US Soldiers: the jackboots

23refugee:

Perhaps, my bad. I did note the compassion in your post.

With an all volunteer force, can you determine who serves from a sense of duty and who serves to gain some reward?

Thats a damn good question. Well even according to you, they all seek reward. The financial rewards of soldiering have always been better than anything else. It is "easy money". 2 or 3 years of your life and you will actually achieve something, as opposed to working in macdonalds.

The sense of duty is the problem. We in South Africa had the border wars, where the "threat" was on our physical borders. And the limpet mines in our stations and shopping centres. Conscription was in place, and all the school leaving boys did their duty as best they could. Conscientious objectors were either medics or prisoners. That was the choice, and many men i've known served honourably as medics.

In the US example, even the "duty" soldiers are revenge driven. That was implanted by TPTB. I think that 911 was clearly enough a false flag operation to perceive that it was intentionally designed to invoke that anger and revenge within the population.

It's the lies that TPTB tell. And how the "it's good to "serve"" lie is propagated by parents to this day. Not saying it's not good to serve, but serving in a hospital perhaps, is thousand fold more honourable than being a soldier, if only it paid the same.

reply to post by slambam


Your story i'm sure would ring true across hundreds of thousands of homes. Thank you for sharing.

But the point is this:
If there wasn't a great big war on somewhere, meth wouldn't have been your only option. You wee given an opportunity which did not exist in your community, to receive training and respect which was not available in your community.

From almost any perspective, you're a victim who has made the most of what you had. You'll go home a hero, and as you say, contribute as best you can.

But what if the navy recruiter was denied your home? What if you would get home with a pocketful of money and be told to go spend it in Iraq?

It's a whole systematic screwin over of everybody like you. Even you, if i may be bold, will tell kids what a good choice it was (for you) and the cycle would perpetuate itself.

It easy to blame the butchers, we the sheep must stop marching into slaughterhouses. And support each other in doing so.

reply to post by harryhaller


Just to clarify, I equate "sense of duty" and "righteous warrior" with those who would defend that which they already possess, as in defense against invasion. By no means do I feel that voluntary service demands respect greater than that afforded the common man. When I referenced situations that might cause many to enlist, I was attempting to point out the same traps you have, without incurring my country's flag-waving ire.

reply to post by harryhaller

I was never a victim. I made my life the way it was before I joined the military. No one to blame but myself. I sought drugs to escape the pain of a failed marriage, in which I was to blame.

I picked myself up along with a helping hand from the military. We are almost even in terms of paybacks.

I do get your drift and where you are coming from but blaming the military isn't the answer. I blame the human race for being blight on the Earth, but that doesn't get me very far in finding a solution.
Ya gotta start small. Start with your local community and work up. Just my 2 cents.

reply to post by 23refugee


Yes, i'm with you 100%, self defense is acceptable.

Slambam:

Curious perspective, but yeah, start at home. Thanks.

Oh and btw, I served the US Marine Corps from 94-98. You certainly have the right to say what you want about the military. We took an oath to defend the constitution. Hence, free speech and all that.

I certainly hope you aren't one of those crazy anti-war hippies that spits on vets.

That would have been a one way ticket to the ICU if that had happened to me while I was in...

reply to post by Darkrunner


Nope, i wouldn't do that. My old served, i stayed on a military base, i know too many good men who served. I know how it is.

Strangely, when i wanted to sign up, because i couldn't find work, they weren't recruiting whites ... LOL

But i see the same young faces each year ... just itching for violence, theirs or someone else's ... time to stop it ... you know?

My own thoughts are that you implement conscription, but non military. IE finish high school you got 1 or 2 years doing community service. Kennels, old age homes, hospitals, fire stations whatever.

**** the military, man! they break stuff! Especially people.

Sorry.....But

These soldiers are our Fathers, Mothers, brothers, & sisters out there fighting so that we sit here in our office and sip coffee comfortably discussing world topics and consperacy. THEY are not to blame!

Militaries around the world are taught from day one of bootcamp.....where they are stripped down of their character and habits......then built back up to be soldiers whom follow orders and complete their missions. That is not to say they are robots.....but they are thinking executors. Execute their mission. If you wanna rant and throw around blame......blame the leaders, the government, and the head war officials getting the intel and making decisions in the front office.

Soldiers are soldiers........they have been for 8000 years!

Blaming the soldier for war is like blaming the gun that you put to your head and pulled the trigger.

End of story.

The Lions Phalanx

reply to post by harryhaller


But it's a pipe dream. A world without war/violence.

As long as man covets what he hasn't got, be it someone elses oil, land, natural resources, there will be conflict.

To think that the world is going to wake up one day and ban warfare strains credulity.

Would it be nice? Hell yes!

Do I think it's being realistic? No.

Originally posted by harryhaller
So this thread will upset a lot of patriotic Americans. Boohoo. Moving along.

How is it that no bad can be said for "our boys"in the military. fighting for "freedom and justice" and a disability pension.

We moan and complain about a lot of things, the current world wide armed conflict which is sapping our energy, making enemies and just generally messing the world up for us, most of all.

But everytime i discuss these issues with specifically Americans, although the English and Australians too, i get told how wonderful these soldiers are, and what a brave, good job they're doing.

BS.

When will we be able to point our fingers at these soldiers and say: you are wrong, you are the enemy! For being the boot that crushes. Fair enough you're only a boot, and the man who wears the boot controls where the boots stands. But let's get real, while the "soldier" is glorified throgh drivel like AVATAR your sons and daughters will keep going to some exotic place to murder anyone deemed a "threat", and return either dead or disabled (mentally counts too). Nobody leaves war sane.

I'm not saying little Johnny is bad, i'm saying little Johnny is doing bad things. I'm saying somebody better take little Johnny and tell him to stop. Unfortunately, if you don't, when little Johnny gets back from the terrorist lands, he WILL be bad.

Conscientious objectors, WHERE ARE THEY? And why is this status quo encouraged by the very people that proclaim they want the troops out? If you want the president to bring the troops home, just don't give him any more troops?

Take the troops out, the military, not just a country. Bring them home. And take those stupid boots off!!!

Rant over. I really do want some answers here.

Your thoughts show how ignorant you are of the true nature of our world.

If it wasn't for those "jackboots", you would no the able to sit safely, and write such tripe without any fear of reprisal.

And, this also applies to people in other countries around the world, where the true dictators are only laying low because of their fear of the "jackboots".

Your view of a world where peace reigns supreme, (except for the USA), is INSANE.

Here is an experiment for you:

Step 1. Give yourself one month, where you consciously ignore, and stray away from ANY news or information that depicts the USA armed forces, or presences around the world, as negative.

Step 2. Scan the events going on all over the rest of our world. Human rights, war, female subjugation, racism, poverty, violence, etc.

Step 3. When the month is over, cross-reference what you have learned, with a list of places where the US is showing a presence, in an active conflict, receiving negative press, etc.

What you will see is:

1. The rest of the world is much more dangerous, hateful, archaic and backwards than ANYTHING going on here.
2. Most of the places that have aspects listed in "Step 2" are places where, either the USA is involved in conflict, or the USA is being vilified.

Without the "Hated USA", and our "jackboots", this world would literally be hell.

Too much high technology in the hands of barbarians and unchecked leadership.

If you were dropped into one of these other nations, you would last about a month after your first negative rant.

Originally posted by Darkrunner
Yes yes yes....this anti-war hippie # was done in Vietnam.

Nothing new to see here...

A) Why, when people speak out against war, do they get labelled as hippies?

I'm antiwar, and I'm not a hippy.

Is it just that it's an easy phrase to bandy about in an attempt to discredit any serious discussion?

So, it's in 'human nature' to wage war, huh?
It's not in my nature and I'm human and I know of other Homo sapiens sapiens that think along similar lines so I believe that 'War' is an aberration and goes against Human nature.

It's akin to smoking. It's a bad habit, is addictive and kills us in the end.

There are other ways, but we're lazy.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by aorAki]

Originally posted by aorAki

Originally posted by Darkrunner
Yes yes yes....this anti-war hippie # was done in Vietnam.

Nothing new to see here...

So, it's in 'human nature' to wage war, huh?
It's not in my nature and I'm human and I know of other Homo sapiens sapiens that think along similar lines so I believe that 'War' is an aberration and goes against Human nature.

edit on 29-4-2010 by aorAki]

Well, when you find a way to end warfare permanently on planet earth, you let us know. I, for one, welcome the idea...

reply to post by slambam


Sorry man but I do not by this story your spinning.........it was so early in the AM it was just BARLEY after dawn when TSHTF on 9/11.........I know this for a FACT because I was calling folks prior to 7am and waking them up to bring this to their attention. The pertegon was ON FIRE prior to 7am mnt time dude......
So in your 'story' a recruiter was in your home that friggen early to talk to a meth head who was high and most likely been up all dam night getting high? It would have to be the way I am laying it down for your story to be true.....

Your just telling made up stories here to be part of the conversation whether it true or not.........how sad.

Since the 9/11 attacks were taking place so dam early in the AM of that day I DOUBT any recruiter was blowing off what was going on in DC and NYC to go try and get a moronic methhead to join to 'see the light and join up'.....and its nuts to say the recruiter was at your house at near 5:30 so you could watch this together......GRANTED later in the day the towers fell.....but your saying with ALL THAT CRAP going down a recruiter was at your home? you think your THAT special hu?



[edit on 29-4-2010 by theRiverGoddess]

Originally posted by aorAki

Originally posted by Darkrunner
Yes yes yes....this anti-war hippie # was done in Vietnam.

Nothing new to see here...

A) Why, when people speak out against war, do they get labelled as hippies?

I'm antiwar, and I'm not a hippy.

Most of us all hate war. But, when blanket statements are made, and the warriors themselves are attacked, when they believe that they are protecting their people, it is not helping anybody.
It weakens the resolve of the warriors, creates self-hate, doubt, and in the end, turns large pieces of our society against the people that are trying to protect us.

Next thing you know, you DO now have soldiers that are doing things for no reason. Or, the wrong reason. Or, because the heart has been cut right out of them.

If there is another way to stop war, I am all for it. But, starting it by just attacking all military activities and people involved in those activities, is just irresponsible and malicious.

reply to post by harryhaller


Wow. You made my 'foe' list and its the first time I read one of your posts.

The US Military is the finest fighting force ever created, staffed by the best people ever mobilized.

The American People support them and their mission 110%.

Carry on.

Originally posted by Chakotay
reply to post by harryhaller

 

Wow. You made my 'foe' list and its the first time I read one of your posts.

The US Military is the finest fighting force ever created, staffed by the best people ever mobilized.

The American People support them and their mission 110%.

Carry on.

I would question the use of the words "finest" and "best people ever mobilized", especially considering the targets of the recruiters (low-socio-economic, given 'hope', easily mouldable....

It is obvious that not all American (lol, ego much?...perhaps 'people from the United States' would be better, but still questionable) people support them.

What is their 'Mission'?

For the record I do not support the Military of any country. The poor dupes in the lower echelons are as prey to the power of propaganda as the rest of the people.

A good start to get away from this violent and destructive mindset is to speak out against War and to try to show people that there are positive alternatives by your actions.

Old habits take a while to break.

Originally posted by aorAki

Originally posted by Chakotay
reply to post by harryhaller

 

Wow. You made my 'foe' list and its the first time I read one of your posts.

The US Military is the finest fighting force ever created, staffed by the best people ever mobilized.

The American People support them and their mission 110%.

Carry on.

I would question the use of the words "finest" and "best people ever mobilized", especially considering the targets of the recruiters (low-socio-economic, given 'hope', easily mouldable....

It is obvious that not all American (lol, ego much?...perhaps 'people from the United States' would be better, but still questionable) people support them.

What is their 'Mission'?

For the record I do not support the Military of any country. The poor dupes in the lower echelons are as prey to the power of propaganda as the rest of the people.

A good start to get away from this violent and destructive mindset is to speak out against War and to try to show people that there are positive alternatives by your actions.

Old habits take a while to break.

What are you talking about?
You see, this is exactly my point.

Do you honestly believe the world would be better without the military? Do you really think that without military forces, violence would go away? Or, even decrease?
The people that are responsible for creating wars are RARELY members of the military. And, speaking will never have any effect on these people. A lot of time, they are people disguised as officials that simply want the best for people. Like "liberals", just as much as "conservatives". Because, when it comes down to it, it is about personalities. Individuals.

And, as a former member of the military, I can tell you that your quick assessment of them is ignorant, close-minded and completely media-driven.

I think the key to my previous post is that 'old habits take a while to break'.

Yes, I do think the World would be better off without the military....imagine if the money that was spent on the Military-Industrial Complex was diverted to actually helping and enabling people!

Yes, it's an idealistic viewpoint at this stage, but I refuse to just bow down and say" oh well, can't change it, not even going to try".

[edit on 29-4-2010 by aorAki]

reply to post by aorAki


I think to change it, it would require a gutting of the political system, which wouldn't be a bad thing in my opinion. The one thing I have ever agreed with Glenn Beck about is his belief that BOTH political parties need to go.

Warfare is profitable these days. Halliburton, Northrup Grumman, Lockheed, General Dynamics....oh there is money to be made. And they are making out like bandits.

IMO, anyone owning stock, serving as an advisor to, or having relatives in any of these companies should be ineligible for public office of any kind.

That would be a start..

For those with the motivation to want change, I urge you to put that effort and energy into waking up the rest of the "sheeple", and the rest will take care of itself! There`s no need for a violent revolution! Just spread the knowledge and goodwill and people will learn to stop following these people who so obviously do NOT love them!


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