spaniards from Spain which is a European country. The Indians themselves took from other Indians also, killing them and raping their women. These behaviours have been going on since man first came into existance.

Mexicans and anybody else can come and live in this country as long as they do it legally.

That is exactly my though on the subject. Someone finally said the words...

reply to post by PapaKrok


Mexican ancestry has been pointed out several times not only in this thread but every thread on this topic. They simply chose go around that reasoning and blabber on about being natives anyway.

It shouldn't even matter anymore if you were the native. This is the modern times, Pangaea split from one land mass to form the several continents today. Talk about the borders present now and laws on the books that were supposed to be enforced for those current borders.

Edit to Add: I am not rebuking you, but adding onto what you are saying.

[edit on 19-5-2010 by prionace glauca]

Hey lookie here....Mexico seems to have some of it's own entrance requirements:

www.mexonline.com...

www.mexperience.com...

How about these rules for who can visit and stay???
"Foreigners are subject to approval concerning appropriate activities they will pursue, and the location of residence.[article 34] Immigrants must be useful elements for the country and have the income needed for subsistence and persons under their economic dependence.[article 34] Foreigners may be denied entry for the following reasons, if: No international reciprocity, The national demographic balance is altered, It is deemed harmful to the national economic interests, he/she has violated national law or have a poor record abroad, deemed not physically or mentally healthy. For a foreigner to pursue other activities in addition to those that have been expressly authorized, requires permission from the Interior Ministry.[article 37] The authorities of the Republic, whether federal, local or municipal, as well as public notaries, are obliged to check if foreigners are legally in the country.[article 72] The judicial authorities are required to notify the Interior Ministry of defendants of foreign descent who are being prosecuted, and sentencing handed down. [5]. [6] [7]"
en.wikipedia.org...

Maybe we should adopt Mexico's immigration laws???
www.canadafreepress.com...

Nah, that would be truly racist...

reply to post by PapaKrok


Why do people always bring up mexican immigration law. Half a million immigrants flow through mexico from central and south america every year.

That's right their southern border is also porous and despite their "tough" immigration laws they have illegals living in their country.

reply to post by daskakik


Yea but not the same amount ever makes it up to their ultimate goal of reaching the USA, you see its hunting season down there in the land of Corona. Mexican Law Enforcement don't like asking for papers, they let their pistols do the talking.

Originally posted by prionace glauca
reply to post by daskakik

 

Yea but not the same amount ever makes it up to their ultimate goal of reaching the USA, you see its hunting season down there in the land of Corona. Mexican Law Enforcement don't like asking for papers, they let their pistols do the talking.

It's not as bad as they make it out to be. Remember a little cash says a lot in the land of the bribe. Also there are those that are illegal "in mexico".

The numbers don't compare but it isn't as if tougher laws = no illegals.

reply to post by daskakik


Tougher Laws definitely means no Illegals, You should pay attention to the Laws of Iran, China, N. Korea, Venezuela...though those countries are socialists/communists they seem to have it locked-down on their border. I wouldn't recommend for us to be that tough, but Tough Laws result in Very LOW Illegals.

Originally posted by prionace glauca
reply to post by daskakik

 

Tougher Laws definitely means no Illegals, You should pay attention to the Laws of Iran, China, N. Korea, Venezuela...though those countries are socialists/communists they seem to have it locked-down on their border. I wouldn't recommend for us to be that tough, but Tough Laws result in Very LOW Illegals.

But not by adopting mexicos tougher laws.

EDIT- If Mexico was actually better off I bet more central and south americans would stay there rather than go all the way to the US.



[edit on 19-5-2010 by daskakik]

Let me get something straight here... Arizona is now a racist state because they're cracking down on ILLEGAL immigration? To me that is 100% pure crap!!!
The illegals should not be here in the first place because they do not pay taxes and they take jobs that Americans need, especially now with our economy's current state. To boycott Arizona is ridiculous because of many reasons and here's a few:
1. Most of the country has been wanting to crackdown on illegal immigration and now Arizona took the first major step to ward illegals from coming into their state
People say the law is unconstitutional but the constitution only applies to American citizens
2. The thing that started Arizona's true crackdown was when drug-runners illegally came across the border and shot a cop
So people would rather have overpopulation and many other problems instead of looking like a douche
3. All the law states is that an immigrant is required to have their papers with them in public.
A driver's license is considered paper's or any ID card. That's it. White people, Black people, Red people, Purple people, Yellow people, and Green people all have to have an ID if their American. It's not racist, it's a fact that Mexicans illegally come here. They're judging it by where they came from because they're the only ones that sneak over here. If we had a large island off the coast of California full of rainbow colored people sneaking over here we'd crackdown on them too. it has nothing to do with race. Arizona does not care that they're Mexican they care that some Mexicans are illegal and they want to fix that. It's not personal vendetta against Mexicans.

Let me get something straight here... Arizona is now a racist state because they're cracking down on ILLEGAL immigration? To me that is 100% pure crap!!!
The illegals should not be here in the first place because they do not pay taxes and they take jobs that Americans need, especially now with our economy's current state. To boycott Arizona is ridiculous because of many reasons and here's a few:
1. Most of the country has been wanting to crackdown on illegal immigration and now Arizona took the first major step to ward illegals from coming into their state
People say the law is unconstitutional but the constitution only applies to American citizens
2. The thing that started Arizona's true crackdown was when drug-runners illegally came across the border and shot a cop
So people would rather have overpopulation and many other problems instead of looking like a douche
3. All the law states is that an immigrant is required to have their papers with them in public.
A driver's license is considered paper's or any ID card. That's it. White people, Black people, Red people, Purple people, Yellow people, and Green people all have to have an ID if their American. It's not racist, it's a fact that Mexicans illegally come here. They're judging it by where they came from because they're the only ones that sneak over here. If we had a large island off the coast of California full of rainbow colored people sneaking over here we'd crackdown on them too. it has nothing to do with race. Arizona does not care that they're Mexican they care that some Mexicans are illegal and they want to fix that. It's not personal vendetta against Mexicans.

Let me get something straight here... Arizona is now a racist state because they're cracking down on ILLEGAL immigration? To me that is 100% pure crap!!!
The illegals should not be here in the first place because they do not pay taxes and they take jobs that Americans need, especially now with our economy's current state. To boycott Arizona is ridiculous because of many reasons and here's a few:
1. Most of the country has been wanting to crackdown on illegal immigration and now Arizona took the first major step to ward illegals from coming into their state
People say the law is unconstitutional but the constitution only applies to American citizens
2. The thing that started Arizona's true crackdown was when drug-runners illegally came across the border and shot a cop
So people would rather have overpopulation and many other problems instead of looking like a douche
3. All the law states is that an immigrant is required to have their papers with them in public.
A driver's license is considered paper's or any ID card. That's it. White people, Black people, Red people, Purple people, Yellow people, and Green people all have to have an ID if their American. It's not racist, it's a fact that Mexicans illegally come here. They're judging it by where they came from because they're the only ones that sneak over here. If we had a large island off the coast of California full of rainbow colored people sneaking over here we'd crackdown on them too. it has nothing to do with race. Arizona does not care that they're Mexican they care that some Mexicans are illegal and they want to fix that. It's not personal vendetta against Mexicans.

These are all good developments. The more chaos the merrier.

I hope Arizona:

Succeeds from the union and takes possession of all military bases and personnel stationed there,

Sends trained assassins to bully military generals to comply with their wishes or die,

Send B2 stealth bombers to turn L.A. into a giant parking lot,

Surgical strikes on politicians and infrastructure of other states,

Paint an ICBM with fiesta colors, strap a giant sombrero to the side, then send it with our compliments to the center of Mexico.

Raise up an Antichrist figure to set fire to Rome to destroy the entire hierarchy.

All out war here.

Better a harsh truth than sugar coated lies.

It's time to bring this whole thing down.

[edit on 19-5-2010 by ancientfuturist]

Originally posted by arizonascott
reply to post by prionace glauca

 

All I have to say is AWESOME!

Stand firm - it only takes one flip of the switch at the Hoover Dam and - wrrrrrrrrr.rrrrr.rrrr.rrrr (bloop) - no power LA

Thank God someone is finally actually doing something seriously and giving these La Raza state employment/social welfare supporters a smack down!

Thank you

How about the Palo Verde Nuke Plant in Tonopah Arizona run by APS.
They need unexplained maintenance too, RIGHT?

The only people wanting to boycott AZ or say that this new law is bad are the globalist nwo trash that are trying to destroy the Republic from within. We know your games now. We are coming for the RINOs also. All those who attended Bilderberger or CFR meetings or Skull and Bones or ANY other secret society such as the masons must all be voted out of office. Only evil needs to hide itself. Good men do ALL their work in the open. Rebuke all secret societies because if you 're a Christian or even just believe in God then you should know that people of God have no need for secrets. Jesus would never have joined ANY secret society so if you're a true Christian you can't be a Mason or Skull and Bonesmen etc.

This country was founded by Godly men. It's time for Godly men to step up and rebuke all things in our government that are evil and against our Constitution. Let's Restore the Republic to her former glory before the satanic Federal Reserve got her hooks into us. Back then we were the strongest in the world and the most moral nation also. Look at us now. We are now admitting that we are GROWING the opium in Afghanistan! What a sick joke!