Mexico warns citizens in Ariz.

reply to post by broahes


I did read your reply and I answered it as best I could. If I left something out then please ask me again and I will be glad to answer.

reply to post by BoneyMaroney


I will also ask you this.. if it isn't harassment, then I'm sure you wouldn't mind, as a legal citizen, being asked for proof of citizenship while inside the border of your country..

Glad to know you value your freedoms as much as I value my toilet paper.

reply to post by broahes


No I would not mind it at all. I don't really see the difference between asking me for a drivers license, proof of insurance, and registration.

I don't see it as being any different than asking me for a social security card when I use certain government services.

It is paperwork. It isn't like they are drawing blood from me for a DNA test to compare to a database of DNA of legal citizens.

I will go one further. I thnk they should require us to show proof of citizenship/right to be here legally everytime we are stopped by police for violating the law, everytime we get government benefits, when we get a drivers license, when I go to the hospital and have no insurance, etc... Then no one can make a case that it is racial profiling if we all have to do it.

We have an immigration problem and this seems like a low cost common sense solution to the problem.



[edit on 27-4-2010 by BoneyMaroney]

reply to post by BoneyMaroney


So it's ok for the government to force its citizens to carry proper documentation out to the mailbox in the morning? walking the dog?

my point is.. I don't think it's ok, and I don't have a problem with you thinking that it is ok. That is why I live in the best damn country in the world.. where we can disagree but where I can still attain my freedoms.

We will have to agree to disagree.

Originally posted by Gamecock
reply to post by Wolftotem

 

It is difficult and usually too expensive for the "unskilled" laborers that are typically working in the US and sending money back home to their families.

*sigh* that is true.

reply to post by broahes


No it is probably not ok to have the government require that I carry proof of citizenship down to my mailbox in the morning. When am I going to carry it when I dont have any pockets in my jammies?

Furthermore, if I havent violated the law then the government has no right to ask me for anything on my way to my mailbox.

The law in AZ doesn't mean that a police officer can bust you on your way to the mailbox, if you have no outstanding warrants, etc... It just says you can be asked if their is reasonable suspicion. I don't know what I could do to cause reasonable suspicion on my way to the mailbox unless somehow I have decided to expose myself on the way their.

Do you carry your drivers license to the mailbox or when you walk your dog. I don't usually. I guess if they busted me for something and they needed my license then the simple solution is for them to take me to the house to get it for them. Seems easy enough.

What do you think they are going to do, think that I am illegal because my dog happens to be a Chihuahua? I doubt that is reasonable suspicion.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by BoneyMaroney]

reply to post by Violater1

The Mexican government is warning its people that if you are traveling to or through Arizona, that you could be harassed. I’m not sure, but is this aiding and abetting?

From the article:

Mexico warned its citizens living in or traveling to Arizona that they could be "harassed"

This isn't "aiding and abetting" I would warn them too if I was Mexico...stay away from Arizona...you may get detained.

Are you suggesting that a Mexican family can't take a vacation into the United States if they have all the proper paperwork and passports???

The United States issues these types of warnings all the time for their own citizens to stay out of certain countries because of potential dangers.

It just makes me so proud that now other countries have to warn their citizens about coming to my home, the United States, The Land Of the Free, because they may be harrassed and detained.

Because that is what I look forward to when I'm planning a vacation...I'm hoping to be detained.

reply to post by Violater1

I think they should keep their nose out of our business as well.

Oh...you mean how we keep our nose out of everyone elses business???


Pot/Kettle, Glass House/Bricks....take your pick.

reply to post by BoneyMaroney


I certainly agree with you on that note. We do have an immigration problem.

My concerns are simply that harassment of legal citizens could occur under this bill.. not that it will, and not that this bill legalizes harassment, just that it COULD happen.

My biggest concern is this bill's unconstitutional authority. The States have no rights over immigration laws. None. It is one of the few things the Federal government isn't overstepping it's bounds in (only under-stepping ). If the states want to take over immigration then the Constitution needs to first be changed to allow it. I personally wouldn't have a problem with that change being made.

Peace.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

Are you suggesting that a Mexican family can't take a vacation into the United States if they have all the proper paperwork and passports???

The United States issues these types of warnings all the time for their own citizens to stay out of certain countries because of potential dangers.

If they have all the proper paperwork and passports then what do they have to worry about. If they were asked for proof they would simply pull out their passports and proper paperwork and show them and then everyone would be satisfied and they would go about their day.

The United States never issued a warning that you may be asked for proper documentation when you enter a foreign country. They may have suggested that you keep your paperwork on your person in case you are asked for it, but that is just common sense.

So are you saying that every country I have been to that asked me for my passport and visa as I moved about their country were harrasing me? I just figured they wanted to know my whereabouts in their country since I am a visitor. Didn't feel like harrasement. Felt like a reasonable request.

If this Mexican family has reasonable access to their paperwork there is no possibilty of them being detained unless they broke the law.

reply to post by broahes


Well it seems to me that there is an easy fix to this. States could create laws (and probably already do have laws) regarding state citizenship. So the simple thing to do would be to base the individual state laws on that concept. Then it is not a federal issue, it is a state issue. Maybe Californians would love some more illegal immigrants and would be willing to take them off of the other states hands. I hear the Mayor of San Francisco wants to boycott AZ, maybe he would feel better if AZ just dropped a busload of illegals off to them instead of deporting them.

Originally posted by OnTheFelt

Originally posted by Violater1

Originally posted by OnTheFelt
reply to post by Violater1

 

Are they not correct in their assessment? I'm not saying I disagree with this new immigration law, I'm saying there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Mexican Government warning its people.

Say for instance, the shoe was on the other foot, would you not want your own government to warn you of such?

It is akin to having your look out, telling you where the cops are. If your not breaking the law, present your ID and then go your merry way.

Wow, so citizens from Mexico could never have a legal right to visit the US. Exaggeration much?

Your are exactly right. If you are not a citizen of the USA, you DO NOT have a right to enter. You must apply for the proper credentials
The same goes for a US citizen that wants to travel outside the US, you must have the proper paperwork. Just try going from the US to Mexico without the proper ID and see how far it gets you.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by Violater1]

Originally posted by broahes
reply to post by BoneyMaroney

 

I will also ask you this.. if it isn't harassment, then I'm sure you wouldn't mind, as a legal citizen, being asked for proof of citizenship while inside the border of your country..

Glad to know you value your freedoms as much as I value my toilet paper.

I have no problem with that.
And I have nothing to hide or fear.

reply to post by Wolftotem


I understand freedom and all that...and I don't like intrusions either....but having grown up in El Paso and having lived in Phoenix, New Mexico, Utah and now in Chicago, (more Mexicans here than in El Paso, actually), I MUST make a VERY blank statement here: IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE LEGAL (LET ME STRESS THIS FOR YOU IDIOTS WHO ARE NOT CATCHING THIS CONCEPT) legal< legal< legal.....IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO BE IN THIS COUNTRY AND WORK.....then YES...you should be thrown out....and I mean....dumped into a truck and HAULED OUT OF THE COUNTRY....or maybe 6 months in jail....hmmmmm......I guess that makes me a racist...huh? But I DIDN'T SAY MEXICAN'S should be thrown out...ILLEGALS....if you are from Ireland and are working as a bagger at the store....but DON'T have the LEGAL right to be here....then GET THE F**** out before we, (THE USA) THROW you out...nothing wrong with that "law" in MY mind

Personally...I could GIVE a flying F*** why you're here illegally....you want "amnesty" Then APPLY for it.......otherwise...good-bye....

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by Violater1

 

This isn't "aiding and abetting" I would warn them too if I was Mexico...stay away from Arizona...you may get detained.

Are you suggesting that a Mexican family can't take a vacation into the United States if they have all the proper paperwork and passports???

The United States issues these types of warnings all the time for their own citizens to stay out of certain countries because of potential dangers.

It just makes me so proud that now other countries have to warn their citizens about coming to my home, the United States, The Land Of the Free, because they may be harrassed(sic) and detained.

Because that is what I look forward to when I'm planning a vacation...I'm hoping to be detained.

I will try to answer your questions.
1: It is obvious that if you leave your country and go to another country, you better have the permission from that country. If you don’t…
2. you will be detained.
3. It is different for The State Department to issue warnings to it’s citizens when they are or could be in trouble ie: war, disease, natural disasters. Would it be difficult if I asked you to be reasonable? The State Department has issued no warning regarding, If you don’t have a legal right to be in country X you better stay away or they could “harass you.”
4. If you are planning a vacation into another country and do not have the proper paper work, I'm sure that Sovereignty will accommodate you.


[edit on 27-4-2010 by Violater1]

So we're seeing the Illuminati stir the pot. Turf War in the Southwest looks to be on the horizon. Could this be a provocation to justify the North American Union. The Peace savior and peace solution in the fabricating?

Originally posted by dbloch7986
I don't see anything wrong with this at all. Immigration is a tough issue because it involves lives, families and harships. I am not hateful towards illegal immigrants, but it is also not our fault they're here illegally. I mean if someone breaks the law by pulling a gun on a liquor store owner to get money for his mother who is dying of cancer, doesn't he still go to jail? He didn't hurt anyone. He just wanted to help his mom. But he still broke the law. Illegal immigrants broke the law. They may have done it for the most valiant of reasons, but the fact remains they still broke the law. Why take it easier on them than the poor kid who held up the liquor store.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Yep! End of reasonable discussion ...

What ever happened to the visitor worker program???


At the risk of stirring the hornets nest. But would that not solve the issue?

And you can't complain too much about that. Plenty of Americans do the same thing, just as Australians, Brits and other who want to spend a year somewhere.

And lets be honest its not just Mexicans, there plenty of central americans too, but the weird thing is Mexico has "problems" with central American nationals immigrants!! strange eh? but that more difficult as it is easier for them blend in.

At least you yanks when you approach a Latino ask for his papers and get a QUE? in reply you know what you're dealing with

There are those mexicans who wnat to go to the USA to live, and do it legally, and now most of them work for immigration at Chicago and Miami airport!!

Just as an example, my wife and I arrived to Miami the other day, entering as British Tourists. My wife holds a British passport. The Latino INS guy asked to see the baby, so my wife said to my son as she picked him out of the stroller,

Ven aqui chiquito!

The INS guy immediately asked to see her MEXICAN passport and visa!! and said that she needed her visa to enter. (she left it at home)

'Scuse me. BRITISH!, Visa Waiver, here for 2 days, ESTA cleared and everything.

I told her to speak English at all time when dealing with these bitter idiots.

We got it anyway!

Originally posted by Violater1
The Mexican government is warning its people that if you are traveling to or through Arizona, that you could be harassed. I’m not sure, but is this aiding and abetting?
Mexican President Felipe Calderon has said the law criminalizes immigration and opens the door to "intolerance, hate, and discrimination."
The new law prohibits undocumented workers from being hired from a vehicle on a public street.
Mexico's foreign ministry states, "Until it is clearly defined under what criteria, when, where and who the authorities will check, you should assume that every Mexican citizen could be harassed and questioned without cause at any moment."
Mexico is now dictating law to the USA. If they want something to pick, they can pick staying at home.
www.msnbc.msn.com...

Big Star an Flag to the OP.
Gee, but wouldn't an American face the save treatment in mexico? Can an American cross the border into mexico without papers? Ah, no. Would that same person be detained and questioned if caught in mexico without papers? Ah, yeah. How about if an American gets stopped by the mexican police in a traffic stop do you think that officer'll want to check your papers? Ah, yeah. So just what is the difference from what Arizona is doing? Nothing. So I guess the ambulance chaser rev. jackson should be marching on mexico too.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by Chance321]

reply to post by BoneyMaroney


"This is the same man who said it would threaten our relations with Mexico if they passed this law."

interesting point. It makes me wonder if the US allowing unfettered migration is somehow tied to Mexico's welcoming the US' corporate maquilladoras to their country (sort of a one hand washes the other). Having said that, with so many of our jobs gone south, why aren't more nationals staying home?
US citizens lose both ways.