athiests! why christianity?

Originally posted by catwhoknows
reply to post by sirnex

 

Jesus is only and always about love, foregiveness, and enjoying your life.

I think God is judgemental.

As in...we go to Hell, or we go to Heaven.

I think we go where we belong.

Hypothetically, if God is truly real then a belief such as yours will surely bound you to hell. Your breaking Gods commandments by worshiping Jesus over him and by taking Jesus as your God instead of God as your God.

Jesus was teaching us how we needed to get back on track of God's plan for us, not to worship Jesus himself as God or to take God's name in such vain as you are doing. If you truly believe all these thing's, then be careful where you tread. Jesus is not God as only God can be God and if God exists and is judgmental, then your beliefs will be ill judged by God and heaven will not be your reward for ill spoken beliefs against God's power.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by eight bits

 

It would be convenient for your religion if everybody else's religion was a failed attempt at inventing science.

What religion? I'm an agnostic atheist, hence why I am in this thread.

....sorry a what? an agnostic athiest??? ive herd it all.


a·the·ism

–noun
1.
the doctrine or belief that there is no god.
2.
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.



ag·nos·tic
 
–noun
1.
a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as god, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
2.
a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.
–adjective
3.
of or pertaining to agnostics or agnosticism.
4.
asserting the uncertainty of all claims to knowledge.


they contradict eachother. so you are an agnostic. not an athiest

reply to post by sirnex

Ok Sir, It's kind of tough with this venue. Perhaps if you just answer OP's question with a little more conviction in it. Like say, why do evolutionists or atheists always come off as if they have all the answers. How can some one claim God dosn't exist and expect to be taken seriously. There is no way any one can know that God does not exist. I don't know if this is even going to be on topic.

Jesus was teaching us how we needed to get back on track of God's plan for us, not to worship Jesus himself as God or to take God's name in such vain as you are doing. If you truly believe all these thing's, then be careful where you tread. Jesus is not God as only God can be God and if God exists and is judgmental, then your beliefs will be ill judged by God and heaven will not be your reward for ill spoken beliefs against God's power

See now, one could absolutly sight this as picking on the Christian belief.
But is that what you intended? I'm not sure considering the fact that you
have gone this route before.

[edit on 10-5-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by faceoff85

 

In the end they were the ones who took gods name out of the bible. consequentially they are responsible for the fact that in our time we just simply dont know how gods name is supossed to be pronounced.

I could have sworn God told Moses his name was YHWH...

yeah but the original hebrew name YHWH is present in the bible over 7000 times.. while most translators have chosen to occasionally use YHWH but mostly use a title like LORD instead of a name.

[edit on 10-5-2010 by faceoff85]

Originally posted by randyvs
How can some one claim God dosn't exist and expect to be taken seriously. There is no way any one can know that God does not exist.

While that may be true, a claim that there is a god(s) requires some sort of objective evidence to support it. Without that standard we would live in a world where any claim no matter how absurd would have to be taken seriously. An atheist claiming there is no god because of a lack of evidence can be taken much more seriously than someone claiming there is one and providing no evidence.

reply to post by randyvs

Perhaps if you just answer OP's question with a little more conviction in it.

I thought my reply towards the OP was rather decent. What about my reply to the OP did you not like?

Like say, why do evolutionists or atheists always come off as if they have all the answers.

Well, that was not the OP's intended question, was it? For sake of argument, I don't know a single Atheist nor evolutionist who believes they have all the answers. In fact, science forbids us from having all the answers as science is an ever changing base of knowledge. The answers we believe to know today may very well change tomorrow, this is one of the greatest things about discovery and science, our beliefs are never stagnant like religion.

How can some one claim God dosn't exist and expect to be taken seriously.

In retrospect, how can one exclaim belief in invisible naked sky daddies and be taken seriously? Are people really that simple minded that they need to fight amongst themselves over who's naked sky daddy is better then who's?

There is no way any one can know that God does not exist.

Which God? Your particular God of choice or Scientology? Which invisible entity is more valid? Do we claim Scientology a real valid belief and it's message of how thing's came to be are true and valid or do we rightfully point out it's recent status and how it was invented by man?

If we can show one religious belief as being a concoction of man's imagination, then is it really any stretch that all are possibly in question in descending order. In such case, Judaic-Christianity would be close to next on such a list of questionable beliefs.

While that may be true, a claim that there is a god(s) requires some sort of objective evidence to support it. Without that standard we would live in a world where any claim no matter how absurd would have to be taken seriously. An atheist claiming there is no god because of a lack of evidence can be taken much more seriously than someone claiming there is one and providing no evidence

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


That only sounds like it's true.
How about this. No one needs proof that God exists. The Bible dosn't even
recognise the debate. Because it is so obvious there is no excuse for denying it. No one needs proof that there is a God.

Sirnex

Which God?

Certainly not the naked sky daddy you intend. to insult with. You see this is where I really just want to show you how gutless you really are.
With insults to your maker.

If you can carry on with out the insults that I find offensive then please by all means if not well then I think you know.

[edit on 10-5-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by faceoff85


So the name was given, but you just dislike how 'most' biblical translators substitute the name with lord instead?

reply to post by randyvs


*sigh* If your going to resort to evading the issues raised whilst insulting, then there is no point in attempting to carry out a civil discussion with you. If you would like to reply to the points I raised, then by all means please do so. If you wish to evade as you usually do, then don't bother replying as I don't wish to deal with your infantile trolling.

*sigh* If your going to resort to evading the issues raised whilst insulting, then there is no point in attempting to carry out a civil discussion with you. If you would like to reply to the points I raised, then by all means please do so. If you wish to evade as you usually do, then don't bother replying as I don't wish to deal with your infantile trolling.

reply to post by sirnex


Ok I apologise then.

There's really nothing we can offer each other so you can have your chidish little meaningless last word that you worship. Instead. I'll stick around for the laugh.

You have likely heard that it is impossible to prove that God exists. You have heard wrong. Not only can the existence of God be proven, denying the proof undermines rational thought. It is true that God does not need anyone, let alone me, to prove His existence.The existence of God is so obvious that we are without excuse for denying it. No one needs proof that God exists

[edit on 10-5-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by randyvs

That only sounds like it's true.
How about this. No one needs proof that God exists. The Bible dosn't even
recognise the debate. Because it is so obvious there is no excuse for denying it. No one needs proof that there is a God.

"Because it's obvious" is in no way convincing. The bible is full of claims that have been proven to be false, for example, that demons cause disease. Since it contains false claims it brings into question all of its claims, including whether there is indeed any god(s). This requires objective, tangible proof of the claim.

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by faceoff85

 

So the name was given, but you just dislike how 'most' biblical translators substitute the name with lord instead?

Deuteronomy 4:2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you.

We are not supossed to change ANYTHING written in the bible lest we change its message. This would ESPECIALLY aplie to gods name... anyone changing anything in the bible is simply commiting a sin. the same goes for the word CROSS. Jesus never died on a cross...

Originally posted by faceoff85


Deuteronomy 4:2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you.

We are not supossed to change ANYTHING written in the bible lest we change its message. This would ESPECIALLY aplie to gods name... anyone changing anything in the bible is simply commiting a sin. the same goes for the word CROSS. Jesus never died on a cross...

I suppose the same would also apply to Jesus' birth. I have never heard Jesus didn't die on the cross though, can you explain more please?

Originally posted by faceoff85

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
Chritianity... true Chritianity teaches humility, forgiveness, the meek shall inherit the earth, turn the other cheek, celebrate when you are smitten or cursed in the name of the Lord.... for your treasure is in Heaven.

I can wholeheartedly agree with this text however....... I feel that christianity as we know it in our history can hardly be described by the above text... its true that true christians would be prosecuted by the world but the bashing that christianity receives nowadays doesn't stem from your above description. instead it is a result of what has been sown. for one you can hardly call the pope "meek" or showing "humility". Arogance would be a better description. I dont recall Jesus receiving the attention the pope receives. In my opinion appointing a pope is pure unadultered blasphemy. also the recent media-hype about all the little kids being molested by so-called holy men can hardly be called good advertisement for god. "For you shall recognize god's true followers by the seeds they produce" meaning true followers will stand out because they will "spread the love" and whatnot

bytheway you mention the they'd rejoice in the name of the LORD. doesn't it strike you as odd that most christian faiths stopped using the name of the lord? How can christians even begin to think they can worship The true God without using his name? it would be like calling out for your child in a classroom by naming him CHILD. try it and see how many kids turn their head. doens't JHWH also acknowledge the existence of other deity's/gods?


Illuminator that post of yours just made me LOL

[edit on 8-5-2010 by faceoff85]

I would say you are not far from the Kingdom of God yourself.

Somehow I see you as wanting to be a child of God.

The soul of man is different from the flesh of man. Two opposing each other. What happened? How did this happen?

A very detailed description would be the best answer. So here goes for your sake I hope you can visualize and assimilate the fondness of God Himself.

First, I myself became a Protestant, for many years, but found the lack of true Christian ways in the church I was 'baptized' in. So I left. I found that reading the Bible and seeing it first hand in others, was not to be found. I later after much hardships in life, and trying to figure out what life is about, came to a friend who has been living somewhat successful life at least better than mine. I would say that yes I made bad choices, mistakes, errors. I learned this, Atheistic Parents raise Atheist children. Dead to life parents raise dead to life children. Great parents raise great children and good Christain parents raise good Christian children. There are all kinds of rationalism inbetween we can use as cannon fodder, but one big question still remains after all. Who is God?

The next question is why can't we physically see God? (If God is real).
I don't buy that we were evolved from amebas, a biological evolution, I don't buy that we evolved from 'monkey's' as this lowers man to an animal and a babbling one that cannot talk, I don't buy that we came from outerspace from some rock and hatched. There are a number of I don't buys. This lowers man's intelligence to that of a blatant idiot.

This will be long because I spent 40 + years asking the same questions.

I was born to atheistic parents. I lived according to 'no law' I do as I please and I did not know the difference between good and evil, good and bad. Everything was one. Life to me was about testing and trying. This works, this doesn't, some things need to be reinvented. Improved.

When I became a Christian I was but a damaged teen. My parents were on their own a family but not. We just existed. What a lousy feeling day after day. No joy. No love. No hope. Just existing. My dad went to work in the Pentagon,

Originally posted by faceoff85

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by faceoff85

 

So the name was given, but you just dislike how 'most' biblical translators substitute the name with lord instead?

Deuteronomy 4:2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you.

We are not supossed to change ANYTHING written in the bible lest we change its message. This would ESPECIALLY aplie to gods name... anyone changing anything in the bible is simply commiting a sin. the same goes for the word CROSS. Jesus never died on a cross...

Change anything? Oh wow, you do realize the good book has probably been changed more than any other over it's illustrious career, don't you? I remember as a kid the King James was supposedly chock full of spurious verses, then I met a guy who claimed it was the literal only version directly from god himself, as god always works through a king. Plus he said English was the universal language of our dispensation, so yeah, they can't all be right if you go in for that "don't change anything" line. What do you think? I sometimes feel like I've gone to a place so advanced that coming back and seeing these debates is like a college professor debating pre-schoolers. Of course the kids will always win, cause they just repeat "no it isn't, yes it is, no it isn't, yes it is."

The reason I go after Christianity more than other religions, is the same reason that most Christians take that faith: In my country it's the most popular religion, and it was taught at school.

I've read the bible a few times, some while under duress at school, and again since then.

I know a fair bit about the nuances in interpretations, the history, and so on.

So I am in a reasonable position to attack Christianity.

It would be unfair for me to attack the other religions so strongly, as I don't know enough about them.

reply to post by faceoff85


I don't call my son "child", I call him "boy"
That usually means Mama's getting serious.
I am a Christian but I prefer to say I'm "a believer". Im not "religous" as in I don't have to go through the same ritual/s day after day.....after day in order to show respect or to get my heart focused or to get God's attention.

Yes, God still listens to you, He smiles all the while waiting for you to get to the point, even though He already knows what you want or need.

IMO, God does not force himself onto you, he is there for you if you ask, it is up to you what and who you choose to believe.
Another "my opinion" He prefers us not to defend him if our sword is dull, speaking about him with a dull sword will only make him look like a fool to the eyes of the curious. He probably prefers us to keep quite or sharpen our sword first.
So I better stop talking. Anyway, Tarzan is calling me.

Only the child/boy part of this post was a reply to faceoff85, the rest was Mama babbling on as she does when she is tired.

[edit on 10-5-2010 by sweetliberty]

[edit on 10-5-2010 by sweetliberty]

How about we stop jerking around and admit what your real belief is?

No evidence. All ad hom and bluster. And now you call me untruthful, because you can't back up your tall tales.

We're done here, sirnex.

Titen-Sxull

What religion? I'm an agnostic atheist

That's two religions.

Another poster has already commented on the self-contradictory character of your phrase. I prefer to accept people's choice of words for their personal beliefs. However, you can't complain if people don't know what you're talking about when one thing you say is incompatible with the other.

I read a book of Norse mythology that was prefaced with exactly the sort of statements I have been making, that the Norse used religion as a way of explaining natural phenomenon they couldn't grasp scientifically.

Well, if that's evidence, then I read from a book yesterday that said Jesus was a real person.

As I said T-S, you can pitch woo until the cows come home, and it's all the same to me. As long as it's prefaced with "It is my personal opinion that..."

Nobody will mistake that phrase to mean you're the only one who thinks so. Everybody will understand that it simply means that you are not claiming to know something you don't, and couldn't possibly, know.

Originally posted by eight bits

What religion? I'm an agnostic atheist

That's two religions.

Actually, that's zero religions, because an atheist/agnostic doesn't believe and have faith in something, therefore it's not a religion, it's a lack of religion.

(Unless they are one of those hardcore atheists who says there is no god, that's a belief too, as it can't be proven)

[edit on 10/5/2010 by harpsounds]

my mother was either home after school or not. didn't really matter I was off to my own thing.

When I became a Christian according to the 'idea' floating around, I was handed a Bible after requesting one. I read as much as I could, mind you I never in my life read more than a few words of a book because I hated school. I read, with dire intent. I changed internally to accommodate this desire to read the Bible. I read the New Testament. I read St Johns Gospel and Matthew more times than I could remember. The more I read, the more I understood bits at a time. But never to what I know today. Which is another long story, but if you can bear it.

To cut this short, I coming from Atheistic family, today I am a Roman Catholic. I spend two hours a day praying the Rosary three times. And other prayers, I have a forum for a religious book that the church leaders castigate, and I say, to those atheists, it is better to mock than sit and be idle, for you because, you come one step closer to the True God Who wants you to understand Him and not man.

God created man to be His sons. Not rebels and dissidents or scornful. Imagine your father, when he hears you bashing him. That's what its like to God, whenever any man bashes a Christinan because he she belongs to this image, you bash God directly. The more you bash , mock God the more He stomps on you with a gentle touch in some cases. St. Pauls conversion. He was dragging Christians out of homes and places to have them arrested and killed. Years later the Temple was destroyed. This is what happens when you come against God. Your system becomes wasteland. In our case this world will be smitten to ashes in many areas while in several areas there will be residue of struggle. This next war is not a world war as persay in the past, it will be a slaughter house. Read Matthew 24 with clarity. Not your human senses but your soul.

I was on the end of bashing Christians after I became one, but denounced it due to the lack of true Christians. I thought God had left the earth. This of course is false. If God has forsaken man, man would not exist. That's the bottomline. You have life because God wills it. He grants time to come to know Him, that time is while you are still in the flesh. And after this life is over you end up before God in the pre-judgment. Then in the Final Judgment wherein all mankind will be judged to be sent to the places they merited while on earth. It's how you choose to live. If good then you do not merit eternal damnation. If evil then you get that portion with Satan and his band of black angels. If lukewarm, then well you get spewed. Today the world is apostate, lukewarmness. The whole world. Not just certain priests or certain sects. The whole. That's why I felt the way I did, earlier. Who is living it? Not they. Too busy with gaining hand fulls of material waste that has no value in Heaven. Heaven is not about greed, wealth, and power. It is about Love. Charity. How one loves during his life on earth. The world is not love. It is hate and vengence and greed. Thus conspiarcy galore. But they are not conspiracy's. They are just sick mad people that want all this material gain to control the world. That's it. Leave them to their maniac desires walk away and pay no attention to them. The more you heed them the more you belong to them. How does one heed to them? By listening to them. This is a cold war. They are stirring people up. When they get to your inners, then you have heeded their cause. How does Eve become fallen? By listening first. The intrigued. She then eats the evil fruit and loses Grace. Falls to just above a beast. She was an earthly angel. She wanted power the power she lusted after was knowledge and understanding. To be a God.

That's what power does, it is seen and then it influences the wrong stimulants in man. That's is why we do not see God today, physically.