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In a given volume, there is an upper limit to the density of information about the whereabouts of all the particles which compose matter in that volume, suggesting that matter itself cannot be subdivided infinitely many times and there must be an ultimate level of fundamental particles. As the degrees of freedom of a particle are the product of all the degrees of freedom of its sub-particles, were a particle to have infinite subdivisions into lower-level particles, then the degrees of freedom of the original particle must be infinite, violating the maximal limit of entropy density. The holographic principle thus implies that the subdivisions must stop at some level, and that the fundamental particle is a bit (1 or 0) of information.
Let me ask you, did the information to build a TV and to build a car exists 2,000 years ago? If you say yes then you agree with me that information is not bound by space or time.
My answer is no. How can the knowledge of how to build a tv or a car exist 2,000 years prior to that knowledge coming to be?
Sadly, you have done what many people do. You're trying to debate against something that was never said. You said:
First, I never said anything about knowledge. Of course the people back then didn't have the knowledge to build a car. I know why you said this because it makes no sense in this context.
* S: (n) information, info (a message received and understood)
* S: (n) information (knowledge acquired through study or experience or instruction)
* S: (n) information (formal accusation of a crime)
* S: (n) data, information (a collection of facts from which conclusions may be drawn) "statistical data"
* S: (n) information, selective information, entropy ((communication theory) a numerical measure of the uncertainty of an outcome) "the signal contained thousands of bits of information"
Information theory is a branch of applied mathematics and electrical engineering involving the quantification of information. Historically, information theory was developed by Claude E. Shannon to find fundamental limits on signal processing operations such as compressing data and on reliably storing and communicating data.
A key measure of information in the theory is known as entropy, which is usually expressed by the average number of bits needed for storage or communication.
In a paper entitled: “Solid-state quantum memory using the 31P nuclear spin,” published in the October 23, 2008 issue of the journal Nature, an international team of scientists that included researchers with the U.S. Department of Energy’s Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) reported the first relatively long (1.75 segs.) and coherent transfer of a superposition state in an electron spin 'processing' qubit to a nuclear spin 'memory' qubit. This event can be considered the first relatively consistent quantum Data storage, a vital step towards the development of quantum computing.
You've jumped from working on quantum computers to saying, oh, by the way, the universe is a gigantic quantum computer.
When you zap things with light to build quantum computers, you're hacking existing systems. You're hijacking the computation that's already happening in the universe, just like a hacker takes over someone else's computer.
How do you explain Programming to your kids?
I tell them that it says everything in the universe is made of bits. Not chunks of stuff, but chunks of information - ones and zeros.
I've just put on your magic glasses, and looking around I see that, oh my gosh, everything is computing. Is this just fashionable?
Computers are our favorite metaphor at the moment, so maybe we see everything as computers. But this view is not that facile. Statistical mechanics, which underlies all chemistry, grew out of the realization that the world is information. The mathematical definition of a bit was first postulated not during the 1930s and '40s when Claude Shannon and Norbert Weiner started information theory but by James Clerk Maxwell and Ludwig Boltzmann during their 19th-century explorations of the nature of the atom. They were working on thermodynamics, but they discovered that the world was made of information.
I can tell you are just making it up as you go for the sake of argument.
Of course the information existed on how to make a car 2,000 years ago as well as how to make a satellite or build a computer. As well as Information theory Quantum Mechanics and Classical physics. It's just like the information for future technologies exist today. Information is not created when it's discovered.
Have you ever heard of Information Theory?
Are you saying that Relativity didn't exist until Einstein discovered it?
We just reverse engineer the information that's inherent in nature.
Again, this information is inherent in nature. This information is not created when it's discovered.
What about quantum mechanics? Did quantum mechanics exist 2,000 years ago?
Here's M.I.T. Professor Seth Lloyd talking about information.
So whether you study about Einstein, Newton or the Wright Brothers, they just discovered information that was already inherent in nature. When we are able to manipulate matter on a microscopic scale, we will be able to construct a computer out of a pile of junk because of information.
Sadly for you, information is not bound by space and time.
It's really a no brainer unless you're saying information comes into existence when it's discovered.
I have studied time effects ever since I was very young and saw the movie, time machine (the original). Time is never fixed. The future is an innumerable bundle of possibilities. Each person travels through time differently and they are in their own special reality. These realities can and do interact with other realities. So if you have tow people walking down the road together, they are each walking in a completely separate universe yet occupying the same space and time.
Time future is not fixed and the course of time and the universe you choose to exit and enter into is made by the decision you make. If you have the choices of being a cop or a thief, once you make your decision you leave the one reality only to appear instantly in another. This is shown by the fact that electron and sub atomic particles blink in and out of existence all the time.
Time past is also not fixed. If you were to go back into time to say, 1942, you could in fact give the Japanese the designs for making a hydrogen bomb, a power more destructive than the bomb the USA used on them. They could win the war and rule the world. Time would have cause a major decisive shift on a world scale into another future where the one it was on ceases to exist. You yourself would no suddenly disappear because you already left your personal universe when you made the decision to go back in time. In that time you would have simply been a missing person. If you went back no one would know you or if they did they would know why you were so different. If you met another version of you, you would blow up, because neither of you would be from the same universal existence.
Now, if you wanted to visit time past and return to an almost exact future where you left, you would have to not interfere at all in the past where you went. You will never return to you exact place and time, but you could return to a universe very similar to it.
This is why when a time traveler like John Titor comes to town and tells us of the future it doesn't matter because our future, though it could possibly be similar will not be his future. Anything he alters here changes the direction of our future to the point that the interference effected the populations as a whole. Or only in a minor way with a single person.
The sum total is this. Time is never fixed. Anything is possible. Each person has to himself a complete interactive existence with everyone else in complete and separate universes. Only when contact is made between people is the experience shared, to a point. And this existence is spread out over an innumerable amount of universal realities for each person and thing.
And the bridge to cross over to each is found in the Quantum level. Control of the quantum level allows for movement between universes, and through time, at will.
I believe this is the purpose, the real purpose of the LHC at CERN.
All the knowledge that ever was, is now, or could ever be, exists at all times throughout time itself. It is always there in total.
All that exists is *now*, there is no past and there is no future. We can determine rate of decay to figure out how long ago (and by long ago, I mean how many rotations around the sun) something was around, like a burst stick in a neolithic campfire. That neolithic campfire though, doesn't eternally burn, it's gone never to be seen again. There is no future, either fixed or infinite possibility. You can't travel into something that has not occurred yet. It's like trying to cross a canyon thinking a bridge will be there on your first step even though the bridge hasn't been built.
Originally posted by curioustype
reply to post by Matrix Rising
I'm still wondering whether there even is such a thing as past and future, perhaps there's just a very big complex now?