Examining the Hash House Harriers

Before today I had never heard of the Hash House Harriers. And I must thank you OP for introducing it to me. That being said, I don't understand the anger and resentment for not being invited to your friends hash club, or whatever it's called. So, because you can't go you're going to talk down to people for not "admitting" things that might not even be true? So you're calling them liars? That is rediculous.
I think the whole idea of it's hilarious. It's a club, for goodness sakes! So what if people want to participate in some escapism?? Why is that your business anyway? And some people would call posting on an internet conspiracy theory forum a form of escape as well. What do you do to "save the world"? What charities do you donate time and money to? Oh, and I'll need to see some proof. These people told you their personal experiences but you already have your mind made up that they're devil-worshipping luciferian cults. Join your own club and tell your friend he can't go with you. That'll show 'em!


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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Hello Augustus, & thanks for your question about the similarities. I found many, but I’ll stick to the obvious ones. So far as I have been able to discern from my research, please adjust your mind & picture the checkered floor that Masons regard as a symbol of good and evil. Masonic lodges reside on the white squares, but in order to have complete balance, they participate in hashes to reside on the black squares.
Please consider the following ritual quote (reduced for focus & limited space):
WM (Worshipful Master): “What came you here to do?”
SW: “To learn to subdue my passions….”
As a Mason, this is the respectable & acceptable behavior, but people cannot be good all the time, so they must find an outlet for the sinful side of their human psyche, hence their need to participate in kennel activities to achieve complete balance.
You’ll notice from the above hash baptism I referenced, chalk was used in the ritual. This is specifically mentioned within the following quote & relates it‘s Masonic symbolism:
“Entered Apprentices should serve their masters
with freedom, fervency and zeal, which are represented by Chalk, Charcoal, and Clay.
There is nothing freer than Chalk, the slightest
touch of which leaves a trace;”
Concerning the act of baptism, I offer you the following Masonic baptism:
Chap (Probably equivalent to the hash religious advisor): “It is like the precious ointment upon the head,
that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron’s beard;
that went down to the skirts of his garments; as
the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that
descended upon the mountains of Zion:”
The hash prayers also pay homage to the sun & always run trails during full moons.
Please consider the following Masonic quote:
“The Three Lesser Lights are the Sun, Moon, and
Master of the Lodge, and are thus explained: as
the Sun rules the day and the Moon governs the
night, so should the Worshipful Master, with equal
regularity, rule and govern the lodge.”
The final similarity I am going to mention is how I referenced that the hashers make the symbol of the ‘X’ with their hands during their prayer. ‘X’s have right angles, so I find the need to parallel it with the following Masonic ritual”
Apprentice advances on his left foot, bringing the
heel of his right into the hollow of his left, thereby
forming the angle of a square. This is the dueguard,
and alludes to the position of your hands
while taking the Obligation; this is the sign, and
alludes to the penalty of the Obligation. This dueguard
and sign are always to be given as a
salutation to the Worshipful Master, also on
entering or retiring from an Entered Apprentices
Lodge.
I can offer you more evidence & similarities, but this is getting a bit long & arduous. I hope I have answered your question as to how the Masonic rituals mirror the hash rituals/prayers.

reply to post by sindeestarr


First off, sindeestarr, nice to make your acquaintence. I don't know what you mean about anger & resentment. Yes, it upsets me that I'm not welcome simply because I asked some questions he obviously didn't want to answer, but you see that every day in politics. Do you believe everything our so-called elected officials deem as the truth & admit that nothing is being hidden? I'm simply trying to figure out why this society exists, what it's purpose is, & I'm trying to delve a bit deeper to find out what it's agenda is. I would also like to note that ATS is all about evidence & proving things, that's why I'm asking for proof about charitable contributions if that's what everyone claims that it's all about. I have a feeling that you didn't read the entire thread or any of the links I provided. So until then, deny ignorance, sindeestarr.

reply to post by sindeestarr


Oh, and to answer your questions about what I do for society, I have donated to several animal & wildlife organizations, adopted unwanted animals, donated time tutoring children in reading, & participated in wildlife rehabilitation. I'm currently waiting to hear when they need volunteers to clean the oil off water fowl since I specialize in birds. Sorry I don't have receipts for the money I donated to the animal charities, but I didn't claim it on my taxes either. Oh, & by the way, I also don't collect any money from people, so I don't have to prove anything.

I think you've missed my point about what they do and why they do it. It's a farce. It's supposed to resemble the Elite's activities, but to make fun of it. When you look at it in that light it takes on a whole new meaning. And from the other posters who shared their experiences, this seems to be the case and then you call them liars. For goodness sakes, they make trails with flour, give each other goofy names and sing rowdy songs. Many clubs collect dues. Somebody has to buy the alcohol and flour, right? Who said clubs had to give to charities? Who cares? Why is it automatically a luciferian organization connected to the government? Do you think maybe founders were just fed up with things they encountered on a day to day basis? Like the good ol' boys system with the Masons, draconian mangement hence the term "mismanagement" (come on, thats funny!), the Elite's ritual of hunting with hounds. Do you see what I mean? It was meant as escapism from the crappy world the Elites had them enslaved in.


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reply to post by sindeestarr


Excuse me, but for someone who hadn't even heard of the group prior to my post, you're awefully defensive. I never called anyone liars. I simply stated that nobody was willing to admit that their hash is involved with any of the activities I mentioned. They'd all heard of it happening in other hashes, but never theirs. I'd even liked to have heard about their opnions about what I was wanting to discuss, but nobody stepped forward. One person atleast stated that folks intervene if someone steps over the line, but didn't explain what type of activity this would be. I'm not attacking the poster who stated this fact & it's my fault for neglecting to ask. If the poster sees this, I would be interested to hear what would be considered over the line.

sorry if i came across as mean in my first post but you were calling other posters liars and that made me feel defensive for my fellow ats'ers that were just trying to help you out in denying your own ignorance on this particular subject. You set them up, and that's not fair. You had your own preconcieved notions and only wanted to hear conformation of them and nothing to the contrary. But revisit your link and look at them in the light of the whole thing being an eloborate joke or escapism from the games the elites play and it might make a whole lot more sense. And if you can't or don't want to then you don't understand what denying ignorance really is. You asked for help and then don't want it.


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reply to post by sindeestarr


Again, nowhere did I call anybody a liar!!! Would you quit already. I offered legitimate evidence that nobody would even give their opinion about or state why or why not it didn't happen within their kennel, except Kiwifoot. He's the only one who answered my questions without acting as though I was creating all of my own evidence out of thin air. Go join one if you're so inclined, but don't ask any questions. I can say that it probably isn't my cup of tea. Haven't you ever wondered how/why a subculture was formed? Can you find me evidence that it is joking the elite because it seems as though it was designed by the elite to see how far people would go if allowed to be let off the leash. Besides, if you have the hounds chasing the hares, I'm sure the hunters can't be far behind.

Reply to post by Afterthought

Well, along that line of thought, all boy scouts must be bad due to the actions of a few of them. Or all catholic priests must be bad. Or all presidents. Or all college fraternities. Or all of humanity for that matter. Maybe that is what you think, who knows? On a internet conspiracy forum it's easy to think everyone is out to get you but only YOU can let someone else make you feel inferior. I think this "friend" does not have your best interest at heart, and maybe only wants to hurt you by excluding you. Who knows maybe it's a blessing in disguise. From your interests it sounds like you have many more important things to do than worry about drunkards running around in the woods. So it's not for you. Btw, good luck with the oil spill! Very tragic and what even more tragic, imo, is the people trying to down-play the damage and the incredible scope of this disaster. Boo.


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The topic of subcultures is quite fascinating. Like the punk movement, the drug culture (current and past). You know what the harriers reminded me of led me to my decision is the slacker church (i can't remeber the exact name right now, u might know what i'm talking about though) but subcultures are intersting like where they came from, why people formed them and so on. It, however, might require it's own topic. I'll have to do a search and get my required 20 posts. If I do start one I'd like for you to join the discussion. Keep an eye out for it. Although, I think we might have to agree to disagree on the harriers, lol. I'm pretty convinced it's meant to be funny, a rebellion against the status quo.


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Well I for one would like to thank you for bringing this to my attention. You see, I am a member of a church group who likes to take action against the problems in our world like some I`ve heard mentioned here. Yes in fact I believe direct action would be best. I will be notifying our board of inquiry to look in on this immediately. After all, we`ve all been looking for a place where there are other people who know how to lighten up and have a good time. Everyone is so uptight nowadays I swear I could make a fortune perfecting a surgery to remove the sticks out of people`s asses... So thank you for the referral, it will be much appreciated to find like minded individuals. Don`t you see the agenda in the whole anti-sex, anti-anything fun version of "religious ideology"? It`s all a ploy. The loud in-your-face message of "deny your impulses" only makes kids and adults think about impure acts more than they normally would. Don`t you know by now? "Satan`s smoke has reached inside the church" You can`t trust anything coming from church authorities. In fact it is they who need our help now, they have been unknowingly subverted by satans agents working as their superiors. I`m not saying we are close to end time, noone knows that, but this was predicted in the bible and we dont know how long it will last we just know that the church is supposed to be infiltrated and will remain that way until the end time. We can`t look to leaders in these times. Only the people, the .masses including the sick and poor can handle and solve this. It`s about not hating your neighbor anymore and not trying to be better than everyone. Not just that, it`s about LOVING your neighbor and realizing that we are all EQUAL. look at church l eaders today? Are most of them doing God`s work, in your honest opinion? Yes, they do sometimes point out some satanic goings on we should be aware of and contribute to good causes like feeding homeless, but that is all overshadowed by the immense amount of finger pointing and passing judgement, something reserved for God, I thought. What they mainly do now is incite anger and divide our people. There might be a few good ones left, but not for long.


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reply to post by sindeestarr


Please read my thread again. I placed this under Secret Societies because they are a registered society with a bank account(s). Even though they are a subculture, they are obviously more than this. Sid Vicious was one of the people who helped start the punk movement & the CIA is the one who started & continues to expand upon the drug movement.

I truly don't want to upset anyone. I just see a lot of things regarding this group/subculture/society/cult that screams mind control & desensitization. Maybe it was formed as a social experiment? Some folks believe that the Grateful Dead was working for the CIA to see what '___' would do to folks en mass. If you read their lyrics, these people may be on to something.

My concern about the kennels contributing to society is because several self-proclaimed hashers have stated that they do this, but I am unable to find any past or future hashes that mention such contributions.

In a world that is falling apart quite quickly, we need a group as world wide & organized as the hashers to come together & do things that people who aren't involved in groups aren't capable of accomplishing. If the all the hashers in the US alone would organize a run through the streets of DC where they were naked & wrote political demands all over their bodies & tried to get the general public to participate, I would be more than willing to join in the fun. Obama likes beer. Maybe he'd be willing to sit down for a pow-wow & discuss a few ideas.

I know for a fact that the hashers are mostly comprised of intelligent people. I just would like to see them do something because they are certainly more powerful than the general public attempting to organize something that would gain world wide attention.

Unless this group was started by the elite & is only concerned with celebrating the dumbing down of people & destruction of morals/values, than their lack of desire to demonstrate against big government is understandable and would only give me more reason to consider my theory a valid argument & solidify my suspicions.

Originally posted by sindeestarr
Reply to post by Afterthought

 

I think this "friend" does not have your best interest at heart, and maybe only wants to hurt you by excluding you. Who knows maybe it's a blessing in disguise. From your interests it sounds like you have many more important things to do than worry about drunkards running around in the woods. So it's not for you. Btw, good luck with the oil spill! Very tragic

and what even more tragic, imo, is the people trying to down-play the damage and the incredible scope of this disaster. Boo.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

You may be right. I'm glad to see that we finally agree on something. Big problems require big solutions. One person can't change the world, but that's why we need groups that are already well organized to make a difference.

Because the international Hash House Harriers running movement is so decentralized, there is a lot of variety between what we call kennels (clubs). My kennel descended directly from the original, and thus does not have funny names, or the tongue-in-cheek “rituals” that other kennels have. But I can say that those traditions, borrowed from rugby rather than Masons are all done in entirely in jest; a (sophomoric) joke for the sake of entertainment. The Hash never takes itself too seriously (nor should anyone else). They get enough of that in their real lives.

Going back to a historical part, the founding members were not initially military. As was previously mentioned, Gispert was an accountant, others were British colonial administrators, and so forth in Malaya (now Malaysia). That changed on December 7, 1941, when concurrent to the attack on Pearl Harbor, British territories throughout the Pacific were likewise attacked by the Japanese. Gispert and other patriotic-minded people then joined the military. Gispert lies in an unmarked grave today, and it would be pretty far off base to link his sacrifice to the behavior of individuals associated with the Abu Ghraib incident.

Hash kennels around the world have been extremely active and generous to charitable causes. On any given day, one only has to go to the news section of Google and use the term “Hash House Harriers.” I saw two stories there today. The Red Dress Run is held by many kennels around the world to raise funds for local charities. It was thought that the hash should try to make an impact on the local level where it could make a difference. And it has! Over the years, this event alone has raised millions of dollars for very worthy causes.

A quick note about members for life: What? In most kennels, if a stranger shows up with $5 to help cover the costs, he or she is in. Come without money the next time, and you may not be as well-received. While there are exceptions, the Hash is probably less exclusive than the local chess club.

Another point worth making is that there is tremendous diversity between kennels due to the nature of decentralization. That means that what you infer (rightly or wrongly) about one, may not apply to the other.

To summarize truths that we have found in this ongoing discussion:
• The Hash is a non-competitive running club that requires a sense of humor
• The Hash is in no way a religion.
• Any “ritual” is done for laughs and is not uniformly practiced
• The hash is not part of a military cabal engaged in hazing
• The Hash actively engages in raising money for local, charitable causes across the globe.
• If there is a secret handshake, nobody told me.

If there’s any real scandal here, it’s the millions of people that don’t Hash or participate in any other form of physical activity. The shame is the proliferation of sedentary couch potatoes; particularly among young people. If the Hash and its particular brand of humor is not to your taste, I would encourage you to get outside nevertheless and find some form of exercise.

Originally posted by Afterthought
...please adjust your mind & picture the checkered floor that Masons regard as a symbol of good and evil. Masonic lodges reside on the white squares, but in order to have complete balance, they participate in hashes to reside on the black squares.

Lodges do not reside on any portion of the Mosaic Pavement. It is meant as an allegory that ones life is filled with both good and bad moments, whether self-wrought or brought about by others. You also left out the Indented Tessel, which is ritually part of every Mosaic Pavement, and symbolizes that we should be thankful to God for surrounding our live with blessings and comforts.

The lesson of the Mosaic Pavement is not to try and fill your life equally with both good and bad but that good bad will occur in your life and that you should be thankful for the good in life and strive for this.

Please consider the following ritual quote (reduced for focus & limited space):
WM (Worshipful Master): “What came you here to do?”
SW: “To learn to subdue my passions….”
As a Mason, this is the respectable & acceptable behavior, but people cannot be good all the time, so they must find an outlet for the sinful side of their human psyche, hence their need to participate in kennel activities to achieve complete balance.

I disagree. I do not find that I need to act sinfully to complete my life nor is this a lesson taught in Masonry. As a matter of fact that analogy is diametrically opposed to what Masons are taught in the ritual. Do I alwyas do the right thing? No. But I try to extract my ego from the equation and tread the path of doing right to others then by trying to be right all the time.

You’ll notice from the above hash baptism I referenced, chalk was used in the ritual. This is specifically mentioned within the following quote & relates it‘s Masonic symbolism:
“Entered Apprentices should serve their masters
with freedom, fervency and zeal, which are represented by Chalk, Charcoal, and Clay.
There is nothing freer than Chalk, the slightest
touch of which leaves a trace;”

The Hash symbolisim has nothing to do with the inference in Masonic ritual

Concerning the act of baptism, I offer you the following Masonic baptism:
Chap (Probably equivalent to the hash religious advisor): “It is like the precious ointment upon the head,
that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron’s beard;
that went down to the skirts of his garments; as
the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that
descended upon the mountains of Zion:”

What you are quoting is part of the Entered Apprentice degree and you left out the first, and a rather important, part of the Psalm:

Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity.

Its Masonic context is meant to invoke Brotherly Love and harmony, it is not a baptismal rite.

The hash prayers also pay homage to the sun & always run trails during full moons.
Please consider the following Masonic quote:
“The Three Lesser Lights are the Sun, Moon, and
Master of the Lodge, and are thus explained: as
the Sun rules the day and the Moon governs the
night, so should the Worshipful Master, with equal
regularity, rule and govern the lodge.”

I think that is a very serious stretch. The Sun and Moon appear in countless pieces of literature, odes, ritual, allegories, folklore, etc. To draw a correlary between how it is used by the Hashers and Masons is not a very good analogy. The full moon has zero meaning in Masonic ritual, nor do we pay homage to the sun.

The final similarity I am going to mention is how I referenced that the hashers make the symbol of the ‘X’ with their hands during their prayer. ‘X’s have right angles, so I find the need to parallel it with the following Masonic ritual”
Apprentice advances on his left foot, bringing the
heel of his right into the hollow of his left, thereby
forming the angle of a square.

I suggest you get a protractor and take a close look at the letter X, there are no right angles used in its construction.

I can offer you more evidence & similarities, but this is getting a bit long & arduous. I hope I have answered your question as to how the Masonic rituals mirror the hash rituals/prayers.

I think it may be long and ardous because you are forcing the issue. If there were similarities between Masonic ritual and the Hashers it would much more obvious. Such as the relation between Masonic ritual and The Knights of Columbus degrees, or collegiate fraternities or certain portions of Mormon ritual.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Good evening, Augustus. Thank you for responding to the examples I listed. I appreciate your thoughtful response & your citations as well. I find you to be a calm, rational debater, which seems to be few & far between these days.

I apologize for leaving out some of the words/phrases you indicated as important, but since I am not a Mason, I am unable to identify these particular things. I was trying to keep my evidence focused. I also liked how you poked holes in my theory in an intelligent manner without any agression. I know that Masons are used to being questioned & I enjoyed your challenge to my statement.

I just wish that people would understand that when you're part of a group, especially one that is legally labeled as a society, you should expect to be questioned by the curious. Questioning is a healthy, intelligent, human quality. Desiring to understand & consider another individual's opinion(s) should also never be looked down upon. In such a turbulant & bizarre world, I hope I never stop questioning things. I always want to believe that there is good within everything even if I have to poke & prod those who have the answers I seek.

My best to you, Augustus. Take care.

[edit on 5-5-2010 by Afterthought]

Originally posted by Afterthought
Good evening, Augustus. Thank you for responding to the examples I listed. I appreciate your thoughtful response & your citations as well. I find you to be a calm, rational debater, which seems to be few & far between these days.

Thank you, I appreciate the compliment and hope that we can both continue to have a civil discourse.

I apologize for leaving out some of the words/phrases you indicated as important, but since I am not a Mason, I am unable to identify these particular things.

Understandable and I do not hold those points against you. It is difficult to utilize Masonic ritual to make a point with out participating in the same but if you have any questions I would be happy to answer them.

I just wish that people would understand that when you're part of a group, especially one that is legally labeled as a society, you should expect to be questioned by the curious. Questioning is a healthy, intelligent, human quality. Desiring to understand & consider another individual's opinion(s) should also never be looked down upon.

I concur. I am quite used to being asked probing or pointed questions about my membership in the Fraternity. As long as people take a reasonable stance I am more then willing to discuss all aspects (except modes of recognition) with those willing to ask.

a turbulant & bizarre world, I hope I never stop questioning things. I always want to believe that there is good within everything even if I have to poke & prod those who have the answers I seek.

This is always the best path to travel as the truth only comes to those who seek it.

to you, Augustus. Take care.

And the same to you.

Originally posted by AlrightyThen
Because the international Hash House Harriers running movement is so decentralized, there is a lot of variety between what we call kennels (clubs). My kennel descended directly from the original, and thus does not have funny names, or the tongue-in-cheek “rituals” that other kennels have. But I can say that those traditions, borrowed from rugby rather than Masons are all done in entirely in jest; a (sophomoric) joke for the sake of entertainment. The Hash never takes itself too seriously (nor should anyone else). They get enough of that in their real lives.

Going back to a historical part, the founding members were not initially military. As was previously mentioned, Gispert was an accountant, others were British colonial administrators, and so forth in Malaya (now Malaysia). That changed on December 7, 1941, when concurrent to the attack on Pearl Harbor, British territories throughout the Pacific were likewise attacked by the Japanese. Gispert and other patriotic-minded people then joined the military. Gispert lies in an unmarked grave today, and it would be pretty far off base to link his sacrifice to the behavior of individuals associated with the Abu Ghraib incident.

Hash kennels around the world have been extremely active and generous to charitable causes. On any given day, one only has to go to the news section of Google and use the term “Hash House Harriers.” I saw two stories there today. The Red Dress Run is held by many kennels around the world to raise funds for local charities. It was thought that the hash should try to make an impact on the local level where it could make a difference. And it has! Over the years, this event alone has raised millions of dollars for very worthy causes.

A quick note about members for life: What? In most kennels, if a stranger shows up with $5 to help cover the costs, he or she is in. Come without money the next time, and you may not be as well-received. While there are exceptions, the Hash is probably less exclusive than the local chess club.

Another point worth making is that there is tremendous diversity between kennels due to the nature of decentralization. That means that what you infer (rightly or wrongly) about one, may not apply to the other.

To summarize truths that we have found in this ongoing discussion:
• The Hash is a non-competitive running club that requires a sense of humor
• The Hash is in no way a religion.
• Any “ritual” is done for laughs and is not uniformly practiced
• The hash is not part of a military cabal engaged in hazing
• The Hash actively engages in raising money for local, charitable causes across the globe.
• If there is a secret handshake, nobody told me.

If there’s any real scandal here, it’s the millions of people that don’t Hash or participate in any other form of physical activity. The shame is the proliferation of sedentary couch potatoes; particularly among young people. If the Hash and its particular brand of humor is not to your taste, I would encourage you to get outside nevertheless and find some form of exercise.

Thanks for offering your response, but I find it redundent, snotty, & aggressive. You pretty much reiterated everything that we've already discussed & did not offer any citations or opinions about the types of debauchery I consider to be extreme & unhealthy. Again, everyone claims that these behaviors don't happen in their kennel, but nobody will discuss why not or what they think about these shocking claims that do show up when you google search the H3. I'm not an idiot when it comes to researching on the net & you're talking to me as though I made up all the citations. It's simply disrespectful of you. If anyone needs to google search that term, it's you since you are obviously in disbelief about the activities & rituals I'm citing from sources I included, which you obviously failed to do in your post I quoted above. You need to learn to read a bit more closely, too. I never said that I ever went to a hash, so your comment about me not being accepted because I didn't bring any money was assinine (but it backs up my claim about it being centered around money). I simply said that I asked my friend to bring me to one of the hashes he attends since I wanted to experience it for myself, but he said, "No" because the other hashers would treat him differently. I find this bizarre since all the kennels claim to welcome everyone & don't judge anybody. Then, I started thinking that he might not have wanted me to attend since I was asking too many questions about what I was reading. This is why I have started this thread. I guess I'll have to get my money & attend one on my own.

The only thing I can truly thank you for is mentioning the Red Dress Run. I wish you would've provided a link within your post, but I diligently searched it on my own & discovered that it is a real charity. The New Orleans hash seems to be the most active & proud of their participation of this event. Kudos to them. Unfortunately, I noticed that the hashes overseas have many more hash runs dedicated to charities than the American hashes. That's dissappointing.

Also, I'll disregard your comment alluding to the idea that I'm a couch potato who needs to find a source of exercise. You have no idea who I am & that was a low blow. To quell your curiosity, I'm more athletic & better built than most people my age, but my physique & exercise habits aren't even part of this discussion. My curiosity & willingness to attend with an open mind are the only things that're obvious here.

[edit on 5-5-2010 by Afterthought]

reply to post by Afterthought


This "ritual" sounds like it might be silly, rather than solemn or religious in nature. Keep in mind all people involved are probably drunk out of their gourds and the hash name is probably something juvenile like "dog butt licker."

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


Thank you for mentioning the rituals. Have you participated in any? I read the Hash Marriage Ceremony. It seemed silly, but still had an air of legitimacy. Have you ever seen one?

Regarding the names, the one you mentioned is along the lines I've seen, but I've seen much worse & can't help but wonder why certain names I don't dare mention here due to ATS's guidelines regarding vulgarities. You can certainly see many of the names I'm mentioning in the link I posted, which is from a 2003 naked hash run. By the way, I purposely posted one from that long ago for reasons associated with general respect to the hash who participated in the run & the activities stated. Like I already said, I'm not trying to ruin any kennels or sabotage anyone. I'm just trying to understand. I realize the group is centered upon physical fitness, but being mentally & hygenically healthy creates a totally healthy individual. One certain activity I find repulsive is the "butt chug". Seriously, after sweating after running & knowing that a whole lotta bacteria hangs out around this particular body section, why subject yourself (not accusing you specifically) to MRSA, E. coli, & other harmful bacteria found on the human body? I can only view this as a desensitization activity, which is well documented in the hash dictionaries & one of the top listed songs. From what I have read from numerous sites, it's a well-known activity & seems to be used as a down-down used as punishment for someone who breaks one of the "rules" made up by the leader(s) of the kennel. Since nobody will discuss, I have to label it as hazing. I went to plenty of frat parties in college, but nothing ever got this extreme. Yeah, we had instances of pressuring people into running across campus naked, & that was funny. For a group that seems to pride itself of staying in shape, why does internal health seem to be a joke? The things I've read appear to be well buried by members who aren't willing to discuss or even offer their opinions on such activities. Please, I'm not a prude & I have a sense of humor, but I'm not mad as a hatter either.

[edit on 6-5-2010 by Afterthought]