Lets DEBUNK this once and for all... CHEM-TRAILS

Originally posted by KILL_DOGG

Originally posted by Goethe

Really? Like not being able to find a reason for autism, or mass cancer?


Not be worried? I like to breathe fresh air... Not crap from engines.

Exhaust, no matter what alt, will NOT turn into what I am seeing.

You assume that I claim the air is clean...I would never make such a bold statement. We as a people have polluted this planet to the point that I'm not sure it will ever recover. But trying to explain autism and cancer with phantom chemicals sprayed by jet liners is just too far out in left field for me.

And I know what you're seeing, I see it here in the skies in Louisville, KY all the time, but I still have seen nothing to make be think that those are anything except normal contrails.

[edit on 7-5-2010 by KILL_DOGG]

All I meant meant by the autism and cancer comment was that, we collectively, no jack crap...

These we see, and theres plenty of evidence to support my claims, yet you still dont have any to share?

Anyone with ANYTHING STATING ANY OF THIS IS A HOAX?


Im still waiting for anything really... Something...


Maybe something other than closed minded opinions...

reply to post by Goethe


I'll bite! But not as a debunker, but as a believer

I really stay out of these threads because the usual suspects will be in here shortly to derail the thread.

I am a former military man who has not only grown up around an Air Force base with heavy air traffic above his head his whole life, but has also been in out of them quite a bit.

To say there are no such thing as chemtrails is insulting to say the least.

Anyways, down here in Tampa, FL....chemtrails are rampant. So much so, that on really bad days I'll try to capture them on my cell phone. Here are some recent good ones.

Great images!

I too served, as did both parents. With what they did in the service, and what theyve told me, and what Ive seen personally, I have little doubt as to if this is going on or not.

Im just curious as to where all the debunkers with there evidence are at...


I figured it would be alot of great info debunking this 'hoax' one and for all...

reply to post by Goethe

Doubt they are in the areas where its being sprayed. Who knows.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3f240a34ae98.jpg[/atsimg]

Chemtrails are very real. But can easily be confused with regular clouds left by normal air traffic. You may find some of the answers you seek in the following...

Chemtrails: US Patent #5003186: Stratospheric Welsbach Seeding For Reduction Of Global Warming

Chemtrails Are "Small Reflecting Particles" In The Upper Atmosphere.

Council on Foreign Relations on Planetary Geoengineering: “Add more small reflecting particles in the upper part of the atmosphere”

ATS News 04: US Defense Contractor Owns Chemtrail Patent!

Originally posted by Goethe

Im just curious as to where all the debunkers with there evidence are at...


I figured it would be alot of great info debunking this 'hoax' one and for all...

As has been noted - this subject has been beat to death. If you would read the threads I provided you would see the plethora of information given to "debunk" this. I would guess those on the Contrail side are sick of debating this [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/895364ae4851.gif[/atsimg]

After awhile reguritating the same information over and over and over and over on the latest thread about this - just gets old.

[edit on May 7th 2010 by greeneyedleo]

reply to post by Chadwickus


You are falsely assuming that the purpose of these Chemtrails is to drop a chemical agent or substance onto the population.

It could be.

But it could have a myriad of other purposes. Such as introducing a cloud layer to modify and control the albedo of the Earth and therefore also influencing weather patterns.

To rule out the possible conspiracy of an unknown purpose with a supposed known purpose is down right ignorant.

I remember the first time I saw a chemtrail. It was 1997 and I was living in central Florida. Standing out in the front yard one day, an airplane was passing over head, leaving a long white tail that did not dissipate. I thought for sure the plane was on fire or something. I called for my mom to come outside (I was in highschool) and take a look. She was also a little worried, "Maybe it's a sky writer plane with a malfunction." I remember her saying. Needless to say the plane did not crash and there was nothing on the news about it so I sort of lost interest. So, when it happened again (and again), I really didn't pay attention. I won't claim to know what chemtrails are, but I'm certain they are not contrails or something left behind by a normal aircraft.

[edit on 5/7/2010 by Gumshoe]

reply to post by greeneyedleo


I agree.... However from the other side of things.

I am dont show up in the Chemtrail threads as much anymore because I am sick and tired of beating a dead horse [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/895364ae4851.gif[/atsimg]trying to show that Chemtrails cannot be disproved by the common methods that the frequent chemtrail debunkers have to offer.

All they have to offer is false assumptions, red-herrings, and other common disinfo tactics. Please check my research and my theories about the chemtrail conspiracy in my above post which links my threads and come back with something new.

The common arguments are that: they would not spray themselves with this chemical is false because.... you are assuming they are trying to spray us with chemicals when the real purpose of this suspicious activity is far from know.

The common argument that anything sprayed at that altitude would not be a logical place to disperse a chemical is again a false assumption that assumes they are trying to spray us.

The chemtrail conspiracy is a difficult one because many people hear of chemtrails go out and take photos of normal aircraft contrails and post them as chemtrails which are then quickly debunked and therefore RETARD the actual research into this conspiracy by diminishing its credibility.

Again I ask anyone with doubts about the chemtrail conspiracy to read my threads and for the love of god TRY to debunk my logic.

Many have tried... non have come close.

The truth about this WILL be exposed in time.

[edit on (5/7/10) by AllSeeingI]

Originally posted by greeneyedleo

Originally posted by Goethe

Im just curious as to where all the debunkers with there evidence are at...


I figured it would be alot of great info debunking this 'hoax' one and for all...

As has been noted - this subject has been beat to death. If you would read the threads I provided you would see the plethora of information given to "debunk" this. I would guess those on the Contrail side are sick of debating this [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/895364ae4851.gif[/atsimg]

After awhile reguritating the same information over and over and over and over on the latest thread about this - just gets old.

[edit on May 7th 2010 by greeneyedleo]

Then why even bother opening this thread? Ive visited the links you provided, and they dont really cut it and end the debate. They may for you, but you are not everyone.

I can say the same thing about a number of subjects, but I dont see mods in there telling the op the stuff some get here in skunkworks.


I dont get why its such a no no to talk about this here.

If the mods would like to end all chemtrail talk, so be it... But you write off everyone else in this thread that obviously are interested in this issue...

Sorry, double post.

[edit on 7-5-2010 by Goethe]

Originally posted by 12GaugePermissionSlip
Hi, new to this subject and I have some quick questions.
2. Why would the thousands of people involved do something like this to the air that they and their families and friends breathe?
a. Does that mean that there are thousands of mass murderers in professional positions colluding together undetected?
b. Do the all secretly walk around with breathing apparatuses on?

reply to post by 12GaugePermissionSlip



First off I'm a skeptic in regards to chem-trails. I have seen no convincing evidence either way. However i do know for a fact that chem-trail like operations have been carried out by our government/military. Hence why i do not dismiss the plausibility/possibility of chem-trails being real.

I think you bring up good points in your first and third questions and as of right now i have no answer for it, so i will adress your second one.

Basically the way pilots, mechanics and other people would not have come out and said "hey the government is doing this and i helped" is because they simply are unaware of the true purpose for their actions. It's called compartmentalization of intelligence.The basis for compartmentalization is the idea that if fewer people know the details of a mission or task then the risk that such information could be compromised or fall into the hands of the opposition is decreased.

The US military tells you that you are going to do a run over an area where you will spray chemicals/materials for the purpose of scientific research all the while assuring you that it is not for *insert conspiracy reason here* . They could say it is for the purpose of doing climate change research, signal smoke technologies or any other type of research that would involve the dispersion of various airborne materials. The mechanics who are working on the aircraft have no clue what it is going to be used for, their job is to fix the aircraft not to ask questions why.

After awhile reguritating the same information over and over and over and over on the latest thread about this - just gets old.

Just like some do with links to articles claiming to debunk this issue, yet do not...


Its a two way street, yet Im not the one trying to end the debate...

Originally posted by DeathShield

Originally posted by 12GaugePermissionSlip
Hi, new to this subject and I have some quick questions.
2. Why would the thousands of people involved do something like this to the air that they and their families and friends breathe?
a. Does that mean that there are thousands of mass murderers in professional positions colluding together undetected?
b. Do the all secretly walk around with breathing apparatuses on?

reply to post by 12GaugePermissionSlip

 

First off I'm a skeptic in regards to chem-trails. I have seen no convincing evidence either way. However i do know for a fact that chem-trail like operations have been carried out by our government/military. Hence why i do not dismiss the plausibility/possibility of chem-trails being real.

I think you bring up good points in your first and third questions and as of right now i have no answer for it, so i will adress your second one.

Basically the way pilots, mechanics and other people would not have come out and said "hey the government is doing this and i helped" is because they simply are unaware of the true purpose for their actions. It's called compartmentalization of intelligence.The basis for compartmentalization is the idea that if fewer people know the details of a mission or task then the risk that such information could be compromised or fall into the hands of the opposition is decreased.

The US military tells you that you are going to do a run over an area where you will spray chemicals/materials for the purpose of scientific research all the while assuring you that it is not for *insert conspiracy reason here* . They could say it is for the purpose of doing climate change research, signal smoke technologies or any other type of research that would involve the dispersion of various airborne materials. The mechanics who are working on the aircraft have no clue what it is going to be used for, their job is to fix the aircraft not to ask questions why.

It's called compartmentalization?..... Thats what I said. Thats how they do it in the service and govt. Keep the need to know info to the ones that need to know.

Because I do not have air samples, or photos, or a signed confession by the perpetrators DOES NOT end the debate.

If I witnessed a murder yet did not have photos, or blood samples, or a signed confession DOES NOT mean I did not witness a murder.

Crop dusters and fire-fighting aircraft are a completely different sort. They operate within 1,000 ft of the ground and are completely irrelevant to this debate. I expect even a lay-person to be able to identify the difference between crop dusting, firefighting, and high flying airliners producing contrails or Chemtrails as easily as we can tell the difference between a Cardinal and an Eagle (Size, shape, color, and most importantly: behavior).

When I saw the Chemtrail activity with my own eyes I KNEW it was suspicious because of the behavior of the aircraft(s) and the behavior of the clouds.

Let me explain my eye-witness account:
I was out of town for the weekend at a friend's cabin. In the north USA. I am reluctant to give out to much personal details due to my paranoia and ATS rules.

Anyways... I was outdoors all day on a Saturday on the lake. I was in observance of the same sky all day from 9am to sundown.

The morning began crystal clear. It was a hot mid-summer day about 2 years ago. When we headed out for morning fishing and lunch on the pontoon boat I remember seeing the occasional airliner cruising on by leaving no trails. Around 10am a white four-engine aircraft (I believe to have been a KC-135) at cruising altitude leaving a thick white billowing cloud behind it.

Now with regards to my visual acuity and perception. I have perfect vision and during college was a member of the competitive aviation team, one event is called ACID: Aircraft Identification.

Back to the eye-witness account: I saw this aircraft fly from sky's edge to sky's edge carving a single cloud into the sky. Withing a few minutes a second IDENTICAL aircraft about 5 miles parallel to the original entered and flew a direct parallel to the first trail. Both aircraft were present in the same sky for a few minutes.

As I watched closely I witnessed a suspiciously large cloud being put out DIRECTLY behind the aircraft. It appeared to be trailing from many points along the aircraft wing INCLUDING the wing tips.

I watched the clouds themselves closely as I became increasingly suspicious. The cloud did not appear to behave like a normal cloud. It seemed to spread and expand with unusually strong intent.

The clouds hung in the sky without moving much. But they did spread. They grew thick and seemed to increase with depth and size overtime without the slightest amount of dissipation.

Around 11am I witnessed a similar, or the same, aircraft enter the sky from the opposite direction 180 degrees from where the first trails were initiated. This aircraft flew another parallel to the first two lines. Creating three thick parallel lines in the sky with not another single cloud in the sky.

A few minutes later another similar aircraft proceeded along side the 3rd trail creating a total of 4 parallel trails in the sky by around 12pm.

During this period I witnessed a number of other aircraft in the sky at various altitudes. Including airliners of similar altitude to the spray aircraft leaving NO TRAILS. The other aircraft which I witnessed varied from small 2 engine commercial airliners to the occasional larger 4-engine types at cruising altitudes.

This spraying behavior continued through the afternoon until by 4pm there were 10 parallel trails laid out across the sky as if in a search pattern or lawn-mowing pattern. The trails increased in size as the day went on. The first clouds spread out and by 4 pm the original trails were unnoticeable. What remained was and evenly dispersed haze the blanketed the sky.

The last time I saw the aircraft was around 3 or 4pm. By around 6pm all but the last made trails had spread out completely creating a FULL SKY BLANKET of haze. Still no other clouds or contrails were created this day from any other aircraft and various altitudes.

Were it not for this pattern of parallel trails the sky would have been clear and blue all day and into the evening.

Now before the obvious questions arise I will address them.

Q. Why did I not take video or photos of this?
A. This event which I describe was my awakening to the Chemtrail question. As the event unfolded above me I did not begin to pay close attention until about the 3 or 4th waves of aircraft. I saw the whole thing unfold above me. But was not seriously suspicious until late in the day. At which point I did seek a camera but there was none on the boat. (I didnt head out that day hunting for Chemtrails.) By the time I got back to the cabin it was 5pm and the clouds were entirely a haze but the last two and the aircraft were gone. The photos would have been meaningless.

Q. That is a convenient story about having no camera.
A. Considering that now I realize how important this day was to awakening me to the suspicious activity I am remorseful to say the least that a camera was not on hand. I believe a daylong time lapse video of this event would be shocking to most people. Like Andrew Dufrense said in Shawshank Redemption when asked to provide proof of his story "I find it decidedly INCONVENIENT that I cannot".

I have seen plenty of regular contrails. In fact I suspect that about 99% of the trails left by aircraft seen are normal contrails put out by regular everyday airliners. These clouds mimic car exhaust. More visible the colder it gets. Also how fast they dissipate depends on the temperature.

A normal contrail will dissipate with some degree over time. They may spread but they will dissipate in intensity to some degree.

More than this though I propose that the BEHAVIOR of the clouds and the aircraft is more usable proof of some artificial cloud forming activity. Patterns of similar aircraft creating cloud patterns which would be logical if ones intent was to FILL THE SKY with a haze.

This debate is constantly derailed and overgeneralized by the uninformed who take photos of regular contrails and post them as proof of Chemtrails. Often these attempts are easily debunked by the avid debunker.

These debunkings serve the purpose of generalizing that the ENTIRE Chemtrail question is debunked. When, of course, this is an ignorant over generalization.

I am hoping this thread will encourage others TO HELP ME continue to search for the truth about these activities. To say ANYONE can prove that a secret program DOES NOT exist is preposterous. This thread is about a search for truth. If this patent turns out to not be attached to the actual suspicious activity; it will not close the debate or prove to me that Chemtrails do not exist.

Regarding the fierce attempts to debunk and/or discredit the Chemtrail question:

I easily understand how a meteorologist, scientist, skeptic, or whatever could think this is all just a mass delusion of ignorant science know-nothings... when they themselves have never seen the SPRAYING BEHAVIOR which I described for themselves.

I do not fault them in their attempts. They seem as zealous and fanatical to me as I must seem to them. Had I not witnessed this behavior myself, I never would have been awakened simply by photos from the internet or others claims.

I say that I have only seen the suspicious activity for myself just twice. The other time was after the first. So I knew right off what they were. The same aircraft making parallel lines similar to the activity of my original witness event. I was driving cross-country and saw the activity for an hour or so. Again no camera.

I believe the relative few times I have seen them are explained by the fact that unless you witness the same sky for an extended period of time, you will not get the entire picture of a days sky activities. I think back on how few times I have been out under the sky for an entire day undistracted and they number very few unfortunately.

I also believe this activity is in a TEST PHASE. They are most likely just TRYING IT out and conducting experiments now and then to test the results.

One common accusation is that this program would require SO MUCH PAYLOAD and SO MANY AIRCRAFT. True. Put that assumes they are using those materials. Is it not possible that the technology exists for a more exotic material which is designed to spread and form a cloud lay more efficiently?

Also if they are just testing it out... they would only need a few aircraft and crew. This would explain away this false choice of: "Either it is a massive program or it does not exist"

reply to post by Goethe


Gah! i should have read this thread more thoroughly.

More images, from the same location in Jersey...

I guess when we provide evidence, its still not enough for some...

























I can go on for days...


I know... Those are normal... Right...



I know what I see, I know what I read, and I know what I believe.

If some dont believe fine... But why bother to post here?

Keep you mind closed and move on thank you very much.

Still waiting some decent stuff debunking this... Nothing has even come close yet.

Heres some more interesting reading...


Maybe still not enough of a crediable source though for some...
Test Technology Symposium ‘97