Female posters incapable of original thought?

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
(Thanks, friend! -- didn't know you were here, you could come help the womens ya know).

You're welcome ... but I'm afraid I can't provide any help for none is really needed nor would I presume to offer it on that basis, for that would be truly patronizing on my behalf.

I have been reading this thread from the beginning and it breaks my heart ... much like the "conspiracy chicks" thread did but for different reasons.

As I said in an earlier thread, hate and bigotry follow the path of least resistance. Most of the time it isn't about the target itself, it is usually about the bigot and the nearest and most convenient target who just happens to be there ... be it a woman or anyone else.

Male/female dynamics are loaded with generalizations, preconceptions, bad personal experiences, mothers, sisters, societal pressures and dogma, and as a result are highly charged with fear, uncertainty, and highly susceptible to people lashing out.

I have no answer to any of this, I don't think there is one, and like everything else it comes down to how you treat the people that cross your path and one's mirror.

As far as ATS, this disposition sooner or later hits all demographics, be they women, sexual preference, race, religion, they are all targets of the ignorant. If it is over the line it gets actioned, if it isn't ... well, if it isn't the only effective response is indifference and not taking things personally.

In RL we choose the folks who we surround ourselves with whereas on ATS our thoughts and words are available to all, including those with whom we may never choose to associate with in RL. Therein lies the beauty and the challenge of such a community, to expect otherwise is setting one's self up for disappointment. Thus paradoxically to be hurt by another's ignorance is to a degree one's own fault ... not because one did anything wrong but simply because one chose to resist the inevitable.

But words hurt, sometimes a great deal, and indifference is a lonely endeavor. But there is a lesson in that I think, perhaps the greatest lesson ATS has taught me personally ... no matter how hurtful another's expression is, it isn't actually personal to me, to allow it to become so is elective on my part and unnecessary.

It's all good ... in the end.

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
I know you meant it to be light-hearted. My comments weren't directed to you so much as to the speaker on the vid.

I invite you to learn more about the source of your ire. This man has enriched the lives of many people. (self included) You may be surprised at how utterly mistaken you were about him.

www.laughyourway.com...

While I am sorry you were "almost literally traumatized" in another thread. This man is not your enemy. Sorry, but I service what I sell and wouldn't want him perceived in an unfavorable light lacking full knowledge of his altruistic intent.


♥ you back.



[edit on 8-5-2010 by kinda kurious]

reply to post by kinda kurious


Okay, gotcha. I'll go take a look.

ETA @ Sdoggie

You know you are right. I've seen every group imaginable criticized on these boards. Now it's me and mine. It sucks, but I shall suck it up. I guess maybe we are all a target in one way or another.

[edit on 5/8/2010 by ladyinwaiting]

Originally posted by Aeons
I hate that men are from mars women are from venus guy. He makes me want to kick him in the head.

Until both sexes realise there are differences in the biological, physiological and psychological processes of the opposite, we will continue to argue. Both sexes deserve the same rights and freedoms and most importantly respect from the opposite sex. Neither sex should use a weakness in the opposite sex to manipulate the other to achieve their own goals.

Ssiiiigggghhhh.

As I've told many women I've known:

Don't say men demean you, belittle you, or don't take you seriously.

Say Christian men, white men, European, whatever. I'm a man and I take offense at blanket charges against all men when it really comes down to culture, especially Abrahamaic cultures, and try to remember I'm not one of them.

I'm Apache.

We are matrilineal, not patrilineal. Waaay different attitudes.

I was raised by/with strong women. I expect women to be intelligent, strong, capable, articulate, and courageous. Mostly I'm disappointed. That's why I've taught my granddaughter to be those things.

Because I treat women as different but equal, I offer respect, but don't cut much slack for femininity's sake. If a woman say something stupid and asinine, I'll point it out the same as I would a man. I wouldn't be picking on women, I'd be picking on a woman who happened to say something stupid. Again, not because she happened to be female, but because she happened to be stupid and asinine.

If I ever make a bad argument such as you outlined, point it out to me and I'll apologize and rephrase it to more clearly support whatever point I'm making without sexism.

However, I will observe that women can't seem to get the hang of TV clickers for some reason: they actually watch commercials!!

[edit on 9-5-2010 by apacheman]

reply to post by LadySkadi


Dear LadySkadi

Well unfortunately men do not start life as men, they start life as little boys. As such in my experience they at this age will watch just about anything.

Now personally I really do wonder why all Americans are not up in arms about this sort of program being exported as I hope it dose give a very poor view of American life but then again I have never been there so I do not know.

So if you do not want to be seen in this sort of life I suggest that you take it up with those who manufacture the programs.

reply to post by whitewave


Dear whitewave

Hum yes it would be nice to think so but apparently the figures say no. men are more likely to sit behind a computer screen or so I have heard it said on some documentary or other.

Once a pone a time I was in the position of being single. Sometime ago now at the age of about 45 or so. I saw in the local rag a singles night advertised on a Sunday. Interesting I thought. So I got dressed up and when along, I even did it on two separate occasions just to make sure the first time was not just an off evening. Needless to say I did not do it a third time.

With the current state of society to meet a woman is not easy.

reply to post by Jenna


On a site like this your sex matters not. I could have checked the female box when I made an account(if there is one can't remember) and made a name that sounded like I was a female.

That is the great thing about forums, you can state your opinion without any of that nonsense. Personally I never really look to see if it is male or female, black or white, christian or Thor Thunder-god, son of Oden follower posting.

I just read it....

It does bother me that we are going down this road in these forums. There is enough of this type of thing without it spilling over into my internet world.

I will say this, since the subject has been breached. I believe that females have this sense of "we must assert ourselves more and be bold and heard" attitude in general when it comes to life and take it to the extreme in most cases.

I know my wife is constantly worried about keeping control of everything to the point of where it has an effect on our relationship. Just chill out a little is all I am saying.

As long as dudes have our beer, video games and sex, we are happy! Simple creatures that really could care less... You are making it into something more than it truly is.

Because honestly, most of the time, guys just don't care. And I think that's what irritates the females the most...

reply to post by Dark Ghost


on the other hand, just about anything could be considered a form of manipulation, which would most exaggeratedly include natural body parts, natural voice inflection, walk, and so on. whatdya wanna bet, this all goes back to when we were provided the means to reproduce (hebrew version of "knowing" is to have intercourse) by the "serpent", and the gods in charge didn't want us reproducing enmasse. we were supposed to be a few hundred cloned slaves who could not reproduce *see the first man reference in genesis (hint: it ain't the dirt adam, it's adam made from the gods, male and female), which the serpent later turned into slaves reproducing like crazy. solution: block off parts of the tree of life. modify the dna so only some parts regenerate, shortening the life span, put in a switch to turn off reproduction after x-amount of years, and insert a cascade termination event.

this verse is incorrectly translated:

Genesis 1:27
So God 430 created 1254 man 120 in his [own] image 6754, in the image 6754 of God 430 created 1254 he him; male 2145 and female 5347 created 1254 he them.

the original words are the ones with numbers after them. and would read thus:

Elohim (plural) created adam in image. image Elohim (plural) created. male female created.

that's it. those are the only words in the first creation of adam, which was the name of an entire race of clones, both male and female, who were collectively known as adam.

see for yourself (click the little numbers after the words, in the verse at the top of the page):
www.blueletterbible.org...

so i'm thinking where the whole idea of women being evil and sex being bad, stems back to the fact, the gods didn't want us procreating, as they only needed a limited number of slaves, but the serpent apparently tampered with our genetic software, and a generation of adams were born with the ability to procreate. this is the second creation of adam, where eve shows up for the first time. the translators did not realize that the serpent was also an elohim, and mixed up the entire story of who made what, when, where and why. it's pretty ancient history ya know

so when you think of it in terms of manipulation, you also have to see it as a deliberate modification, which was unpopular with the head honcho, because he didn't need or want billions of slaves. this is not the fault of women, however!

[edit on 9-5-2010 by undo]

reply to post by Jenna


actually i did read it

In my opinion, the media is becoming more and more culturally degenerate, and trying to demean females by making them think the status quo is to be a lesbian, and destroying their morale at the same time. In the 80's and 90's, and previous decades for that matter, females were respected far more in the media. Now its just sex sex sex. The media portrays them as sex symbols and that their prime goal in life is to be physically attractive for the sake of males, so there really isn't much point in learning or contributing to civilised intellectual discussion, because after all, the only way to get ahead in the world, for a female, is to look good. Obviously my personal opinion couldn't be further from the truth, I am merely parroting the media and it's sexist tripe.

Females are not intrinsically less intelligent, even though their brains are hardwired differently, i.e. to be able to multi-task. People are extremely influenced by the media; more so the more they pay attention to it. Females are no exception. So if they are taught, in subtle yet manipulative ways, ever more strongly, that their main goal in life is to be sexually appealing to men, they will naturally divert their mind and attention to achieving that goal, and in not really using their brain much, as the old saying goes, 'use it or lose it.' What most females don't understand is that being yourself, following your own interests for your own benefit, and having strength of character are important, and that surrendering your life to forever trying to adhere to the status quo, is not.

But I believe the media know all this. They know females are easier to control, brainwash and manipulate, so they do just that. And most females just apathetically and unquestioningly follow like lemmings. But thankfully not all, and clearly not the OP of this discussion.

reply to post by undo


I see what you are getting at. What I was more specifically referring to might be better explained in these examples:

Men generally develop into physically stronger beings than women. In situations where strength can be used by men to dominate women (for example, violence) men should not use this as a means to silence women or make them do things using this as a threat. Men should not use violence to control the women in their lives.

Women generally develop into beings with a stronger resistance to sexual enticement and seduction. This makes the average woman less vulnerable to sexual enticement and provocation than are men. Women should not use sexual coercion to get men to notice them or do favours for them by exploiting this weakness and using it as a form or control.

reply to post by nightowl186


well the portrayal of females in the media is an end game of hedonism. hedonism is a moral system, wherein the natural state of the human being is exalted above the thinking human being. thinking is only used in the accumulation of more material delights, and so it goes. it's the most basic of life forces and very natural, but assumes itself as the only meaning of life, the universe and everything. i think it's somewhere inbetween. but the pendulum doth swingeth between extremes.

reply to post by Dark Ghost


agreed, but then, women were developed in this fashion, so whether or not it's a form of manipulation or just a natural state of being is the question. for example, a woman wears a bikini at the beach. it's not out of place. everyone's half dressed. and she's likely not the only woman wearing a bikini. this is not viewed as seductive by most, even by hard core fundamentalists, evangelicals and so on. but to a strict muslim or jew, such would be the height of depravity, especially in a public place. since they view the rest of the cultures on the planet to be degenerate anyway, they're willing to get their jollies at the expense of half dressed degenerates, but would never let their own women folk dress in such a fashion, because it is seductive (a concept that makes like zero moral sense. why punish your own for being seductive but liberally enjoy the seductive behavior of degenerates? boggles the mind. somewhere along the line, they convinced themselves it was only a sin if employed amongst the ladies of their own culture).

and next is degree of seductivity. a seductive woman doesn't have to be naked or even half naked. in fact, she doesn't even have to talk. further, she doesn't have to move. in fact, she could be sound asleep, sitting up, wearing a hijab and abaya, and some guy would still find a reason to view her in a seductive light.

i realize you are referring to women who use that as a means to an end. but is this not just a natural outcropping of the mating dance? i don't know how you can separate them without making women look like they are at fault if they even so much as exist in the same space as you.

reply to post by Jenna

My focus for this thread though isn’t sexism in general, but the mistaken belief that being female makes someone incapable of original thought and/or incapable of understanding a topic put forth for discussion. What is it that has caused some posters to believe that's true?

Hi Jenna,

Of course there are differences in the sexes and the way they think. Hard to deny that.

I think females take less chances, are less aggressive, less out of the box in their thinking but rather stay more focused, more goal oriented and of course more personal, more humane, and certainly pay more attention to emotions and how others feel about what they think and say.

There are exception to everything I just said.

Obviously, the end result is complimentary. Can you imagine a male dominated world surviving the 20th century for example?

And the inverse, a female dominated world surviving the previous century?

Food for thought!~

reply to post by undo


You know what? Every time I do try to show that women are capable of behaviour that is manipulative towards men I am always accused of trying to blame them and say they are at fault when things go wrong. Women are grown adults too and are just as capable as grown men in realising that exploiting a weakness in the opposite sex is not right and is behaviour that should be discouraged.

I have shown respect, patience and understanding towards other members on this issue but I don't get the same in return. I can freely state and reference anything bad about men without any objections. If I use the same reasoning when mentioning women, I am accused of blaming them and holding them responsible for the consequences they suffer.

It is more than obvious that some members believe responsibility in how you treat the opposite sex only applies to situations involving men and how they treat women. I've had enough of this and am not going to waste my time discussing this issue any further.

[edit on 9/5/2010 by Dark Ghost]

reply to post by Dark Ghost


it isn't an attack on you. what i'm saying is, isn't such behavior the same thing as the mating dance? not every dancer ends up being a mate. i don't personally know any women who use the tactics you refer to, although i'm sure they exist. i've been known to use my position as a woman to gain sympathy for things like breast cancer, chemo, being sexually harrassed, and so forth, but not too big on the whole sexual persuasion dealio.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
reply to post by undo

 

I have shown respect, patience and understanding towards other members on this issue but I don't get the same in return. I can freely state and reference anything bad about men without any objections. If I use the same reasoning when mentioning women, I am accused of blaming them and holding them responsible for the consequences they suffer.

You showed respect, patience and understanding in our interactions on other threads? Yeah okay. When you make statements about your history with other members please remember that they may be reading.

[edit on 9-5-2010 by riley]

reply to post by Jenna

My opinion...
Don't let it bother you too much. The male species are easily made to feel insecure and insignificant, especially when surrounded by females in positions of authority.
Generally these males seek out, "bar bunny" type females that "bobble head" their way through life, thus reinforcing that belief for themselves, (the male).
Any male that has had the pleasure of listening, speaking with (rather than too) or debating a female that has an "inquisitive mind" (most) , has known that the Lady will bring to the conversation greater knowledge, in form of detail, that the male has over looked. (Mind you that would assume that the male is actually taking the time to listen..)
I believe, (as most males do) that the female mind has greater ability to branch the knowledge, (thus debate) to a greater degree of understanding and detail than "most" males.
All of which makes me wonder if I've ever had an original thought since I married, or if my wife's attention to detail has led me to my discoveries???

Wow, I am so hesitant to reply further to this thread.

Thus far I have:

- Had a reply removed (by female mod)
- Criticized for posting a light-hearted video by a Minister. (by a Friend)
- Berated by a self-avowed feminist for a book reference.

I'm not very good at walking on eggshells and perhaps my sense of humor or lack thereof makes me neanderthal. Maybe people were expecting scientific data and analysis as opposed to sincerity and first-hand experience.

I realize that there are fundamental physiological differences between the two sexes and inasmuch as equality is a given we are apples and oranges. (Both fruit.) I know I will never bear a child and can't think of any females that can stand on one leg and tinkle. Perhaps such a species exists.

Warning, not meant to "alienate" anyone.



It was never my intent to minimize the balance of the gender divide on ATS, but so far the OP seems to be one of the few with a sense of humor.

Bottom line. My favorite solution to this is in the signature of Ashley D.:

"Post unto others as you would have them post unto you."



[edit on 9-5-2010 by kinda kurious]