Divide and conquer; Illegal Aliens GO HOME; Legal aliens SHUT UP

reply to post by Wolf321


The government facilitates the existence of the illegals. Again, the illegals are merely Capones street thugs. The government is Capone. You aren't going to stop the thugs by acting against the thugs in any measure, especially when the concentrated effort appears to be against the thugs and not Capone.

Originally posted by Wolf321
S&F for you. I agree with you on both accounts, that illegals are a VIRUS in the US, and politicians/government/elite are to blame.

It's funny that you should use the term virus, as describing this in medical terms seems to summarize things nicely. You see, there can be an underlying cause, but you cannot fail to treat both the symptom AND the cause. This is a war on two fronts, one with the illegals and the other the government. Perhaps it is better to have some confronting one and others the rest to focus their efforts, but let us not forget that they are both a problem and we cannot just accept one because the other bears more of the responsibility. If we do try to argue on who is to blame and the other side is wrong/ignorant/liberal/conservative, then we only allow both to continue and divide us further, just as they intend.

The main problem that US citizens have is that they can't choose who to confront, let alone confront both.

The citizens can only ask the government to deal with the immigration issue.
The government has to (or choose not to) deal with the immigration issue.

I've said it before, the US does not belong to "You The People". They divided and conquered you a while back.

reply to post by SpectreDC


You most certainly do stop thugs by acting against thugs. If you apprehend and jail one thug, that's one less thug on the streets affecting the system, and one less thug for Capone to use.

They both need to be engaged. It may not be best for everyone to attack both, but we need groups to attack both separately.

reply to post by daskakik


I hope you are wrong, but I fear you may be right. I like to think there is still a chance for us to regain the nation from illegals, from corrupt government and from foreign influence. If we don't at least believe there is still a chance, then we most assuredly give up and they have won.

I choose to continue the fight.

Originally posted by Wolf321
reply to post by SpectreDC

 

You most certainly do stop thugs by acting against thugs. If you apprehend and jail one thug, that's one less thug on the streets affecting the system, and one less thug for Capone to use.

And the moment that thug is apprehended, two new ones hit the streets. Inevitably all you have done is flooded the system with thugs and wasted money that could have better been used dealing with Capone.

You use the same rationale the drug war uses. When you take out one dealer, another dealer already took his place. You don't kill a weed snipping at the top of the plant. You don't even bother to. You tear the weeds roots out of the ground completely.

Originally posted by SpectreDC
And the moment that thug is apprehended, two new ones hit the streets. Inevitably all you have done is flooded the system with thugs and wasted money that could have better been used dealing with Capone.

If that were the case, law enforcement wouldn't stop criminals because there is always another two to take their place. You cannot operate a society on such a principle. You have to go after both, plain and simple.

I'm not saying jail illegals. I'm saying deport them. The people challenging the government are not spending their money confronting individual illegals. Yes they are spending tax dollars, but those tax dollars cannot be spent going after a corrupt and ineffective government. It's all a matter of time.


[edit on 14-5-2010 by Wolf321]

Originally posted by Wolf321

Originally posted by SpectreDC
And the moment that thug is apprehended, two new ones hit the streets. Inevitably all you have done is flooded the system with thugs and wasted money that could have better been used dealing with Capone.

If that were the case, law enforcement wouldn't stop criminals because there is always another two to take their place. You cannot operate a society on such a principle. You have to go after both, plain and simple.

Except most criminals are not in this case of the organized nature. When dealing with individual criminals you just need to stop those criminals. But when dealing with criminals whose existence is facilitated by a root source, those criminals won't ever disapeer.

I'm not saying jail illegals. I'm saying deport them. The people challenging the government are not spending their money confronting individual illegals. Yes they are spending tax dollars, but those tax dollars cannot be spent going after a corrupt and ineffective government. It's all a matter of time.

You're confusing the analogy. "Money" in the case with Capone would be in our case the focus and effort we put in dealing the problem.

Once again, the government is Capone and the thugs in ANY example are the means the government tyrannizes us. In this specific case, it's the facilitation of illegal immigrants. THEY have the responsibility of the border. THEY are in charge in dealing with the businesses. THEY are supposed to be doing this. Yet they perpetuate it. Thus when you deal with the thugs you aren't going to fix the problem what so ever. Again, you're trying to bail out water from a sinking ship before fixing the leak.

reply to post by Wolf321


I applaud you desire to take a stand but as I said in my previous post who and, more importanly, how are you gonna fight?

Can't fight immigration cause you don't have jurisdiction. Even AZ can't deport only hold and hand over to ICE.

Vote them out? Just means voting in more of the same.

reply to post by ponyboyats


Thanks ponyboy for posting this. Star and flag.

Most people who posted in this thread have pretty much summed up my thoughts. I just hope enough people, as well as the ones falling for the divide and rule, see this thread and really take the time to think about what they're doing.

It's so strange seeing this kind of behavior on a site like ATS whose many members constantly criticize the corrupt powers that be.

Once again, good thread.



[edit on 14-5-2010 by Striker122]

I seem to have developed an aversion to the word "alien". "Aliens" are little grey creatures from deep space.

Can we say "immigrants", please?

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by Wolf321

 

I applaud you desire to take a stand but as I said in my previous post who and, more importanly, how are you gonna fight?

Can't fight immigration cause you don't have jurisdiction. Even AZ can't deport only hold and hand over to ICE.

Vote them out? Just means voting in more of the same.

My great uncle on my mothers side (french/french canadian) was down recently. He can be described as a true libertarian. We were talking about this and while he thinks a violent revolution will never occur, the best sure fire way to deal with the government is to just disregard it.

Don't vote. Don't drive. Don't buy. Don't pay taxes. Don't pump gas.

Think about it. If only 1/3 of America didn't drive their cars for ONE day. Didn't buy gas for ONE day. Didn't pay taxes what so ever....what can the government do? Jail 1/3 of America? Put them in FEMA camps? If that happened, violence is sure to come. No, the government couldn't do anything.

WE ARE THE ECONOMY. And we can collapse it. It may hurt for a while but considering that the ignorant masses facilitated the governments growing tyranny it can't be helped either way. It's either deal with an increasingly horrible government, or collapse said government with our economy.

Originally posted by SpectreDC
Once again, the government is Capone and the thugs in ANY example are the means the government tyrannizes us. In this specific case, it's the facilitation of illegal immigrants. THEY have the responsibility of the border. THEY are in charge in dealing with the businesses. THEY are supposed to be doing this. Yet they perpetuate it. Thus when you deal with the thugs you aren't going to fix the problem what so ever. Again, you're trying to bail out water from a sinking ship before fixing the leak.

Even if you addressed the leak, you have to deal with the fact that your up to your elbows in water. You have to get it out. We have enough people to address the leak and the water.

Originally posted by daskakik
I applaud you desire to take a stand but as I said in my previous post who and, more importanly, how are you gonna fight?
...
Vote them out? Just means voting in more of the same.

We do what we can at all levels of government. It means voting. It means constantly writing those we elect to address the issue, giving them ideas if necessary. It means combating the encroachment of illegals and the cultures they bring, from taking away local culture. It means taking note of businesses who facilitate illegal employment, non-english, and not patronizing those establishments, and letting them know why. If it gets really bad, good, hardcore patriots need to run for office. Even if it means they will most certainly lose, it if takes enough votes away from those who will do nothing, it might help.

Originally posted by SpectreDC
We were talking about this and while he thinks a violent revolution will never occur, the best sure fire way to deal with the government is to just disregard it.

Don't vote. Don't drive. Don't buy. Don't pay taxes. Don't pump gas.
...
It's either deal with an increasingly horrible government, or collapse said government with our economy.

We are being conditioned by political correctness and pacifist to think violent revolution is always out of the question. That mentality will have to chance if there is to be any actual conflict. I pray it doesn't have to come to that, but even our founders were aware that the free nature of our society and government would likely allow for the growth of tyrants and oppressive government, requiring armed revolution.

It might come down to passive revolution, such as you mentioned. I am all for not paying taxes and not feeding the beast, but on an individual level, one has to be prepared to essentially bunker down and support themselves long term, in physical isolation, and defend themselves from the government. I think if there were hundreds of cases around the nation of Ruby Ridge style stand-offs, someone would have to listen.

reply to post by SpectreDC


good stand, good stand.

he's right and thats why we're trying to wake up as many ppl as possible with threads like this. illegals are like mice in a maze, they will only go the way the walls are set up. the govt sets up the walls, u can take mice out of maze and put em back at the beginning of the maze, but they'll just keep going forward the way the walls are set up.

o

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
I seem to have developed an aversion to the word "alien". "Aliens" are little grey creatures from deep space.

Can we say "immigrants", please?

To say immigrants tends to imply they came legally, or should be here in the nation founded by immigrants.

I prefer the term 'illegals.' It is more accurate.

Originally posted by Wolf321


Even if you addressed the leak, you have to deal with the fact that your up to your elbows in water. You have to get it out. We have enough people to address the leak and the water.

But to many are ignoring the leak and only dealing with the water. Furthermore you still don't bail out the water when the leak is brining in more water than we can possibly bail out.

We do what we can at all levels of government. It means voting. It means constantly writing those we elect to address the issue, giving them ideas if necessary. It means combating the encroachment of illegals and the cultures they bring, from taking away local culture. It means taking note of businesses who facilitate illegal employment, non-english, and not patronizing those establishments, and letting them know why. If it gets really bad, good, hardcore patriots need to run for office. Even if it means they will most certainly lose, it if takes enough votes away from those who will do nothing, it might help.

Please, you and me both know the system is what is the problem and not the workers tending to the system. And you should also know the people who want to keep the system will never allow you to fix the problem in the system through using the system itself to fix the system.

We are being conditioned by political correctness and pacifist to think violent revolution is always out of the question. That mentality will have to chance if there is to be any actual conflict. I pray it doesn't have to come to that, but even our founders were aware that the free nature of our society and government would likely allow for the growth of tyrants and oppressive government, requiring armed revolution.

It might come down to passive revolution, such as you mentioned. I am all for not paying taxes and not feeding the beast, but on an individual level, one has to be prepared to essentially bunker down and support themselves long term, in physical isolation, and defend themselves from the government. I think if there were hundreds of cases around the nation of Ruby Ridge style stand-offs, someone would have to listen.

Trust me, I don't think violence shouldn't be used, but it needs to be done after they have taken the first shots.

reply to post by Wolf321


no, not violent revolution. peaceful resistance. voting will not do nothing, they'll just put another puppet face in the race. the good guys never win. the system is rigged. writing to your representatives? people wrote ALOT when healthcare bill was up for vote, did it help? the system is very very corrupt, voting and legal ways dont work anymore, only money works. the corporations pay to make laws to they benefits.

reply to post by projectvxn


the title just represents the division thats going on, im not saying anything with the title but that we are being divided by this issue.

as far as legal/illegal immigration, its off topic, but if there would be no ppl hiring them illegally they WOULDNT BE HERE

im repeating myself.

Originally posted by SpectreDC
But to many are ignoring the leak and only dealing with the water. Furthermore you still don't bail out the water when the leak is brining in more water than we can possibly bail out.

We are not one or two people. We are a nation of millions who see both sides of the problem. They CAN be addressed at the same time by different groups.

Please, you and me both know the system is what is the problem and not the workers tending to the system. And you should also know the people who want to keep the system will never allow you to fix the problem in the system through using the system itself to fix the system.

So you say we need to address the source of the problem, i.e. the government, but that we cannot by using the system. You may be right, but I think you are wrong. One of the most successful military tactics is to use an enemies strengths against them.

Aside from taking down the economy, and destroying all those innocent local businesses not associated with the corruption, what do you suggest?

Trust me, I don't think violence shouldn't be used, but it needs to be done after they have taken the first shots.

If by government taking the first shots: Waco, Ruby Ridge, allowing illegals to murder, rape and destroy uncontested.

Originally posted by ponyboyats
no, not violent revolution. peaceful resistance.

Suggestions?

reply to post by Wolf321


Suggestions? Well one is I agree w crashing the economy idea. Businesses wll be hur yes but that's just a cost of dismantling this corrupt system. Also start local economies. Barter grow own food. Ride horses. Make stuff like chairs etc. Basically teach a man to fish not give him food. Be self sustainable. Move out of big cities populate the country

reply to post by ponyboyats


I am all for being self sustaining. However, government is already trying to regulate this, and thanks to old precedence set regarding the Interstate Commerce Act in Wickard v. Filburn, they can even stop you from growing your own food.

Such acts are highly ineffective in sticking it to the government. Also, not everyone can be self-sufficient. To destroy their economy in a means of impacting the Feds, will do nothing but allow for even greater federal control.