The Sky Was Black On The Moon?

For crying out loud, what the hell do you want from me?

In the simplest of terms, I meant that if man were never to ask 'Why or What if?" There would be no NASA question!!!!!!!!!!!!
No technology.........NOTHING!
An never ending primitive society!

Not a good thing!

When monkey A discovers using the stick = more bugs...yum, the others didnt get it, it was against received wisdom on the most basic level. Most animals will imediately ostracize the one acting out of the usual way of things FACT.

Man with the ability to communicate can use speech to discourage and dissuade those who stray from the path.

In true 2001 Kubrick style we now find ourselves much further up the technological ladder, NASA didnt build the whole ladder, or invent steps or the wheel.

Oh Im sorry, is this the bible ?

In the beginning there was NASA, NASA separated Canaveral from the waters and the space program was born, shortly after some God dude did some # with water and beasts of the field, but Im sure he came to nothing.

Poch mahon!

reply to post by Havick007


I think your point is with the idea that at high altitudes one should be able to see stars during the daytime. Well lets take a look at some video footage of this and see.

Project Excelsior. Joe Kittinger balloon jump

Joe Kittinger Freefall - Skydive from 31km (102,800ft)

Lockheed U-2 Flight - 70,000ft

MIG-25 - Edge of Space Flight

There are plenty more video's available to look at with all the amateur balloon cams going up. The point here is that we can not see any stars during the daytime even in the space around the Earth.

It all depends on what your looking for that determines what you'll find. If you are looking for evidence that NASA faked the Moon landings then chances are you will never find any logical answers to any of the questions about what can and cannot be seen/photographed.

For me it is logical to make the assumption that we did in fact land on the Moon yet I cannot prove this without a doubt to anyone. What can be proven is that stars cannot be seen nor photographed normally during the daytime on either the Earth or the Moon.

reply to post by Havick007


Those two photos, taken ~40 years apart.

The more 'colorful' one was photographed by the crew, as they orbited, but prior to TEI burn.

The grayscale version is from the LCROSS camera, or the LRO, if you prefer. Just from earlier this year, or from late last year.

The crew of Apollo 17 photographed their landing site, as they orbited overhead. Before they started back 'home', to Earth.


Some 40 years on, we have (finally) a camera onboard the LRO, that while the mission was NOT to merely photograph Apollo landing sites, it was a side benefit of the technology on board.

[edit on 21 April 2010 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by Devino


Yeah fair enough but i'm not just posting my opinion here, i am quoting and also provided the link to an interview with Col. Rick Graham who flew Blackbirds and has written many books on his experiances.

All i did was do some research and post my finding's. Why could he see stars at high altitude during daytime flights?

reply to post by Devino


Also remember you are using video footage as your findings yes? can video footage pick up stars campared to the human eye? As i have said earlier to capture stars even at night you need to overexpose film. do you think that happened in the video footage.
I was only posting quotes and links to the interview with an actual pilot that made that statment. It was my opinion but my finding's that's all.

I am not here to make statements of opinion, but research and provide what i find that's all.

So are you saying Rick Graham was lying?

For WeedWhacker:

No intention to go off-topic but why do you think there were such glaring mistakes in that Apollo 13 movie WW ? Only just heard of this recently, they mention the overflight of Fra Mora highlands, was it just such a mistake.

The piece also made light of the temperature inside the craft and the fact that the cobbled together asnwer to the filter problem could not have worked.

I find it hard to believe that there were such glaring mistakes 'in the movie' but thats where that stays, it exerts no influence on my apollo queries.

reply to post by Devino


I have just found more comments and this regarding your Mig's.

The first batch of pilots to be trained were Wing Commander A.J.Singh, Squadron Leaders D. Lazarus, S.L.Sud, J.S. Grewal, besides Flight Lieutenants R.E.Ketkar and Lt B.S.Khalsa.

"When you fly at those altitudes there's a sudden change in environment. Now, you see the sky as blue, when you go to those heights the sky is dark. You can see the stars during the day-light, you can see the curvature of the earth. Then you suddenly feel you don't belong to this earth, you don't want to come down to land. You want to stay there. There's a distinct feeling of aloofness that you don't belong to this earth," said Air Vice Marshal J.S.Grewal (Retd), one of the pilots of the pioneering batch, which trained in the then Soviet Union.

Master Warrant Officer (MWO) Desraj, the technical maintenance person who received training in the USSR and has served with the aircraft ever since said that he had no words to express his feelings. He was emotional on account of the decommissioning as he had seen the aircraft right from the beginning and had served in it.

Six of the eight MiG25s will be flown to the National Defence Academy, the Air Force Academy, AFS Kalaikunda, AFS Hindan, AFS Palam and AFS Jodhpur to be installed and preserved as heritage pieces to inspire future officers during training. Two were lost in accidents.

Read carefully especially in regard to seeing stars in daylight at high altitude.

Here is the link, it is not an article but a forum regarding flight and Mig 25's

forums.bharat-rakshak.com...

Enjoy

If you want i can keep looking for more articles. You know google is great, just search your question and follow the rabbit so to speak

reply to post by Tie No Bows!


I believe the movie, (**) Apollo 13 directed by Ron Howard, starring Tom Hanks (and I think produced by Hanks, a long-time space buff) was as close to accurate as possible.

I HIGHLY recommend the HBO series "From The Earth To The Moon", it's available from Amazon, or other venues. It is a wonderful series, (twelve parts)...again produced by Hanks. (Although I wasn't entirely kicked in the head by the last episode...oh, well...)

Just finished reading the biography of Gene Cernan, Last Man On The Moon. Great personal accounts, from a man who ACTUALLY was there.

Another recent book is Rocket Man, focuses on James Webb, former NASA Administrator. Within the narrative, MORE good stuff, behind-the-scenes accounts.

People who spend all of their time online, getting their SOLE source of "information" fromt he web, are missing out.

GO READ A FEW BOOKS!!!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(**) Astronaut Gene Cernan, in his biography book, mentions the movie "Apollo 13". He heartily recommended it.

His words were something similar to, "Don't go see a 'horror' movie, go see Apollo 13, for drama and tension."

HE knew, as well as any other Astronaut of that era, what happened. IN FACT, he makes mention of the O2 tank assembly that was REMOVED from his spacecraft (Apollo 10) and installed on the CSM that flew as Apollo 13!!!

He had his own dangers, of course....but that sort of thing was not made public, back then....(continued Congressional funding was important....remember...)


[edit on 21 April 2010 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by Devino


Also i am not at all debating the moon landing. My opinion on that is that even if it was faked in 67/68 there have been plenty of chances to go back since then. We have many 100's of kilo's moonrock that is shown to be 200 million years older than Earth rock.

I'm not at all fussed what happened with the first or last landing's. We have been there one way or the other.

My interest is in the star thoery. Maybe they didnt land there the first time but have since then, but had to keep the lie of not seeing stars as that was the first statment they made, but since then they have realised that stars are visible from the surface.

The blackbird pilots saw stars in daytime flights and now after looking we find so have Mig 25 pilots in daytime flights. Thanks btw i didnt realise Mig's could fly that high but we found they also saw stars I am reading interviews and first hand accounts. Do you really beleive your linke footage would have been able to pick up stars? Go outside even at night and try to video stars, see how much luck you have

Look i am not trying to be a pain i am only researching pilot accounts of what happened.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by wmd_2008

 

Most excellent comparison, with a great photo!!

If I had the authority to 'applaud', I would...

ALL credit goes to jra he posted it first before I got the chance to do the same thing

reply to post by DJW001


Maybe at that time they thought they wouldnt be able to see the stars in daylight. So they went with that theory, but since then they have discovered that is not true but if they changed the story on stars they would have to admit that Apollo 11 was a lie.

reply to post by Havick007


NOPE!

Please, STOP spreading this disinfo!!!

We have many 100's of kilo's moonrock that is shown to be 200 million years older than Earth rock.

Baloney.

STOP it, please.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Clarify...YES, we have about 862 pounds, so hundreds of kilos....but they are NOT 'older' than Earth rocks!!!!!!

Period. This is bogus information, and is continually spread on the Internet.

[edit on 21 April 2010 by weedwhacker]

Actually I spend most of my time in the workshop as an antidote to the mind numbing boredom my disability saddles me with, the internet in all its facets is what I watch as the meds kick in and I kill time till my legs feel better and I can get back into the workshop.

Needless to say, theres a lot of those 'what happens if' projects.

Did you know Pine Gap Australia was built in 1966, what if the moon landing was streamed there and relayed to satellites back to Parkes Australia.

As we know the live feed from Apollo 11 was first relayed to Parkes receiving station in Australia and then to the world.
Who know's maybe it was was even filmed in the Australian outback near pinegap and uplinked to Sat and back to Parkes.

I have to admit i never used to think the moon landings were faked ( the first one ) but the star issue is starting to get to me.

how can Blackbird / Mig 25 pilots see stars in daytime flights but with 0 atmosphere the astronuats cant see them from the moon.

As i have said maybe the first landings were faked, and they originally assumed that stars would not be visible from the lunar surface. Since then they have realised that is wrong but to admit that now would show the original landings were not real.

reply to post by Devino


Devino

Video may not show the stars your eyes probably would in those situations as long as you looked into a totally black area and let your eyes adjust the exposure on video would be to short most likely.

reply to post by Havick007


This link if you get it to open shows the trace recorded by Jodrell Bank Radio Telescope of the Apollo 11 landing you can even see when Armstrong took manual control of the lander.

www.jodrellbank.manchester.ac.uk...

The Apollo missions were watched and tracked by amatuers as they went to the Moon even schoolkids in the UK.

reply to post by weedwhacker


It's not disinfo, why do you say that? I have researched this as well.
I am no debunker i am kind of agreeing with the form here buddy.

en.wikipedia.org...

It is shown through many independant test's what moon rock's consist of and ageing. I almost posted a thread asking why moon rocks are much older than Earth rocks but after researching the issue i found out why.

Many 100's million's of years ago there was amssive collision with Earth and a Mars sized planet ( maybe Nibiru )and after the collision we have the moon and the majority of the moon is made up of the prota planet's rock.
Although i am of the opinion that the moon may have been placed there at some time in the past as well. Either way it's show's the moon or its rock evolved in a different place to the Earth. There have also been test's done to show that UV effects on the moons rocks is different to ehat our own sun could do, which also may show that the moon may have come from a different solar system. 200 million years older than ours with a sun that had adifferent uv effect on it's rock.

Hang on....if the moon rock is way older then Earth, how do we stand that against the theory that the moon was in fact part of earth at one time, having been smashed off in some past collision, with corresponding dent and deep gash where we now have the Pacific Ocean?

When you ask today if theres water on the moon, youll get laughed at, as they say of course there is, astroids/comets etc...blah, blah, blah. Yet not so long ago we were told that the moon was dead and very dry, with no chance of ever finding water.

reply to post by Havick007


READ the books, and the personal accounts of the Astronauts.

YES, they could see stars, IF their eyes were adapted...

Sheesh. Try this, experiment for yourselves.....

GO TO a stadium, a night game (Soccer, Football, whatever) and try to see the stars overhead, at night. WHEN the very bright stadium lights are on.

Now, imagine you are in a capsule, in space, wiht limited windows to look outside.

The INTERIOR lights are on, inside your capsule.

OK? Now, use your Earthly experience with your automobile, make that the "stand-in" for the space capsule.

Go out, at night, in your car, and park under the stars. TURN ON all of your interior lights, and look out your windows, from inside the car, at the stars in the night sky.

Are you getting it, yet?

THEN< turn OFF all light pollution sources, let you eyes adjust, may take five to ten minutes (maybe longer), then look at stars.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Havick,

Not that fact can compare to opinion, but the Apollo 11 landing was July, 1969.