UFOlogy: An Inconvenient Timeline (for TPTB)

reply to post by youdidntseeme
reply to post by Scramjet76

Originally posted by Scramjet76
Some have speculated that UFOs have other-wordly origins and thus our 1st detonation of the A-bomb attracted their curiousity.

And the Air Force was actually the first to speculate.

It was written, originally, in a document for Project Saucer entitled “Report on unidentified aerial and celestial objects” by G. E. Valley, member of the Air Force Scientific Advisory Board.

Later the title was changed to “Some Considerations Affecting the Interpretation of Reports of Unidentified Flying Objects” and republished in February 1949 as Appendix C to the Project Sign technical report. It reads:

Such a civilization might observe that on Earth we now have atomic bombs and are fast developing rockets. In view of the past history of mankind, they should be alarmed. We should, therefore, expect at this time above all to behold such visitations.

Since the acts of mankind most easily observed from a distance are A-bomb explosions we should expect some relation to obtain between the time of A-bomb explosions, the time at which the space ships are seen, and the time required for such ships to arrive from and return to home-base.

I first became exposed to this idea when I read Keyhoe's 1950 classic “The Flying Saucers Are Real.” This passage is referenced on page 135 of the book.

[edit on 31-8-2010 by Spangler]

reply to post by SquirrelNutz


Well this is going to be a long one!

It looks like you have taken a bunch of unrelated and even unsubstantiated events and tried to tie them together with a Ufological narrative.

The Battle of Los Angeles - Later investigations into this came to the conclusion that it was a misidentification of weather balloons combined with national wartime hysteria. This happened only a few months after Pearl Harbor and Americans were going to panic at the sight of anything flying (or floating ) over one of the nation's biggest cities.

At the end of the war, the Japanese stated that they did not send planes over the area at the time of this alert, although submarine-launched aircraft were subsequently used over Seattle. A careful study of the evidence suggests that meteorological balloons—known to have been released over Los Angeles —may well have caused the initial alarm. This theory is supported by the fact that anti-aircraft artillery units were officially criticized for having wasted ammunition on targets which moved too slowly to have been airplanes. After the firing started, careful observation was difficult because of drifting smoke from shell bursts. The acting commander of the anti-aircraft artillery brigade in the area testified that he had first been convinced that he had seen fifteen planes in the air, but had quickly decided that he was seeing smoke. Competent correspondents like Ernie Pyle and Bill Henry witnessed the shooting and wrote that they were never able to make out an airplane.

- Battle of Los Angeles

Operation Paperclip - I've addressed this before (I'll try to find the link) and I'll say it again: We have no evidence that this operation had anything to do with alien technology or UFOs. This operation was real yes, and, yes it was "shady" because our government was forced to ignore the criminal pasts of certain ex-Nazis in order to gain their support. We wanted their knowledge of technology, not their unsupported links to aliens.

Roswell UFO - We have plenty of topics covering this already. The bottom line is that we have no concrete proof that anything other than a balloon of some kind crashed in southeastern New Mexico during the summer of 1947.

National Security Act - This has been addressed before in other topics and in this one as well. There is no evidence at all that this had anything to do with Roswell or aliens. It was the much needed reshuffling and reorganization of the American defense agencies in the post-war era. Before WW2 America was a third-rate military power, after the war we were the military power. The government obviously needed to reorganize to meet the new global challenges of the Cold War. As for the founding of the USAF, it was clear in the nuclear age that the Air Corp could not go on being a part of the Army. It needed it's own separate command and leadership structure.

Majestic 12 - This is likely hoax with so many issues regarding its authenticity that most people in Ufology no longer place much trust in it.

Project Bluebook - Hoax? Nope the real deal! But how does it fit in with the rest of what you are trying to say? I feel like you have thrown in it in here to have at least one credible item.

Washington DC UFO Incident - Like the Battle of LA. A time of national hysteria combined with misidentification and government bumbling of reports and procedures.

reply to post by Turiddu


Wow - a categorically, across the board denial of each and every event.

Be sure to read the entire thread, not just the first post. More has been added.

And...

looks like you have taken a bunch of unrelated...tried to tie them together with a Ufological narrative.

How, so? I just showed that this all happened, remarkably, within a short 10 year span immediately after WW II - A significant shift in technological power and innovation.

... even unsubstantiated events

So, you say. But, that's what 'debunkers' say, so it's our word, and the proof we both know we have, against one another.

Deny, deny, deny, bruther.

[edit on 9/1/2010 by SquirrelNutz]

Blah, wrong thread.

[edit on 1-9-2010 by Gainsayer]

within a short 10 year span immediately after WW II - A significant shift in technological power and innovation.

Well there is your answer. The Second World War was by far the most dramatic and far-reaching event of the 20th century. It literally changed everything about how the world was organized and progressing. The technological advances were incredible and the entire geopolitical scene was changed.

For better or worse, war has been one of the greatest motivators for technological progress in human history. The Second World War was the largest war in human history so its no surprise there was a compete technolgical revolution in the aftermath.

[edit on 1-9-2010 by Turiddu]

[edit on 1-9-2010 by Turiddu]

reply to post by Turiddu

The Second World War was the largest war in human history so its no surprise there was a compete technolgical revolution in the aftermath.

C'mon, man. You can't be that obtuse: Yes, a technological revolution happened in the US after WW II - and completely dissappeared in Germany during the same short period - UFO sightings and interest picks way up (here - already well documented, there, prior) - our technology gets a boost, the likes which had never been seen - additionally, there is an urgent and sudden need for an airforce, security, secrecy, etc...

Connect the dots, man.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Well my angle on this odd coincidence, is that at this time, during the war, there was a fair bit of airbourne recon going on, along with bombing runs on all sides , practice runs and so on, all of which adds up to a hell of a lot more air traffic one way or another.
The equals more oppertunities for someone in a plane, to see some wierd crap, and may have triggered more incursions by UFO. One can only speculate as to WHY that may have triggered such a response, and that speculative element often is attacked as rubbish when voiced... so this will be fun...

Increase in UFO activity may be the result of increased air traffic, and more importantly may, MAY have been a reaction to specificaly the increase in military air traffic by unknown forces, such as aliens, clandestine (and apparantly shelved) airforce units in some kind of anti grav craft, or perhaps the angels of heaven come to see what all the row is about.... take your pick.
Feel free to kick me .

... Aliens .. Are us .. we are Aliens.. . If you meet an alien .. you see A future Human.. or version ..of what man has become...
..Peace .. and Love.. through out space time...

I'll be totally honest, if I hadn’t seen a UFO for myself I would dismiss basically everything on this site as a joke.

But I have and so I mostly lurk hoping to find how this all ties together.

Maybe its all true, the few running the show, life as we live it controlled, the masses beaten down with the hum drum of daily existence to keep us from the nirvana that could be, and a galactic council trying to help us achieve this.

Or its all black ops keeping the technology for there own nefarious purpose.

In a way I wish I had never seen the dam UFO and I could stop looking for the answer.

Anyway good post OP.

reply to post by SquirrelNutz


I must point out that the German economy after the war was WRECKED beyond mortal understanding, something like three million german marks might have bought you a loaf of bread, but the currency was functionaly beyond use for many years, and it took a very long time for things to improve. There just wasnt any money about to pay for big projects. Also , other nations snapped up the geniuses and engineers of merit who could be seperated from thier positions , and shipped them off to create the new technologies of other nations. In actual fact, the disbanding of the Nazi regime spread technologicaly minded folks well away from Europe, and in my opinion its a good thing it did, because those scientists and technicians had they remained could have had far worse fates, and we would have had less advanced technology now than we do.

reply to post by SquirrelNutz


Technology completely "disappeared" in Germany after the war because the country had been bombed to ruin and was being occupied by four foreign powers intent on punishing it and extracting reparations.

All of the major technologies discovered during and immediately after the war have lines of development dating back to the conflict. I don't think you understand how much impact the war had on the world. It was immense, this was a war the likes of which nobody had ever seen before in human history.

My question to you:

What technological development do you believe came about in the post-war period that wasn't somehow directly related to the war? In other words, what do you think the "aliens" or whoever gave us or the Germans?

Originally posted by Rock Steady
I'll be totally honest, if I hadn’t seen a UFO for myself I would dismiss basically everything on this site as a joke. [...] In a way I wish I had never seen the dam UFO and I could stop looking for the answer.

Frustrating, isn't it? I've seen things in the sky I can't identify, but nothing odd enough to make me think it was from some other planet or time or reality. So you have my congratulations and my sympathy.

Originally posted by Vonour
... Aliens .. Are us .. we are Aliens.. . If you meet an alien .. you see A future Human.. or version ..of what man has become...
..Peace .. and Love.. through out space time...

You know what's funny about your post? It got me thinking - I'm currently working on another thread - lots of data collecting, tho - showing how far we've come, cosmically, and showing that our acceleration of knowledge is basically culminating to a head in some universal self-awareness period. Wait, that sounded crazy - hear me out ...

So, For many thousands of years, humanity, with a few notable exceptions, did not recognize the existence of the Solar System. People believed the Earth to be stationary at the center of the universe.

It wasn't until a mere 400 years ago, that someone first openly suggested that the sun, and not the earth, was the center of our system.

We don't even discover Pluto until the 1930s.

The Hubble telescope goes up in the 90s (only TWENTY Years ago), and we see further away and back in time and more objects than we ever had before. We start to get a clearer picture about the origins of it all. Not just planets and our solar system but ALL of it. Right down to the last nano-second - this is where physics breaks down for the Big Bang Theory (or Collision Theory if you've been keeping up).


NOW, in the last TWO YEARS, up goes Kepler and up goes the Vatican:
1) Kepler Telescope is finding 'Earthlike' planets all over the place, even though the sample size is equatable to an 8oz. glass of water in the oceans of our earth.

2) the Vatican makes the startling proclamation - for the first time in its 2,000 year history, the catholic church acknowledged the possibility that intelligent life could exist on other planets, and that a belief in extraterrestrials does not necessarily contradict a belief in God - and have since jumped in the search with telescope purchases of their own (Excuse me? nice 180)

I'm telling you man, if you could graph our knowledge about the universe and ourselves over time, you would get a parabolic curve accelerating into the sky whose asymptote (you math nerds, I am one) is right about now! (2012, anyone?) (obviously there will be more links, dates, references, etc)




[edit on 9/1/2010 by SquirrelNutz]

Speaking of the Vatican, you may find it interesting that - directly from Vatican Film Library informational pamphlet: From July 2007, the library has been temporarily closed to the public for rebuilding, which is expected to be completed by September 2010.

So, it's been closed for 3 years and still isn't open - how incredibly convenient, for the world's largest and most complete archives of human history be off limits at such a critical time...

[edit on 9/1/2010 by SquirrelNutz]

reply to post by SquirrelNutz


thanks for those details...

also check re the following.....

- 1st Fighter Wing - 1947
- 28th Bomb Wing - 1947
- 2d Bomb Wing - 1947
- 301st Air Refueling Wing - 1947
- 307th Strategic Wing - 1947
- 31st Fighter Wing - 1947
- 33d Fighter Wing - 1947
- 43d Airlift Wing - 1947
- 49th Armored Division (United States) - 1947
- 4th Fighter Wing - 1947
- 56th Fighter Wing - 1947
- 7th Bomb Wing - 1947
- 82d Training Wing - 1947
- 92d Air Refueling Wing - 1947
- 93d Air Ground Operations Wing - 1947
- 97th Air Mobility Wing - 1947
- 98th Range Wing - 1947

- Canadian Special Air Service Company - 1947

link

reply to post by mcrom901


Something interesting about your link.

All of your 'units' were established in 1947. What's missing? Germay.

But, go back to 1944...

9th Volksgrenadier Division (Germany)
18th Volksgrenadier Division (Germany)
36th Volksgrenadier Division (Germany)
45th Volksgrenadier Division (Germany)
47th Volksgrenadier Division (Germany)
61st Volksgrenadier Division (Germany)
62nd Volksgrenadier Division (Germany)
78th Volksgrenadier Division (Germany)
79th Volksgrenadier Division (Germany)
91st Infantry Division (Germany)

I don't exactly know what point you are trying to put across but understand many of those German Divisions were a last ditch propaganda effort to convince the German people that the war was still winnable.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Turiddu


I was merely showing that the new German divisions stopped just before the end of the war after he showed that American divisions picked way up.

Just a notable coincidence. Not really saying much, and I don't hold this bullet point as much evidence to help prove my theory.

Something ELSE to add to that timeline: Bilderberg Group created in 1954

Looks like Chaos has summed up my thoughts in his thread, Ancient Anomalies and Aliens - Part 1: Art.

First I want to make clear that this thread isn't just about ancient anomalies, but anomalies that support the ancient alien theory. I've reached a personal conclusion that Aliens were here long ago, and these visitations were misinterpreted as Gods coming from the heavens.

Now that we have a better grip on science, and we understand this Universe a bit better, it's possible to look back at what our ancestors have left for us, and re-analyze things, to question what mainstream history would have us believe. This isn't a wondrous and fantastical concept, this is science. You can only come to grips with what all the evidence is ultimately suggesting, if you look into it with an unbiased attitude.

People don't want to admit they could be wrong. It isn't even a matter of question. A lot of people are saying a disclosure event is getting close...just ask yourself, how many people in this day and age would still consider them to be the Gods which promised to return in so many beliefs? How many would welcome them as Alien visitors, or reject them? And what happens when they tell us about our true origins?

Check it out - I eagerly await the next installment(s)