Female posters incapable of original thought?

Originally posted by Wobbly Anomaly

Originally posted by aboveandbeyond


This is why real attitude towards a subject/person often transpires on forums like this where people can operate with virtual impunity rather than facing real-life reactions. It is also staggering how easy it is for people to use their own preconceptions whenever it suits them while conveniently ignoring the problem when it does not.

Totally agree, it is on forums that people are more able to be more truthful (and to some extents 'themselves') free from recriminations or finger pointing that they may get in real life.

It can be quite saddening at times, but that is the way of the world, we tend to keep our mouths shut when we think it will adversely effect our social status amongst our real life peers. (more so than our virtual life that is)

Yes, it all boils down to perception. The same photograph can be interpreted in an infinite number of ways - and the way people interpret this photograph reflect not someone else's point of view - but their own. They are revealing who they are without even discerning this is so.

Originally posted by Janky Red
Anyhow, I didn't mention earlier, my bias is actually that the female members are GENERALLY some of the best when it comes to substance. The fellows
probably use this gender tactic because they cannot engage you in a pissing contest
which is the most common way and sure fire to divert the course of a losing argument here.

I agree with this. It's frustrating as you write up a well thought out and reasoned argument only to have it shot down as irrelevent because it was written by someone who didn't have a penis. The logic.. well there is none. The male and female brains, while having some minor differences are not that different in overall intellectual capacity.

Originally posted by Jenna

There are differences yes, but that doesn't mean that one gender is naturally less intelligent than the other or less capable of intelligent thought.

And one of those differences could be (on average) the ability of original thought. I dont think there is an exact 50/50 split, IMO either males or females, on average, are capable of more original thought than the other.

I understand that you are not going for the girl power vote, but taking this thread as an example then the swingometer points a little more towards un-original. (not that you'd want to judge on one thread alone, just using the most 'to hand' example)

Originally posted by Janky Red
In fact, now that I think of it, the gender slight is likely a substitute for the age old male water sport. I think it can be some what empowering to understand this during debate as it might not be apparent, because girls don't see the necessity to whiz on things when they feel threatened

I need a new keyboard now because you forgot to put a "Do not read while drinking anything" warning label on your post. And you're right, I've never felt the urge to whiz on anything when I felt threatened.

Originally posted by Wobbly Anomaly

Originally posted by Jenna

There are differences yes, but that doesn't mean that one gender is naturally less intelligent than the other or less capable of intelligent thought.

And one of those differences could be (on average) the ability of original thought. I dont think there is an exact 50/50 split, IMO either males or females, on average, are capable of more original thought than the other.

I understand that you are not going for the girl power vote, but taking this thread as an example then the swingometer points a little more towards un-original. (not that you'd want to judge on one thread alone, just using the most 'to hand' example)

In my opinion, threads which evoke both substance and people's strong opinions are the most valuable ones.

reply to post by Jenna


When I first read the title of the thread, even before clicking the link (of which I did hesitate) my first thought was "dude, you just stepped in it with both feet." I was actually relieved to see that it was you, Jenna, that started it.

Now the question of to what exactly the above paragraph means is dependent on the reader's point of view. Some would say that I was relieved that a female started it. Some would say that I figuratively just patted you on the head (or bottom for some) and said There, there now girl."

Actually what I meant was that I really am glad that it was you, specifically. You write well , speak your mind and sometimes don't sugarcoat (certainly not to please others).

As to why some guys do this, well age and upbringing have quite a bit to do with it as well as personal experiences. Some guys can not handle women in positions of power (supervisor at work) or socializing with women formally (female coworkers during break). But here on ATS they have to do both between Mods and Members. Not all the male posters that do this are young (though most are).

Funny thing about gender and the internet is unless the name or avatar strongly suggest female, then usually the writing does not give the information to many that hold women in low regard. How many times have you seen people mistake BH or Byrd as male? It happens quite often.

As for the 16 year old drama queen commentary....most ATS females do not act that way actually. Sure, a few do. And there are/have been some members that played their membership as a persona and not as the person they are. And some of them play that persona exceptionally well and are quite entertaining especially with their consistency (Major Discrepancy being among one of my favorites--although I am pretty sure he is a male poster).

Then there are a few females that are thought of as being flirty or whatever and are not that way at all, intentionally but some will perceive them as such. (see the flap over the title of Conspiracy Chicks for better insight to that misunderstanding).

I'd like to say a person's experience is what they make of it. But that, unfortunately, is not true at all. There are those that use the amenity to be jerks (and some, I suspect, truly are asshats in real life).

But as much as I would like to say it, it really is an issue that can not be ignored and really is not a comfortable position to be in. While my best advice will sound hollow with the old "hit the alert button", I hope you can take some solstice in knowing that not every male member is not like that, in fact I would say that the numbers are smaller than what it seems. But it doesn't make it any less offensive when it does happen.

Originally posted by aboveandbeyond


In my opinion, threads which evoke both substance and people's strong opinions are the most valuable ones.

And that can be either the intention of the OP to manifest that sort of debate or the ability of the replies on the thread to squeeze some value out of what can often be an 'old' subject.

Originally posted by LordBucket
"Wandering uterus" theory. This relevant wiki article might amuse you: Female hysteria.

Yep, that was what I was thinking of. My memory was close at least. I'd never seen that particular wiki page though... Wow..

Originally posted by Ahabstar
Actually what I meant was that I really am glad that it was you, specifically. You write well , speak your mind and sometimes don't sugarcoat (certainly not to please others).

Thank you! And I'm glad you were relieved to see it was me. Much better than the alternative.

As to why some guys do this, well age and upbringing have quite a bit to do with it as well as personal experiences. Some guys can not handle women in positions of power (supervisor at work) or socializing with women formally (female coworkers during break). But here on ATS they have to do both between Mods and Members. Not all the male posters that do this are young (though most are).

Offline, from what I've seen at any rate, it's usually older generations who can't seem to wrap their heads around a female being as intelligent and capable as they are. (Especially in a hardware or auto parts store, but since that's generally considered "man territory" I'll excuse it and not bore people with my irritations from there.) I don't know if it's the way things are written, or the maturity level shown, but here it seems to come more from younger generations.

How many times have you seen people mistake BH or Byrd as male? It happens quite often.

I've been called a male before, sometimes even after pointing out their mistake. How many males called 'Jenna' have you ever heard of? Though I suppose if you squint really hard and tilt your head to the left it kinda looks like Jim..

But as much as I would like to say it, it really is an issue that can not be ignored and really is not a comfortable position to be in. While my best advice will sound hollow with the old "hit the alert button", I hope you can take some solstice in knowing that not every male member is not like that, in fact I would say that the numbers are smaller than what it seems. But it doesn't make it any less offensive when it does happen.

The vast majority aren't like that. It's probably 1% or less that actually do make those comments. But you're right, it doesn't make it less offensive (or irritating) when it happens.

Well ladies I honestly think that we should not allow ourselves to be offended by such ignorant and sexist comments.

Regardless of what gender you are, if you communicate your thoughts and opinions in a well thought out manner then what you post should speak for itself.

Those who try and discredit someone solely on gender will always lose in the end.

reply to post by riley

The male and female brains, while having some minor differences are not that different in overall intellectual capacity.

Complete nonsense, check out this educational video dear lady there are huge differences. The biggest problem for women has been the invention of gadgets like the knitting machine, which gives them far too much time so their brains become idle and they feel the need to hang out at ATS instead of sorting out next seasons sweaters.

reply to post by Jenna


Well on the age thing, you also have people like me, 39, Gen X, victim of the Battle of the Sexes...


We can and do express ourselves in positive/negative/neutral lights at will. Sometimes angry and sometimes just indifferent. We get accused of being too effeminate, too macho and sometimes just too self-absorbed (see also indifferent). We often try to be too respectful in relationships and that is perceived wrongly at every turn of the screw. So Gen X members are the proverbial box of chocolates, never know what you are going to get.

Have I said anything out of line personally? Maybe, probably not, but that perception thing can be a real pain in the butt. And sometimes what would be seen one way is taken completely different because some other guy was being a jerk.

Ultimately I shrug....must be the indifference.

Originally posted by Jenna


Offline, from what I've seen at any rate, it's usually older generations who can't seem to wrap their heads around a female being as intelligent and capable as they are. (Especially in a hardware or auto parts store..............

Especially in a hardware or autoparts store ? Seriously ? This is one of the ways you compare intelligence. Heck, i dont know many 'intelligent' men who get jobs in those places, those jobs are mainly for.............no, i'll not get into that.

Abstract problem solving, that i think would be a good comparison.

Originally posted by Wobbly Anomaly
Especially in a hardware or autoparts store ? Seriously ? This is one of the ways you compare intelligence. Heck, i dont know many 'intelligent' men who get jobs in those places, those jobs are mainly for.............no, i'll not get into that.

Abstract problem solving, that i think would be a good comparison.

I wasn't referencing the people working in those places, I was referencing the helpful older men who don't think I know the difference between nut and a bolt, can't fathom me knowing how to change my own oil, and look like they might have a heart attack when I tell them I know exactly what a pipe wrench is for and since I'm replacing the drain in my bathroom sink I'm quite certain I need it and not a crescent wrench.

You'll also note that I wasn't comparing intelligence levels, I was relating where I tend to notice more men who can't comprehend that a woman can be as intelligent and capable as they are out in the real world and away from the computer. Nowhere in that did I state or imply that those helpful older men were more or less intelligent than myself. It was fully my intention to imply that their "helpfulness" borders on irritating, though, so I hope that came through ok.

reply to post by Jenna

I was referencing the helpful older men who don't think I know the difference between nut and a bolt,
can't fathom me knowing how to change my own oil,

All I can say to this is....get over it.

They grew up in a generation where women weren't taught those things. Them having difficulty believing you can know about these things is no different than them being uncomfortable with computers because they didn't exist when they were born.

While you're at if you may as well get offended at the next guy who opens a door for you. After all, he's implying that you're weak and need his help, right?

If you look hard enough for reasons to feel offended, you'll find them.


[edit on 7-5-2010 by LordBucket]

Originally posted by Gumshoe
That being said, did you catch the new episode of Real Housewives of New Jersey?

Nope, never watched it. Why, was it a good episode?

reply to post by Jenna


I just don't understand why women care about such things. Why would a Woman care if a guy thinks she is as smart as he is.

Intelligence and ability speak for themselves.

These old men you speak of came from a time when they did all that work. To them it's not a surprise that you are capable, they are probably surprised that you don't have a man that will do it for you.

Women often forget that Men really don't have much to offer other than safety and changing your oil in your car.

If we can't do that for you we are nothing but a penis for you.

We are not equal because we are the same, we are equal because we both need each other. If you eliminate that need all there is is sexual attraction.

reply to post by Jenna


When I saw the title of the thread on the front page, I thought to myself "oh dear, this fellow is about to get his gonads ripped off by some scornful female posters!"

I think you are overeating. Yes, there are a handful of bad apples that will purposely make sexist remarks to stir the pot. But come on, do you really think people think you are unable to think because of your gender? There are obvious topics where the average man will be more knowledgeable than the average women, and there are areas where the average women will be more knowledgeable than the average man. We are different in many ways, but that doesn't mean we can't get along.

It is pretty easy to spot those who can and those who cannot think critically using their own minds to formulate ideas and make arguments. Also be mindful that those who are against Feminism are NOT necessarily against women or women's rights. I am somebody that is strongly in opposition to Radical Feminism, but I still value and appreciate input from women and still respect them as human beings.

[edit on 7/5/2010 by Dark Ghost]

reply to post by LordBucket


I'm a very chauvinist kind of man actually. I believe in chivalry and being a gentleman to women. I have been scolded many times by women for opening the door for them.

It's very odd being a man who wants to provide for a woman living in a world full of women who want to prove they do not need to be provided for.

I find myself an outdated useless model of a man that has no purpose.

I try to make women understand that I see them as a sexual object and they get offended by it. What else am I meant to see them as? A dude?

I want to make a life with a woman not a man. If I want to see a woman as a person rather than a sexy woman I could do that with a sock puppet.

I just don't get it really.

Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by riley

 

I've been called that a few times for pretty much the same reason. Doesn't make any sense to me and usually just causes me to roll my eyes.

I think you're about to be called it again.

Many men share the same opinions as I do yet they do not get accused of being femnazis.. their opinions are accepted as being their own rather than that of a political group.

That is one of the things I was talking about in the OP. I just don't understand it. It makes no sense.

The "but you're a woman/feminist" reply is like an emergency flair from a sinking ship.