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No citizen rights for NY terror suspect

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posted on May, 5 2010 @ 09:07 AM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


It could be that the white man they saw was later found to be totally irrelevant to the story so they took it out. The story does say it's been updated. I don't think it's anything, but I guess it might be.




posted on May, 5 2010 @ 09:07 AM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Sheeshhhhhhhhhh

They changed itttttttttt
I swear it was there before!!!!!

Look


Why did they change it???????

This raises ALOT of suspicions!!!!!!!


I haven't seen a picture of the accused, but a lot of Punjabi Pakistanis are very ''white'' looking, so on security footage he may have appeared to look like an Italian, Greek etc.



posted on May, 5 2010 @ 10:13 AM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


I dont care whether a person is wrong or right but the laws laid down should be followed of equality and rights. If this person doesnt get his rights read USA should stop claiming itself as a democratic country where everyone is treated equally, it will be no better than Pakistan, Israel or Saudi Arabia in simple terms.



posted on May, 5 2010 @ 10:13 AM
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reply to post by Blanca Rose
 


Disillusionment is something which can occur to anyone at any time, i have to agree with you there... people become disillusioned with life... i, myself became very disillusioned with life a few years back but i eventually turned it around and began to do something which cured the disillusionment and turned it into something i could use in my pursuit of happiness & a healthy mind!!

I am no longer disillusioned, instead i see things in a different way to what i saw them before...

Peace.

[edit on 5-5-2010 by TruthxIsxInxThexMist]



posted on May, 5 2010 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Surprisingly there are numerous people who feel that he should not have any rights. This is wrong, people need to understand that due process not only helps the defendant but also everyone else too and the law of the land.

If he is stripped of all rights and is not tried in court, then he may very well be wrongly accused for the crime. Whether you truly believe he is guilty or not is irrelevant, we must never stray away from due process and there must never be a precedence for not conforming to that standard.... ever!
If you disagree then perhaps North Korea would be a more suitable place for you to live in.


I really have to agree with the above. If the issue is that a CITIZEN is being striped of their rights, only for being accused of the crime, then the USA has really gone the way of fascism. The right the accused are in place to protect every person who may be wrongfully accused. Because any person can be accused of a crime and charged or processed it is absolutely necessary to protect those rights, or they are simply a revocable privilege.

The real issue should be, who approved this guys citizenship in the first place? Seems kind of fishy that he would be taking a direct flight to Dubai right after hurrying away from Times square.

..Ex



posted on May, 5 2010 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by mike_trivisonno

Nope. He is engaged in violent Jihad in an effort to expand the Ummah through killing non-muslims and forcing them to submit to the ascendancy of Islam. He is a member of the Islamic army. He is a holy warrior and fights in the way of the prophet. It has been done this way for 1,400 years.

Just because the structure of the Islamic army and the organization of their fighting forces doesn't fit in with your Western style of warfare, does not make it any less a fact of objective reality. Jihad is real and has been effectively employed to destroy many civilizations and cultures. You refusal to look it in the eye is what will get your head chopped off.

He is an enemy who fights for a foreign power. That puts his citizenship in jeopardy.
[edit on 5-5-2010 by mike_trivisonno]


This is a very dangerous proclamation here. If it is deemed that the Muslim religion is in fact an army, then all of the social tolerance can be removed and the members of that army can be treated as enemy combatants even if they are not actively engaged in offensive maneuvers.

This would effectively paint a target on every Muslim on the planet, and to be quite fair most of what we are seeing would constitute war crimes by them. The intentional targeting of civilians, using human shields.. etc etc.

I have to think that the leaders of that religion would very much like to distance themselves from the idea that the religion is an army.

The real issue here is that rights of a citizen cannot be stripped simply by being accused. This is very reminiscent of the old saying, "Lets give him a fair trial, then hang him".

..Ex



posted on May, 5 2010 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic



Speaking on Fox News, he noted that existing law removes citizenship from Americans fighting for enemy militaries.



I will have to disagree with Senators Lieberman and McCain. While they are correct that it is within the law to remove citizenship from an American fighting for an enemy military they are most certainly wrong to ask to do this before the allegations have been proven in a court of law.

If he has a proper trial and it is proven beyond reasonable doubt that he took up arms against the United States, fine. However to do so beforehand would be improper.

HOWEVER, it still appears quite apparent to me that Shahzad's citizenship being stripped might have been suggested by two Senators, but this has NOT yet taken place.

PressTV is - as usual - being irresponsible by claiming that it has. Senators putting forth their suggestions does not equal reality. Again PressTV is showing that they lack journalistic ethics.

I'll state my own position again... he should be given a fair trial first, and then if found guilty perhaps Sens McCain and Lieberman's suggestions should be heeded. Until then, it is not appropriate.



posted on May, 5 2010 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by v3_exceed
This would effectively paint a target on every Muslim on the planet,


Which, I believe, would be just fine with the poster.

Unfortunately, that's what a lot of people would like to happen. Not a majority, but enough to be worrisome. In my view, these people are as dangerous to what we hold dear as are the terrorists.

The problem in dealing with terrorists is that if we aren't careful, the tendency is to become like that which we're fighting. And I see that happening all around.



posted on May, 5 2010 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by Djarums
 


Yes, I agree that the original source is probably incorrect. Either they jumped the gun, perhaps hoping to put a negative slant on the US or they misinterpreted McCain's and Lieberman's stance on the issue and thought that his citizenship had actually been stripped.

I totally agree with you. It would be a huge mistake.



posted on May, 5 2010 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


he was stripped of his citizenship for his crimes.

Thats a just law.

If he's not a citizen, why afford him the rights of one?

Too many bleedy hearts out there for criminals...not enough for victims.



posted on May, 5 2010 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by Snarf
 


It turns out his citizenship probably wasn't stripped. The source is PROBABLY wrong. It is not a law at all that we can strip an American citizen of their citizenship when they commit a crime in this country, before they are found guilty of the crime.

My bleeding heart is not for the criminal, but for the law.



posted on May, 5 2010 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by Snarf
 


It turns out his citizenship probably wasn't stripped. The source is PROBABLY wrong. It is not a law at all that we can strip an American citizen of their citizenship when they commit a crime in this country, before they are found guilty of the crime.

My bleeding heart is not for the criminal, but for the law.


I missed the part where the citizenship probably was not stripped....in that case, he should still be afforded his rights.

I, too, am for the law. And in the case i thought this was, the law said he was not a citizen


Thats where i was coming from...but in atypical fashion, i did not read the entire thing...i guess im too impulsive today.



posted on May, 5 2010 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by mike_trivisonno

Stripping this muslim warrior of his citizenship would be the turning point in our effort to stop the jihad being waged in our country.

[edit on 5-5-2010 by mike_trivisonno]



How God knew what the likes of you would be spurting ...



They only desire your ruin: Hatred has already appeared from their mouths: What their hearts conceal is far worse. We have made plain to you the Signs, if ye have wisdom. (Qur'an, 3:118)



posted on May, 5 2010 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


Can i just you a question?

I will anyway....

Would you give someone like..... Mugabe, a fair trial?



posted on May, 5 2010 @ 12:24 PM
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How God knew what the likes of you would be spurting ...


Don't be foolish. I harbor no hatred for muslims. I simply refuse to bow to their demands that I submit to their form of religion and worship their god, Allah.

I prefer Western Civilization and the individual liberties I enjoy. I will defend it as the muslims defend their culture.

When all people can openly worship in Mecca, we will talk.

Stop Sharia, Stop Jihad, Stop killing apostates.




[edit on 5-5-2010 by mike_trivisonno]



posted on May, 5 2010 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
 





Would you give someone like..... Mugabe, a fair trial?

It all depends on the circumstances. If Mugabe was apprehended by the police and was in custody, sure I'd want him to have a fair trial, though I don't really care as it pertains to this case, because Mugabe is not an American citizen and so isn't protected by our Constitution, IMO. But yes, over-all, I would like him to have a fair trial, if he was apprehended and in custody. If, say, I was over in Zimbabwe, deployed with the army and charged with capturing or killing Mugabe, I would of course try and capture him if he was willing to do so peacefully but if he wasn't, then I would have no problem with putting him down.

The point being that it depends on the circumstances. Also, Faisal Shahzad is a US citizen and therefore protected by the Constitution, where Mugabe is not. Him not being an American citizen though does not sway my beliefs about a fair trial, just in a different way because it doesn't pertain to the Constitution. If it was between giving him a fair trial and letting him get away, well that's a different story. There is nothing wrong with a fair trial, especially if the evidence suggesting guilt is plenty. Just my 2 cents.

--airspoon

Edited for spelling.

[edit on 5-5-2010 by airspoon]

[edit on 5-5-2010 by airspoon]



posted on May, 5 2010 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by mike_trivisonno


Don't be foolish. I harbor no hatred for muslims.



Your writings paint another picture.



I simply refuse to bow to their demands that I submit to their form of religion and worship their god, Allah.


I am muslim. I am not demanding anyone to bow down to my religion.
And its not "their" or "our" God, Allah is THE GOD. (allah -elah -eloh-allaha)



When all people can openly worship in Mecca, we will talk.


Kaba is the first place of worship built for the worship of one true God.
If you believe in ONE God - you are welcome to go and worship there.



Stop Sharia, Stop Jihad, Stop killing apostates.


Sharia is God's law. Presently there is not a single country that applies sharia.
Jihad means to struggle, primarily with ones self, and the inner thoughts of evil.
Everyone is free to believe whatever they want. Quran says "Your duty is only to deliver the message". I have done that. What you do with that message, I am not gonna be responsible for you.


G'day to you.



[edit on 5-5-2010 by mike_trivisonno]



posted on May, 5 2010 @ 01:06 PM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


Fair do's.... i just thought i'd ask the question because a lot of people believe everyone should have a fair trial when in fact in some cases it's blatantly obvious that someone has committed a severe act of brutality...

Anyway nice answer and i respect it.

As for me, if i was offered a certain amount of cash to take someone like Mugabe out of the World then i wouldn't hesitate... there would be no trial....





posted on May, 5 2010 @ 01:49 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on May, 5 2010 @ 04:00 PM
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As I said in the other thread regarding this bright idea, I doubt Schmo Lieberman will get that terrible bill passed, and it is really a disgusting affront to justice and human decency.

What happens if one of the "accused" turns out to be innocent?
Ship him back to the States, tell him your sorry for the fascist GITMO treatment and make him a citizen again?

The accused in this country still has rights and those rights should never be touched.

If found "guilty", then maybe we could talk.

- Lee



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