Non Americans You Don't Know Anything...........About OUR Immigration Crisis

this isn't directed towards every non American but a lot

ohmygov.com...

there have been so many threads as of late about the problem of illegal immigration in America, and Ive noticed numerous non American viewpoints on the subject, it is hard for me to see how anyone that is not living in this Country to really have enough information to form a complete opionon, im not trying to offend anyone here just trying to get my point across

Are you from America? If not then I urge you to look at it from my point of view, the economy here is terrible, the illegals take jobs that any jobless American would, no doubt glady take, then take that money back to thier own country, thus making things worse, not to mention the drugs that are being smuggled by the cartel, oh and the fact that a while back they were gonna try to change the official language of this country to Spanish,and they don't even bother to learn English. that's why a lot of us are pissed,

if you still dont see my point, listen to this

there are an estimated 20 million illegal immigrants in the United States today,
with about 33% of them having jobs. that's roughly 6 million jobs that American Citizens could hold, as i stated above this economy here is terrible and lets just say each "alien" makes 8.00 dollars an hour, and works 40 hours a week that is $320 a week per immigrant, if you multiply that by 6 million, that is $192,000,000 a week that is going to people who don't even have the right to work in this country, granted its not entirely their fault as there are thousands of employers here in America who would gladly pay cheaper labor, (my math calculations are all hypothetical, it could be more or less than what i have calculated,

that's just on the money,

now think about all the Drugs, Gangs, and violence being brought in from Mexico, into California, Texas, and Arizona, we have enough problems in America as it is, without the Mexican Cartel, and the Colombian Mafia.

All im saying to you Non Americans is, you don't experience first hand what we are dealing with, maybe you have illegal immigration in your countries, but not to the scale of the United States, so don't tell us how to deal with the Crisis when you cant really see the whole picture,

(this thread is not meant to be derogatory to anyone, just a plea to listen to us here in America, as its affecting us the most)

[edit on 5/14/2010 by l neXus l]

mods if this needs to be moved sorry for putting it in the wrong place

reply to post by l neXus l


they don't care about anything other than what they benefit from. Their jealousy that our ancestors were more able to invent and build things. The world ALL immigrants would love to see is them on top with us as their slaves speaking their language. BUT YET WE deplorable, loathsome, dreaded WHITE MALES will no longer be silenced by the TRUMP/racist card. just because the anglo/viking were the most successful does not mean they did it to later give away did they?? really, we sir see not only a way to STOP THIS, we have many ways WRITTEN IN HISTORY BOOKS about how to regain that which we have lost. How did scandinavia become so nice? do what they did!!!!!

reply to post by l neXus l


We let them in, we provided work for them, what's the problem? Big corporations are paying them dirt cheap. All of this could have been prevented. America decided to send everything to china to be made.. come on. Don't blame the Mexicans, blame your government. Things don't have to made in China. Big companies can make their crap here in the US but they want to pay little chinese kids 10 cents an hour to make your nikes that cost you $200. Welcome to AMERICA... F*** YEAH!

I hear ya. Even people in the northern states here in America don't really get the full effect of the illegals.
I live in TX out in the country, and since the recession, it's not as bad....but a few years ago, wow.
Even the nice little river i live by suddenly had illegals hanging out there all the time. I couldn't let my daughter go down there and swim cause of the drunk mexicans. Their wives would do their laundry in the river, sudsing it up with soap. The men would seine the river and catch almost everything out of it.
Their kids, some that looked as old as 10, would run around naked.
My son and his buddy went down there to see if they could catch a bass before the illegals seined them all out, and my son's bike was stolen in 5 minutes of him leaving it next to the river.
Beer cans, tortillas wrappers, and bean cans were left all over the banks of the river after they left. It took everything i had not to go down there with my cousins and crack some skulls. It was like straight-up mexico 100 yards from my house. You better believe my mini-14s were locked and loaded at all times...especially at nite.
My cousin and i watched our tile-setting wages drop so low that we couldn't afford to do it anymore. We couldn't compete with them as they would do it for a fraction of the cost and get it done 5 times quicker cause there was 10 of them to our 2. They did horrible work though...3rd world craftsmenship in a 1st world country. Eventually alot of the home builders started catching on that it costed more to constantly have to hire a good craftsman to go back and fix their sh!tty work.
Anyway, yeah. If you don't experience what it's like, then STFU.


[edit on 14-5-2010 by Romans 10:9]

reply to post by l neXus l


sorry, one more point with which may also be a hidden agenda as to why EMPLOYERS, WHY? think of all the savings in payroll taxes, liability insurance, etc..SEE... imagine if slave owners didn't even have to feed their slaves!! they could easily tax the free citizens to pay for living expenses while the slave masters reeped all the profits?? BALDERDASH!! a revolt would have happened overnight---by hanging every CEO, manager, EVERYONE!! who participated in it...would they not?

Originally posted by l neXus l
this isn't directed towards every non American but a lot

ohmygov.com...

there have been so many threads as of late about the problem of illegal immigration in America, and Ive noticed numerous non American viewpoints on the subject, it is hard for me to see how anyone that is not living in this Country to really have enough information to form a complete opionon, im not trying to offend anyone here just trying to get my point across

Are you from America? If not then I urge you to look at it from my point of view, the economy here is terrible, the illegals take jobs that any jobless American would, no doubt glady take, then take that money back to thier own country, thus making things worse, not to mention the drugs that are being smuggled by the cartel, oh and the fact that a while back they were gonna try to change the official language of this country to Spanish,and they don't even bother to learn English. that's why a lot of us are pissed,

if you still dont see my point, listen to this

there are an estimated 20 million illegal immigrants in the United States today,
with about 33% of them having jobs. that's roughly 6 million jobs that American Citizens could hold, as i stated above this economy here is terrible and lets just say each "alien" makes 8.00 dollars an hour, and works 40 hours a week that is $320 a week per immigrant, if you multiply that by 6 million, that is $192,000,000 a week that is going to people who don't even have the right to work in this country, granted its not entirely their fault as there are thousands of employers here in America who would gladly pay cheaper labor, (my math calculations are all hypothetical, it could be more or less than what i have calculated,

that's just on the money,

now think about all the Drugs, Gangs, and violence being brought in from Mexico, into California, Texas, and Arizona, we have enough problems in America as it is, without the Mexican Cartel, and the Colombian Mafia.

All im saying to you Non Americans is, you don't experience first hand what we are dealing with, maybe you have illegal immigration in your countries, but not to the scale of the United States, so don't tell us how to deal with the Crisis when you cant really see the whole picture,

(this thread is not meant to be derogatory to anyone, just a plea to listen to us here in America, as its affecting us the most)

[edit on 5/14/2010 by l neXus l]

It's not only the fact that they take jobs, it is the fact that they are willing to do them at below parity wages. This has the effect of destroying the entire wage structure.

The guy willing to do the work at $10 /hr instead of $8, now takes a $10/hr job that should be paying $12; the guy that should be making $12 ends up doing a job that should pay $14, and right on down the line. Only place you don't see it is in Union jobs. Yet most of the Americans who have an issue with immigration also tend to be anti - union. Go figure.

We truly are a country of idiots. There should be no issue with enforcing immigration laws to the strongest degree possible. Where in the hell can any American go where he will not be arrested and /or booted without the proper legal staus?

I have no issue with those that are here legally, although I do think that until our jobs come back we should strictly limit the amount of people that we allow in.

it is hard for me to see how anyone that is not living in this Country to really have enough information to form a complete opionon

We can read, research, and listen to your point of view via online forums and such. This is enough for most people to formulate an opinion.

As for my own opinions, they were formed from living over 25 years in America, as an illegal alien.

I believe that gives me enough information to to form a complete opinion on the issue from the illegals point of view.

reply to post by Merigold


And i respect that opinion you have formed from living in the country, I'm talking more about those who have never lived here

reply to post by sligtlyskeptical

we should strictly limit the amount of people that we allow in.

You already do. You limit the number to those wealthy enough to fund the expensive process of being LEGAL. What most right wing nutters don't tell you is that an anchor baby is NOT an automatic road to citizenship, beleive me I know from personal experience.

Basically, if you're wealthy enough to go through the immigration process LEGALLY then there are loopholes to get in. ( immigration lawyers are bastards).

The legal way is the costly way, ergo out of reach of 99% of Mexicans.

reply to post by l neXus l


Mate I get your point.

However the US is not the only country that has a problem with illegal immigration and semi-legal to illegal workers.

We in Australia actually have more of these per capita that get in around the system than you do. So please don't make out that yours is the only country that has this issue.

You just seem to have people from central america coming to yours so they are singled out easily on this site. This is my only problem with some posters here. That because yours are from the one area they are identifiable, and a lot of people on ATS go off half cocked about anything the group does and blames illegals only. This is where your problems are. These are the posts I have exception with and will every now and then call out. Labeling an entire race illegals is just stupid logic.

Back to the point, imagine living here in Oz. I don't think you would be able to cope. You state that an illegal will earn eight dollars an hour.
Our exchange rates are the roughly the same, most illegals here get between 13-18 an hour.
We have 50,000 students from India alone, almost all of whom work, many above the hours allowed, I know a couple that have started businesses and even offered me a job.
Most of our illegal intake don't have to try hard to be here, they just come by plane for a "holiday" and don't go home.
The majority that do this are from Europe.
My father in law is a semi-legal non citizen but can still receive the same amount of welfare that I would if unemployed and if he does go legit as a non-citizen he gets taxed at a rate that is massive meaning it is in his interest to never work again as he makes the same income whether he works or not.
We have huge populations of semi-legals from southern Europe that are allowed to maintain businesses here and only ever hire off the books partly to keep money out of the taxman's hands, partly so they can employ members of their community that as mentioned come here for a holiday and now need a job off the grid to have an income. New Zealanders can pretty much come and go as they please without having to even wait and see if they are needed or not.

My point saying that yours is the only country that has this problem is a bit selfish in my opinion. Please don't just read this and decide to just give me a whole bunch of buts and ifs. Please read this and understand that the US is not alone with this problem. And please don't tell me we don't know what it is like to have illegal immigration problems. I am not saying the problem is better or worse here I am just replying to your statement that people not from the US have no first hand experience in this matter. We do and because of our comparatively strong social welfare programs they have it a lot better here and the numbers are growing stronger.

So yes I believe that those of us in Australia are plenty capable of giving advice on how to deal with the problem.

Cheers,
Pablo

reply to post by BeastMaster2012


I love your point.

I wish more would take it out on the companies that set up in western countries then abandon the to make craploads more profit while holding back third world countries.

If our governments stopped this practice then both first world, developing and third world countries would be better off.

We need protectionism in small doses, say a law that requires a company to pay workers in China or India the same as they would be paid here. Then if they really wanted to use that labour, the people in those countries would be better off or the products would be cheaper to manufacture here.

In my opinion either is better than this system of exploiting both sides of the world.

Originally posted by rebeldog


they don't care about anything other than what they benefit from. Their jealousy that our ancestors were more able to invent and build things. The world ALL immigrants would love to see is them on top with us as their slaves speaking their language. BUT YET WE deplorable, loathsome, dreaded WHITE MALES will no longer be silenced by the TRUMP/racist card. just because the anglo/viking were the most successful does not mean they did it to later give away did they?? really, we sir see not only a way to STOP THIS, we have many ways WRITTEN IN HISTORY BOOKS about how to regain that which we have lost. How did scandinavia become so nice? do what they did!!!!!

Don't get too proud, you white people stole quite a lot of history and take credit for way too much stuff you didn't invent and do.

The original Anglos and Vikings were not white, neither was Jesus Christ and everyone else in between you people decided to paint white.

The white man is just a hypocrite.

The white mans inventions really did nothing good for the world at all.
Over production, pollution and milking the world for all it's resources is not what the rest of the world thinks a great achievement.

The P.C and Guided Missile were invented by a black man.
Thats your world right there.

Besides the Gun and the Car, white people didn't invent anything good, and the car aint so great for the environment.

White people are the ones responsible for screwing up the Earth.
Thats a fact.

reply to post by l neXus l

there are an estimated 20 million illegal immigrants in the United States today,

Our best estimate is that the illegal population declined 13.7 percent (1.7 million) from a peak of 12.5 million in the summer of 2007 to 10.8 million in the first quarter of 2009.

There is evidence that the number of new illegal immigrants arriving has fallen by about one-third in the last two years compared to earlier in this decade.

There is also evidence that the number of illegal immigrants returning home has more than doubled in the last two years compared to earlier in this decade.

the illegals take jobs that any jobless American would, no doubt glady take,

The number of illegal immigrants in the United States has grown to nearly 12 million, according to a new report by the Pew Hispanic Center. Pew says that illegal immigrants make up nearly five percent of the labor force. About 20 percent of that population works in construction, and four percent is employed in agriculture.

This was 5% prior to the economy collapsing and prior to many illegals returning home. Are they jobs Americans could have? Sure, but many unemployed Americans are more content in receiving unemployment than getting a job that pays them less than their unemployment.

Furthermore, this economy has affected everybody regardless of whether they are Americans or not. In addition, employers make the decision on who they will hire.

I have always wonder why Americans continue to support the businesses that hire illegals rather than boycott. I guess they must really be craving those Mickey D's.

then take that money back to thier own country,

From what I found, the amount sent back to Mexico is 25 Billion. That's quite a lot of money IMO.

However, there is no breakdown where that money is coming from.

Is it coming from illegals or is it possible that legal immigrants and Natural born Americans who are Hispanic are sending money as well? Finally, what about drug money?

Western Union will pay Arizona millions of dollars to end a lawsuit filed against it by the state over wire transfers of money. The money is part of a $94 million settlement covering four states.

In settling the case, Western Union acknowledged that between 2003 and 2007, the company had information that, viewed as a whole, gave it reason to know that people at several of its locations were actively engaged in laundering money, which it acknowledged it has duties under state and federal law to monitor.

azstarnet.com...

Furthermore, if this is such an issue, then why hasn't the government stepped in to do something about it?

There is no law saying people can't send money to other countries.

mention the drugs that are being smuggled by the cartel

Are you willing to admit the role Americans play in the drug smuggling?

Are you willing to admit the role our government plays on this war on drugs?

The war on drugs is benefiting many people, from the cartels all the way to the government.

fact that a while back they were gonna try to change the official language of this country to Spanish,and they don't even bother to learn English.

Who was going to change it?

white 79.96%, black 12.85%, Asian 4.43%, Amerindian and Alaska native 0.97%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.18%, two or more races 1.61% (July 2007 estimate)

about 15.1% of the total US population is Hispanic

Languages

English 82.1%, Spanish 10.7%, other Indo-European 3.8%, Asian and Pacific island 2.7%, other 0.7% (2000 census)
note: Hawaiian is an official language in the state of Hawaii

If Spanish becomes the official language it is because whites want it to be. They are 80% of the population.

Furthermore, English is the overwhelming language in the US.

If you have to press 1 for English, than you might want to take up your issue with the business(American) that set it up that way.

Illegals don't post "Se Habla Espanol" in yellow pages and on business windows.

www.pbs.org...

BTW, I didn't know Hawaii had an official language and it isn't English.

I hear many Americans stating how my counry (England) is turning Islamic, we'll be living under sharia etc...

To be honest, spending time explaining the difference to what is perceived and what is real has given me a deeper insight into my own culture.. simply saying they should comment without the full fact ends what could be a valuable debate.

BTW. Am 1/8 Cherokee and will continue to talk to my American cousins about issues that affect us both.. sometimes when I can not see the wood for trees their comments help.. I hope the same happens in reverse.

reply to post by l neXus l


As a Non-American , I agree with the OP 100%.

It is hard for me to grasp the problem of Illegal's for I have no reference
point. Canada has no such problems, and if there is any Illegal's here, they
are not in such number's to be such a detrament to us.

Twenty Million people, taking money , using services, and not paying
any of their fair share will burden any system on the globe.

I read some of the "illegals" threads, but usually keep my opinion's to
myself, as I truly do not share the grasp of the problem.

To my American mates, may I just say, tread slowly and think hard
about possible solution's.

Originally posted by Merigold
reply to post by sligtlyskeptical

 

we should strictly limit the amount of people that we allow in.

You already do. You limit the number to those wealthy enough to fund the expensive process of being LEGAL. What most right wing nutters don't tell you is that an anchor baby is NOT an automatic road to citizenship, beleive me I know from personal experience.

Basically, if you're wealthy enough to go through the immigration process LEGALLY then there are loopholes to get in. ( immigration lawyers are bastards).

The legal way is the costly way, ergo out of reach of 99% of Mexicans.

I take issue with you throwing out the Right Wing Nutter Statement

Being Right Wing has nothing to do with it. If your so Blind to understand that then you have no business here giving us your point of view.
Your point of view is bias!
What is this: " if you're wealthy enough to go through the immigration process LEGALLY " That is BULL SH*T!

Go to uscis.gov website, any and every form you need is there and has been for years. The amount needed to be paid for each type of visa to the U.S. Gov. and the amount needed to be paid to the U.S. Gov. for your Biometrics.
As of last year the coast was a total of $670, for both your 2 year visa and you biometrics. Paid by Personnel check or money order.
If you hired an immigration lawyer your a FOOL. The forms are available in all languages and a 1-800 help line.
Hell, My wife called from China about a question and my wife asked for a interpreter in Mandarin Chinese to help with two questions on the form.
In 6 minutes they had a interpreter for her. That's in Washington D.C. go-figure that one out!

It can be Done and Done Legally, You just need to try.

reply to post by l neXus l


The problem is that people tend to open their mouths and call you racist rather than do their own research.

Actually since the Free trade agreement with Mexico (NAFTA) the influx of the Mexican to the incredible amount of illegals now in the country increased

The Mexican government urged Mexicans to come to the US for jobs and then return back to Mexico with their earnings.

“We, the United States, brought this calamitous situation on Mexicans and on ourselves when Congress passed the NAFTA treaty in 1993,” Minneapolis Star-Tribune columnist Joseph Moriarity writes. “NAFTA was sold as a magic formula that would improve the American economy while at the same time reducing poverty in Mexico … In practice, NAFTA accomplished exactly the opposite.”

Since NAFTA was signed into law, illegal immigrants in the U.S. have increased to 12 million today from 3.9 million in 1993, accounting for an overall increase of over 300 percent. According to the Pew Hispanic Center, 57 percent of those entering the country illegally are from Mexico.

The same corporate interests that sold the false promises of NAFTA to the American people were just as effective in convincing the powers-that-be in Mexico that NAFTA would be a boon for their country and people. Yet, it has been anything but.

www.economyincrisis.org...

reply to post by l neXus l


I also must add nexus Thankyou for not being so insane about this issue and being upfront and honest, without being disrespectful and arrogant.

Cheers,
Pablo

reply to post by pablos


It's actually worse because of our so called "level playing field".
We import goods from Asia and charge little or no tarrifs yet when we excport to countries such as Malaysia they charge us Aussies huge tarrifs so we cant compete.Cars and Food stuff have tarrifs of 30-50% !!!
Not only do they have lower wages but their Goverments protect the local industries..

Good way to ruin our export industry and encourage imports to wreck what is left of our production.
All we have left to sell is our land by way of mining and even our mining companies are mostly foreign owned so profits go offshore.
It's not confined to the USA, the whole Western World is being sold down the river...