No citizen rights for NY terror suspect

reply to post by airspoon


Right, and as far as I know, American's - home grown ones have been responsible for some of the greatest acts of terrorism on American soil.

They still had their rights, in regards to the process of the law.

reply to post by Djarums


I couldn't find any others sources on his rights being stripped, so I just added sources on the subject. While I can't confirm it, obviously, it certainly does sound plausible and fits in with the mindset of most.

--airspoon

reply to post by airspoon


Obviously some people are Innocent and other's aren't... some have been killed by lethal injection or electric chair who have been innocent and who's to say a Lawyer wins all the time... obviously evidence has not worked on some people in the past...

I suppose i'm saying if the proof is 100% then why spend so much time on lawyers and court dates?

Personally i don't know if i'd want to go through Court procedures and be looked at by the Victims family, juror's and other's looking from the outside...

I wonder why no one here finds it odd that he must be read his "Miranda Rights" before he can exercise his "Miranda Rights".

I mean, if all you have to do is not read someone their "Miranda Rights" and they lose all of their rights, then what happens if their cell mate in prison reads them their "Miranda Rights"?? Do they then go to a judge and say "I know my 'Miranda Rights'", and then they get their rights back?

I mean, so without a judge you can strip anyone's US citizenship, and take away their "rights" (like they had 'rights' anyways, but whatever), and skip any trials or anything just by not reading a 'Miranda Script'?? Just a script? I don't buy it.

I'm surprised the rest of you don't see something extremely fishy here.

I'm pretty sure he's still a U.S. Citizen.

As a U.S. Citizen we have absolute authority to keep him on U.S. Soil, vice a non-citizin who's country would maybe try to have them extradited.

I wonder who is worse; the so called patriots who blindly support a government that strips us of our rights, or those who believe anything and everything as long as it is in line with their views and obvious agenda.

The word of the day is gullible.







[edit on 5/5/2010 by SportyMB]

I still have not seen any evidence linking him yet, so I can say anything. What is his linking? To strip all rights is a series thing to do.

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist


I understand what you mean, but it's always important to remember what you hold dear to your heart and what makes this country great.

We can't fight the enemy by becoming them, we need to preserve our identity as well. This is also how we can show the world that we can be considered as a model for truth and justice.

I see where you are coming from though... sometimes it's easy to be like "Enough already!"

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist


I'm certainly not saying that our system works perfectly, or even works at all but it is our system and we need to abide by it or amend it all together through the proper channels.

Being paraded in front of a jury for any crime surely is not a pleasant experience. No matter what the outcome would be, you still lose, simply due to the cost of lawyers and an adequate defense. Then, sometimes that doesn't even work. Really, your fate would hang in the hands of 12 people, either too dumb to get off of jury duty or too interested to want to stay. Regardless, this is the system that we chose, so we need to either stick with it, or move on to something else through the proper channels.

--airspoon

Edited for grammar.

[edit on 5-5-2010 by airspoon]

Originally posted by airspoon
reply to post by mike_trivisonno

 

Individuals who decide to take up arms and fight for a foreign army are no longer citizens. We have been more than forgiving of Islamic Jihad always thinking the moderate muslims would speak up.

What foreign army would that be? He didn't run off and join a foreign army from the evidence that we have thus far. He is however suspected of committing a crime. Just because there are a bunch of people committing or conspiring to commit the same types of crimes, does not mean that they have joined a foreign army. If we made that argument, then we could easily make that argument for drug users, shop-lifters and child molesters. Where would it stop? Anyone suspected of a "popular" crime is not part of a foreign army and doesn't deserve rights? Come on, that's ridiculous.

--airspoon

Edited for grammar.

[edit on 5-5-2010 by airspoon]

Nope. He is engaged in violent Jihad in an effort to expand the Ummah through killing non-muslims and forcing them to submit to the ascendancy of Islam. He is a member of the Islamic army. He is a holy warrior and fights in the way of the prophet. It has been done this way for 1,400 years.

Just because the structure of the Islamic army and the organization of their fighting forces doesn't fit in with your Western style of warfare, does not make it any less a fact of objective reality. Jihad is real and has been effectively employed to destroy many civilizations and cultures. You refusal to look it in the eye is what will get your head chopped off.

He is an enemy who fights for a foreign power. That puts his citizenship in jeopardy.



[edit on 5-5-2010 by mike_trivisonno]

This CAN'T be true!

Originally posted by Djarums
The only source claiming citizenship has actually been stripped is a press outlet that is owned and operated by the government of Iran.

I hope you're right! This would be a very dark day in the justice system of the US if this were true. This man is innocent until proven guilty (not that I have ANY doubt about his guilt) but he needs to move though the system.

Lieberman Suggests Legislation to Strip his Citizenship

Because of the limits on the handling of Mr. Shahzad, Senator Joseph I. Lieberman of Connecticut, suggested legislation that would strip the citizenship of Americans tied to terrorism. Speaking on Fox News, he noted that existing law removes citizenship from Americans fighting for enemy militaries.

“It’s time for us to look at whether we want to amend that law to apply it to American citizens who choose to become affiliated with foreign terrorist organizations, whether they should not also be deprived automatically of their citizenship and therefore be deprived of rights that come with that citizenship when they are apprehended and charged with a terrorist act,” he said.

What an idiot!

Maybe that's where PressTV got it. There are plenty of people who would treat him differently because of his alleged crime, but I would lose ALL faith in our justice system if that happened. (Not that I have that much to begin with right now...

Glenn Beck, interestingly, stands by the law and the Constitution as far as this guy is concerned. I've got to give him some credit here.

Source

Of course this person should be considered innocent until proven guilty and should be afforded the same rights as any other suspected criminal.

It is at the core of Western civililasation and the moment we compromise our principles then we start the descent into authoritarianism and become that which we despise most and are supposed to oppose.

However, if PROVEN guilty then the maximum punishment by our courts goes nowhere near what these evil terrorists deserve.

can someone update me here?
If the bomber is a Pakistani then why the below:

New York Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said a white man in his 40s was spotted in security video footage about half a block from where the vehicle was left on Saturday evening with its engine running and hazard lights flashing.
www.msnbc.msn.com...

And

There is no evidence of a Taliban link to a failed bomb found in a sport utility vehicle parked in Times Square, New York City Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said Sunday.

Kelly said officers were on their way to a town in Pennsylvania to talk to a man who may have recorded a bombing suspect on his video camera.
www.cbc.ca...

So what's the deal here????

Can someone update me?

reply to post by airspoon



I do see exactly what you are saying and definately do understand why we have Trials but i dunno... think about it for a sec... this was a failed bomb attempt, if it had gone off, many people would have suffered.... sometimes the guilty party just needs to be behind bars before any Court appearance!

I've starred your posts btw

[edit on 5-5-2010 by TruthxIsxInxThexMist]

I hope you're right! This would be a very dark day in the justice system of the US if this were true. This man is innocent until proven guilty (not that I have ANY doubt about his guilt) but he needs to move though the system.

What a joke. Do realize how utterly stupid you look in the eyes of the Jihad? They laugh at your fairly tale understanding of Islam and your willingness to submit to each and every single demand placed upon you by the Ummah.

Stripping this muslim warrior of his citizenship would be the turning point in our effort to stop the jihad being waged in our country.

It is amazing to see the total ignorance of Islamic Jihad displayed by so many people here.

[edit on 5-5-2010 by mike_trivisonno]

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Sorry? I see no need to bring this issue of skin tone into the topic. I know plenty of people who are of Pakistani descent that are whiter than I am, and I am from Prussian, Swedish heritage.

Please don't do that!

People are already looking at people of color for other reasons, that can't benefit anyone!

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I can't find the text from your first excerpt in the linked story.

And the second one, he said that Sunday. I'm not sure there has been a link to the Taliban found, has there?

reply to post by ModernAcademia

If the bomber is a Pakistani then why the below:

New York Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said a white man in his 40s was spotted in security video footage about half a block from where the vehicle was left on Saturday evening with its engine running and hazard lights flashing.

I have been asking myself that as well. I started another thread about how witnesses on the plane, mentioned three people in custody, here. I wonder if these two have a connection somewhere.

--airspoon

Edited to add quote.

[edit on 5-5-2010 by airspoon]

[edit on 5-5-2010 by airspoon]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

I can't find the text from your first excerpt in the linked story.

Sheeshhhhhhhhhh

They changed itttttttttt
I swear it was there before!!!!!

Look
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/23bf2a81c5b1.jpg[/atsimg]

Why did they change it???????

This raises ALOT of suspicions!!!!!!!

Originally posted by mike_trivisonno
Do realize how utterly stupid you look in the eyes of the Jihad?

Do you think I care what "the Jihad" thinks of me???

They laugh at your fairly tale understanding of Islam and your willingness to submit to each and every single demand placed upon you by the Ummah.

I don't give a crap what they laugh at. I'm not submitting to ANYTHING. Your imagination is running rampant. I am standing by our laws WITHOUT REGARD to Islam, the Arab world, "the Jihad" or anyone else. Get a clue.

Stripping this muslim warrior of his citizenship would be the turning point in our effort to stop the jihad being waged in our country.

Once he's found guilty, then they can do just that.

It is amazing to see the total ignorance of Islamic Jihad displayed by so many people here.

What's amazing is seeing the total disregard of OUR country's laws and founding documents because you're so busy worrying about what "the Jihad" and the Arab world thinks and sees. I don't choose to live my life or make my decisions based on an obsession with foreign and terroristic people. I don't want my country to disregard all things precious to me because they're scared. I will not live in fear or or toss my Constitution because of fear.

The height of personal responsibility and accountability is to live to one's own standards, regardless of the standards to which others choose to live.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Yesterday, I actually saw on the news where they had said the same thing about looking for a "white guy" who was caught on video.

--airspoon

Edited to add:
Here is a snippet from NYT:

Law enforcement officials offered a more detailed description of the makeup of the failed car bomb found in Times Square on Saturday night, and said they were reviewing surveillance footage that showed a white man who appeared to be in his 40s walking away from the area as he looked over his shoulder and removed a layer of clothing.

www.nytimes.com

[edit on 5-5-2010 by airspoon]

[edit on 5-5-2010 by airspoon]