Young Aussie genius whipping NASA in Moon Hoax Debate!

Originally posted by DJW001

So what you're saying is that you can't believe that a USAF pilot couldn't bear the unendurable pain of holding a feather for 40 seconds. Wow.

What does being a USAF pilot have anything to do with it? Besides him being a paid stooge for NASA?

Watch this video on the subject of pressurized gloves:


See how easily the Astronaut in the video handled the Camera?
Now again, read this report on gloves:

Another subject that the astronauts were passionate about was the spacesuit gloves. They all felt that the gloves they had used were barely adequate and better gloves were necessary. The Apollo gloves imposed serious limitations on hand mobility, finger dexterity and tactility, and resulted in serious arm fatigue. This began within minutes of the start of the EVA and continued throughout the day. They approved of the improvements in the Series 4000 space shuttle gloves compared to the Apollo glove, but felt that more work was necessary. Custom gloves are a necessity—in fact, it is current NASA policy to produce custom gloves for all astronauts training for EVAs. Although the Apollo astronauts were intrigued by the possibility of end effectors instead of gloves, they felt that they required greater study.

The moonwalkers also said that tool control was difficult, with the major problem being gripping the tool. The Apollo glove made it hard to grip the tools, and hand tools caused much fatigue. They thought that it was an absolute must that there be a way of holding the tool in the hand without continuous gripping.

These two dont match.

The Apollo astronauts also strongly recommended improving glove flexibility, dexterity and fit. According tothe crews, the most fatiguing part of surface EVA tasks was repetitive gripping. One crew member stated that“efficiency was no more than 10% of the use of the hand” (Scheuring et al., 2007). The crew also sustained sig-nificant fingernail and hand trauma, as described in “Risks to crew health: EVA suit design parameters” below

10%?

The gloves had fingerpads. What could you feel?

Nothing. You didn't have any dexterity. You could feel a big button like that of course and you had a camera trigger, you could change the film canisters on your Hasselblad, and you could do the experiments, but you couldn't thread a sewing needle. You didn't have that dexterity.

Think about that. If they couldnt feel what they were holding onto, then how could DAVE know when he actually grabbed the feather?

You couldn't feel the texture of the rock.

No, you couldn't feel any of that. You couldn't feel it on your feet either. It was Moon boots and then spacesuit boots, and then under that you had a set of socks. You could feel the pressure but you couldn't feel the feel.

So how could Neil Amstrong describe the soil as being like powdered charcoal? I mean, what does that feel like with a boot on?





www.thespacereview.com...
homepage.mac.com...
www.thespacereview.com...
humanresearchroadmap.nasa.gov...

reply to post by FoosM


What's this. JW using copyrighted music on his videos now? I'm sure you have a hotline to him so tell him to re-edit that and use something else before someone flags that video. He might end up having his account closed again

What does being a USAF pilot have anything to do with it? Besides him being a paid stooge for NASA?

Military officers have training and discipline. They can wear their fingers to the bone without whining like a little girl... or Jarrah.

Originally posted by backinblack
It is odd though..
No man before or since Apollo has left Earths orbit..

Considering how quickly they managed it you'd think they would have continued..

It's not that odd really. With NASA's shrinking budget, the Apollo program was discontinued due to its high costs. The US Gov't made the decision to pursue a low earth orbital infrastructure program, which included the development of a Space Station and Shuttle. And as we all know, the Shuttle is what manned spaceflight was stuck with for the past 30 years.

Nothing has been designed or built in those past 30 years that would have been able to take people beyond Earth orbit, because NASA hasn't had the budget to do that. Not until recently anyway. Now they're working on the MPCV (Orion) which has the potential to take people to the Moon, NEO's and maybe even Mars. This is assuming that the project isn't axed at some point by the US Gov't to save money.

Originally posted by FoosM
Think about that. If they couldnt feel what they were holding onto, then how could DAVE know when he actually grabbed the feather?

By looking at it with his eyes perhaps?

So how could Neil Amstrong describe the soil as being like powdered charcoal? I mean, what does that feel like with a boot on?

Armstrong was giving a visual description of what the Lunar soil was like.

109:24:48 Armstrong: Yes, the surface is fine and powdery. I can kick it up loosely with my toe. It does adhere in fine layers, like powdered charcoal, to the sole and sides of my boots. I only go in a small fraction of an inch, maybe an eighth of an inch, but I can see the footprints of my boots and the treads in the fine, sandy particles.

Originally posted by DJW001

What does being a USAF pilot have anything to do with it? Besides him being a paid stooge for NASA?

Military officers have training and discipline. They can wear their fingers to the bone without whining like a little girl... or Jarrah.

I think your confusing the Air Force with other the military branches. Second, the astronauts WERE WHINING about it. Or didnt the numerous comments about how much their fingers hurt using the gloves gave you a clue? Further, your whole comment on the matter has no scientific support; your tossing shots of patriotic pablum into the air.

Originally posted by jra

Originally posted by backinblack
It is odd though..
No man before or since Apollo has left Earths orbit..

Considering how quickly they managed it you'd think they would have continued..

It's not that odd really. With NASA's shrinking budget, the Apollo program was discontinued due to its high costs.

Let me then ask this question, do you know if Apollo 18, 19 or 20 was already paid for by the tax payers?

Originally posted by jra

Armstrong was giving a visual description of what the Lunar soil was like.

109:24:48 Armstrong: Yes, the surface is fine and powdery. I can kick it up loosely with my toe. It does adhere in fine layers, like powdered charcoal, to the sole and sides of my boots. I only go in a small fraction of an inch, maybe an eighth of an inch, but I can see the footprints of my boots and the treads in the fine, sandy particles.

Armstrong could not possibly have done this if he was in the shadow side of the LM.

www.hq.nasa.gov...

Notice, he was still holding on to the ladder, and offering a description of the surface without skipping a beat. What bad voice acting. Did you see him bend down to check his feet?

By the way, Neil could have just given the public a clue to what was actually used for the ground in staging the landing. Powdered Charcoal. Where did Neil get this descriptor from? Was he an artist? Did he brush his teeth with it?

Originally posted by PsykoOps
reply to post by FoosM

 

What's this. JW using copyrighted music on his videos now? I'm sure you have a hotline to him so tell him to re-edit that and use something else before someone flags that video. He might end up having his account closed again

And this is what you find important in watching the video?
Is it that the evidence bothers you so you wish that JW would have his account closed to stop the flow of information? Are you worried about the butchering of the sacred cow called Apollo?

reply to post by FoosM

Notice, he was still holding on to the ladder, and offering a description of the surface without skipping a beat. What bad voice acting. Did you see him bend down to check his feet?

Busted again.

109:24:12 Armstrong: Okay. I'm going to step off the LM now. (Long Pause)
[Neil has his right hand on the ladder and will step down with his left foot, leaving his right foot on the footpad. As he reaches down with his foot, the 16-mm film indicates that there isn't much slack in the LEC. ...

109:24:23 Armstrong: That's one small step for (a) man; one giant leap for mankind. (Long Pause)...

[The raw NASA transcript give the start of this transmission as 109:24:48, which is clearly inconsistent with what has gone before. The Apollo 11 Mission Report gives "initial contact" as 109:24:15 or 02:56:15 GMT/UTC on 21 July 1969. Later in the mission, NASA tells the press that the first step came at 109:24:20. An examination of the restored video indicates that, to the extent that the audio and video tracks are properly synched, Neil puts his left foot firmly on the surface five seconds after the start of his transmission "I'm going to step off the LM now." and six seconds before he starts to say "That's one small step." In June 2011, Journal Contributor Heiko Kueffen used the audio track that accompanies the restored video to revise times between 109:20:56 and 109:27:29. Except for the time of "That's one small step" and the transmission that follows - "Yes, the surface is fine and powdery" - there are no differences greater than 2 seconds between Heiko's analysis and the times then given in the ALSJ. I have repeated Heiko's analysis and confirm his results to within 2 seconds. In particular, Heiko gets 109:24:14 for "I'm going to step off the LM now." and I get 109:24:12. The difference is unimportant when compared with other uncertainties. My analysis is based on the time of hatch opening (given as 109:07:33 in the Mission report), which seems to be relatively certain.]...

109:24:48 Armstrong: Yes, the surface is fine and powdery. I can kick it up loosely with my toe. It does adhere in fine layers, like powdered charcoal, to the sole and sides of my boots. I only go in a small fraction of an inch, maybe an eighth of an inch, but I can see the footprints of my boots and the treads in the fine, sandy particles.

history.nasa.gov...

As for not being able to see "in the shadow of the LM:" excuse me, but why can we see Armstrong on TV? Could it possibly be because of all the light reflected from the surrounding surface that is in the bright glare of the Sun? Hm? Of course they could see "in the shadow of the LM," in precisely the same way as you can see in the shadow of your house!

reply to post by FoosM


I didn't watch the video. I skipped around it. If I wished that his account gets closed why do you think I made my post? If I really wished that I would've just kept quiet and flagged the video myself.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by FoosM

 

Notice, he was still holding on to the ladder, and offering a description of the surface without skipping a beat. What bad voice acting. Did you see him bend down to check his feet?

Busted again.

How am I busted?
To be clear, what exactly are you busting me on?

reply to post by FoosM

How am I busted?
To be clear, what exactly are you busting me on?

You were implying that Armstrong was describing his boot prints while he was still on the ladder, weren't you? In any event, since you can't see his face, how would you know he wasn't looking down?

Originally posted by PsykoOps
reply to post by FoosM

 

I didn't watch the video. I skipped around it.

Well you will have a hard time understanding the facts laid out in front of you if you skip around the subject.
How can anyone summarily dismiss what is being presented if they didnt watch the presentation.

Bringing one's fingers (thumb to index finger for example) together in a pressurized glove is very difficult and tiresome. One cannot feel what they are holding.

These facts renders the video of the astronaut Dave casually holding a falcon feather for more than 40 seconds, and being able to easily take it out of his pocket, improbable.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by FoosM

 

How am I busted?
To be clear, what exactly are you busting me on?

You were implying that Armstrong was describing his boot prints while he was still on the ladder, weren't you? In any event, since you can't see his face, how would you know he wasn't looking down?

No.
Please keep up with the conversation before making accusations.

reply to post by FoosM

These facts renders the video of the astronaut Dave casually holding a falcon feather for more than 40 seconds, and being able to easily take it out of his pocket, improbable.

In your opinion. On the other hand, there is a video of him actually doing it. Since the feather and the hammer fall at the same rate, it was obviously filmed in a vacuum. Even if the feather were made out of metal it would have fluttered in an atmosphere. So, whether or not it was done on the Moon or "faked" here on Earth, the sequence definitely takes place in a vacuum, so your opinion, frankly, is wrong.

reply to post by FoosM


I don't hold any particular interest in this aspect of the hoax debate. However watching that I do have some questions. I'm not an expert on this area but since you research this you might have some answers:

1) How is holding something thin with the tips of your fingers at all similar to holding tools or pressing buttons on camera? Why do you even bring those up in relation with this stuff?
2) Why would anyone give this Rene guy the real apollo glove? He says it's "#" cause he isn't given one but I sure as hell wouldn't give that guy anything of value.
3) How is this rig of Rene in anyway similar to the apollo gloves? Doesn't look like that to me but I don't have the specs to compare.
4) Is there a source for this rule about "double the material, quadruble the strenght"?
5) Why you use quotes from astronauts about the gloves to disprove they were there to begin with? If they were there and those quotes are true then your argument isn't. If they weren't there as you claim then those quotes are lies and can't be used in the argument as evidence.

Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by FoosM

 

So... you can't post a photo of an astronaut making a ten foot slam dunk on Earth in his space suit. Fail.

The space.com illustration is misleading to the casual observer because it contains :

1. A graphic representation of the sectionalized moon.
2. Elementary facts such as the temperature and diameter of the moon.
3. A human slam dunk comparison without any other weight considerations.
4. The 60 ft slam dunk is placed within the context of the moon landings.
5. The 60 ft slam dunk has no relation to the other content of the piece titled "Inside Earth's Moon".
6. The photo of Apollo 15's James Irwin suited up, allegedly taken on the moon, next to an American flag.
7. Pinpoint of the Apollo 11 landing site.
8. And the space.com logo.

My conclusion :

This is propaganda of the type which is called "cognitive disinformation" where a casual observer will view 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8, then draws an incorrect conclusion (or several incorrect conclusions) from the lay out of the graphic which was intentionally designed by space.com.

It's a really cheap piece of disinfo but it's also a *PERFECT* example of how disinfo is used all the time by the agents of NASA to perpetuate the myth of Apollo.

Ooor it's a simplified version of what's really going on for the purpose of general comprehension by laymen.

I disagree with your conclusion. I also laugh at your attempt to derive nefarious meaning from the layout, of all things. It's like certain parties' desperate attempts to say the astronauts should "look happy" at the press conference, and "look guilty" instead.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by FoosM

 

These facts renders the video of the astronaut Dave casually holding a falcon feather for more than 40 seconds, and being able to easily take it out of his pocket, improbable.

In your opinion. On the other hand, there is a video of him actually doing it. Since the feather and the hammer fall at the same rate, it was obviously filmed in a vacuum. Even if the feather were made out of metal it would have fluttered in an atmosphere. So, whether or not it was done on the Moon or "faked" here on Earth, the sequence definitely takes place in a vacuum, so your opinion, frankly, is wrong.

The video is fake. How could a metal object flutter? If that was the case, then the hammer should flutter as well. So no, the sequence does not have to take place in a vacuum. Although, there were vacuum chambers large enough to film that particular scene.