What is the solution to the illegal immigration problem in the US?

I have read tons of post about the pros and cons of the enforcement of the illegal immigration act in AZ. The main argument seems to be that AZ is wrong to pass a bill that would violate citizen rights to privacy and may cause racial profiling. While the arguments are valid, I have not read about any real solutions to the problem of illegal immigration. So here is my question ATSers:

What would be a good solution to the illegal immigration problem?

Examples of Possible Solutions (all of which have potentially controversial consequences):

1) Randomly check everyone in the states? Sending back those who are found to be illegal to their country of origin.

2) Make it compulsory for everyone in the states to prove they are citizens - (similar to the US Census going from door to door to make sure everyone responds to the 2010 count". sending back those who are found to be illegal to their country of origin.

3) Provide mass amnesty. If you are living and working in the states now, you are automatically a citizen. Issue everyone citizenship papers and social security cards.

4) Leave the problem alone and pretend it does not exist.

Open up all boarders? Treat the planet like a planet, not like 195 mini planets called countries.

Sound's like we are not the only country with this problem, unique article on China's illegal immigration issue......very good article


"As illegals, the Vietnamese are willing to accept salaries well below the minimum wage and are not protected by the Labor Contract Law. Moreover, their similar appearance allows them to blend in easily with native workers to avoid detection by Guangdong police.

The minimum wage for a low-level factory worker in the Pearl River Delta is reportedly around 1,800 yuan per month, with - thanks to the labor law - double overtime pay after eight hours of work and triple pay on holidays. But factory owners can hire unskilled Vietnamese labor for as little as 1,000 yuan a month while escaping overtime and holiday pay as well as other benefits now guaranteed to Chinese workers. They can also hire Vietnamese employees during peak season and fire them in low season without offering the severance pay to which Chinese workers would be entitled.

Thus, factory owners are understandably pleased with the deluge of illegal migrants seeking work in Guangdong; some even pay people smugglers to bring workers to their factories. As for the illegal workers, mostly farmers from Vietnam, they are happy to have a job that pays more than anything they could find at home.

Indeed, so agreeable is this illicit meeting of supply and demand in Guangdong that a number of Chinese academics have called on the government to allow foreign laborers to work in China. So far, these calls have been ignored.

Instead, Guangdong police claim to be cracking down on illegal labor. According to the official Xinhua News Agency, last year provincial police deported 180 foreigners who did not have valid work permits. So far this year, 53 illegal migrants from Vietnam have been arrested in Guangxi as they traveled on a bus toward Guangdong, and 66 others were seized on another bus in the Guangdong city of Zhuhai. Police also said they discovered 24 illegal Vietnamese workers in plastics factory in another Guangdong city, Qingyuan.

But these modest arrests no doubt represent only a drop in the bucket of illegal immigration in the Pearl River Delta".

Kent Ewing is a Hong Kong-based teacher and writer. He can be reached at [email protected].

(Copyright 2010 Asia Times Online (Holdings) Ltd. All rights reserved. Please contact us about sales, syndication and republishing.)




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reply to post by gandhi


As with all the possible solutions I presented this one has major flaws. The main one being if every country erased its borders we would need a one world government. This is not an acceptable solution for most people around the world (especially those in power in individual countries), but it would be great for NWO players (if the exist).

Couldn't Congress just authorize an "Illegal Immigrant Stimulus Package" which would guarantee them $75,000 immediately upon crossing the border back, and agreeing not to return under penalty of life imprisonment. Just a thought, after all haven't we just recently learned, it's only money the government will make more, right????

reply to post by freetree64


Nice find!

I have been wondering if the US was the only country who was experiencing illegal immigration problems. Of course no one in China is allowed to object to whatever anti-illegal immigration policies are dictated by the Chinese government. So at least in the US we have the freedom (seemingly) to debate the pros and cons of government action or inaction.

For a start the US could build a 50ft high wall along its border with Mexico extending out into the sea with a fortress at each end. Along the wall have watch towers. 100 metres inside the US side of the wall have a 30ft high wired fence line. Make it like a Prison wall. Prison walls keep people out as well as in.

The US Coastguard can patrol the seaward ends of the 'wall'. The Texas National Guard fly CAP along the wall. Have only ONE land entry gate from Mexico to the US and make it absolutely foolproof.

There is no sense trying to tackle the problem of illegal imigrants until the ''border leaks'' are dealt with. I dont think the US is too worried about the Canadian end of its territory to warrant a wall there.

Originally posted by gandhi
Open up all boarders? Treat the planet like a planet, not like 195 mini planets called countries.

Exactly. When america sees how we all live, under the violent thumb of a oppressive anglo american empire, why shouldn't americans also feel that oppression too.

You people love your rights as long as its you, what about all the others on the planet you laughed at being tortured by your government, and killed?

Originally posted by Wolftotem
reply to post by freetree64

 

Nice find!

I have been wondering if the US was the only country who was experiencing illegal immigration problems. Of course no one in China is allowed to object to whatever anti-illegal immigration policies are dictated by the Chinese government. So at least in the US we have the freedom (seemingly) to debate the pros and cons of government action or inaction.

Hell NO! The UK and Europe have been and are still experiencing this problem for years.

In a spirt of international cooperation and brotherhood, the U S
could decide to adopt the same immigration policies as
Mexico. How could they (Mexico) object to them being unfair, if they are their own policies? Here's one of the many ATS posts regarding that topic: (hint, many ATS'ers will not like Mexico's policies)

www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 29-4-2010 by manta78]

reply to post by Wolftotem


I think there are a number of viable solutions, but the first one has to be viable control of the borders. Worker permits, path to citizenship, outright amnesty, deportation, all of them are viable, but any of them need to start with a secure border.

The federal government has purposefully stalled on securing the border and has absolutely no credibility on the issue, which is the reason that the overwhelming majority of American's support the Arizona law.

They have a fence that separates North and South Korea, seems to work well. They had a fence dividing Berlin, that worked well. The Chinese built the Great Wall in the 7th century and it is 3,700 miles long. The Australiasns built the Dingo Fence and that fence is 3,488 miles long.

Folks have either built or have seen built or know someone who as built a fence. The fence could be built in a couple of years and built in a fashion that would put folks to work. Build the wall or fence and then we can talk about solutions.

How about we take the illegals and put them to work on the fence. Upon completion they receive a path to citizenship?

Originally posted by manta78
In a spirt of international cooperation and brotherhood, the U S
could decide to adopt the same immigration policies as
Mexico. How could they (Mexico) object to them being unfair, if they are their own policies? Here's one of the many ATS posts regarding that topic: (hint, many ATS'ers will not like Mexico's policies)

www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 29-4-2010 by manta78]

Hypocrisy works both ways. You could say that the Mexican government is hypocrite because they don't practice what they preach, I say show me a government that does. I know your point was to show how hypocritical government is (and they are) but you cant say the US gov is different by suggesting it do the same. After all there is only one nation in the world that brags about being morally superior to the rest of the world. You can't have it both ways.

Just enforce existing laws on immigration

We don't need ten thousand new laws on immigration.
Stop the nonsense about speaking English only, carrying national ID and all the other crap , most of it unConstitutional, that ATS is foaming at the mouth over.
All we need to do is enforce existing law and it's a Federal responsibility.
There is no other solution.
Illegal immigration was allowed to flourish to provide cheap labor for corporate America, no other reason. That's the reason that the Federal government has refused to enforce the law. Reagan gave millions amnesty, EVERY President and Congress has ignored it since.
It's all about money folks, as usual.
But really, ATS, we don't need to re write The Constitution or create new laws, Just stop the corporate lobby in DC.

The above is from my own thread on this subject.
You can't deal with the problem unless you understand the cause.
Of course Mexicans want a better life and Mexico is messed up.
That is irrelevant though. Corporate America has exploited the situation to gain cheap labor.
Sometimes I think ATS is like a cat chasing a laser pointer, you follow the shiney object, lose track of everything else. Get my point?
Ask yourselves why EVERY President since Reagan's mass amnesty has looked the other way on this, why ALL of them have had the same policy.
Think hard ATS! It's not ideological, it's profit.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by OldDragger]

All of you make valid points. I agree with many of them, even though many would find them controversial and unacceptable.

The real point of the thread is give those who are soooo opposed to how AZ is handling this issue to give their personal plans for a solution. Solutions that they and other citizens would find reasonable and that won't violate the rights of others. So far none of these people who are so quick to tell us how wrong AZ is have come forward to offer their opinions on a viable noncontroversial solution. So I will continue to wait and see if they have any input.

Personally, I don't think a 'viable noncontroversial solution' exists. It is one of those issues that is 'damned if you do, damned if you don't'. AZ has just chosen to make a choice and enforce it.

Maybe I should change the title of the thread to say: If you don't like what AZ is doing about illegal immigration - offer some other options.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Wolftotem]

You have to crack down on the employers. If it is made more expensive to hire an illegal worker than to hire a legal resident, business won't hire them. No jobs, no reason to come here. It would be simple if we didn't have idiot federal judges.

Whenever the company files their end of year pay statements (W-3s - which are the copies of W-2s given to employees plus a summary statement) the employee's name, birth year and social security number are matched against the social security database. A federal judge barred the Bush administration from sending "no-match" letters to employers saying that a person with an innocent mistake at social security may lose a job. Balderdash!

Send out the no-match letter. Give the employee and employer 120 days (4 months) to correct any erroneous information. If companies have a certain percentage or number of no-matches then go out and audit them personally. Fine them big if they have 20 workers with the same social security number. Send them to prison if they (like Tyson) are caught on tape ordering a certain number of illegals.

Make it expensive to hire illegals and companies won't.

Oh, and make the social security verify MANDATORY, not just "if you want to". It's simple and can be done in batches over the internet, by fax or by telephone. No reason not to demand it.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Mountainmeg]

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Mountainmeg]

reply to post by Wolftotem


Well fist you need to close the border and how you do that is place a maned post every 500 to 1,000 feet across the entire length of the almost 2000 mile border... those who are already here could be given amnesty or the option to go home... Just not citizenship... this high profile border closure wouldn't have to be permanent, five to ten years, long enough for the cartels to burn themselves out... BTW the cost of manpower would only be a fraction of what we already paid for the high tech fences and still just a drop in the bucket in DHS yearly budget

The incredible difficulty to legally immigrate and inhuman judging the Homeland Securtiy and USCIS use on people trying to get here LEGALLY.....i believe is what is causing the ILL-Legal problem.

My wife came here 3 years ago on a fiancee visa. It took 12 months, and nearly $7000 of filing and immigration costs. When you add up the fact that each time a foreign immigrant steps into a US embassy or even calls...they get charged anywhere between $50-100 depending on what they need. Legal representation cost nearly $3000.......and then you still have to file for greencard once they are here.....then renew it again 2 years later for marriage cases. This is only marriage cases.

For immigrants coming in on other cases like tourist, student, work. If you are a minority like "Young women". YOu will be denied 99.9% of the time cause the Dept. of Homeland Securtiy automatically classifies you as a hooker or a golddigger coming here to try and get married and dissapear. Heck, my co-worker from Canada had 70 year old parents whom just wanted to visit her for a wedding. Her parents live in Canada. They were denied!!.....What the heck were they gonna do?

Im telling you; The US needs to find a better way to handle Legal and lawful entry. IF they simplify it better and judge humanly.......there wouldn't be so much ILL-Legal immigration. Those whom have family here or would like to come here for better opportunities for either themselves or their families take the Chance at jumping the border or sneaking in.......cause they know that the Legal way of getting in is 1% chance and that is about it.

Just trying to keep my wife here on permanent residency is costing me an arm and a leg and extremely stressful for each process that we do.....I am extremely dissapointed and upset with the way our government handles immigration.

The Lions Phalanx

[edit on 29-4-2010 by The Lions Phalanx]

Solution 1). Close the borders of this country now! and the illegals that are here now are grandfathered in.

Solution 2). Close the borders now! and pick 3 months randomly out of each year and systematically round up all illegals in this country and take them to the boarder and release them in their own country of origin.

Solution 3). Close the borders now! and post signs in Latin all along the boarder as well as drop fliers in Mexico that any and all
trespassers crossing the border into the United States will shot on site!.

Now here are 3 possible solutions to the problem...personally I prefer number 1.

[edit on 4/29/2010 by CaptGizmo]

[edit on 4/29/2010 by CaptGizmo]

It doesn't matter what the proper solution is because this is all political now.

What is going to happen now is further victimization of illegal immigrants in the media, and especially from politicians who can see an advantageous angle in all of this.

Once Arizona has been fully vilified and illegals have enough sympathy there is going to be a major presidential and congressional push for Amnesty for all illegals in this country, and a simplified system for which immigrants can legally enter the country and exploit the US taxpayers even more.

Expect draft legislation on this very soon!

Elections are coming and there are many who would benefit from the Hispanic vote.

In fact they need it.

May not be the solution everyone wants but it really doesn't matter what we want... does it?




[edit on 29-4-2010 by Fractured.Facade]

Anything that stops people like this from being here!!