MSM has lost it - they did that Timothy McVegh today on Msnbc

Originally posted by Diplomat
I don't think that guy was necessarily defending Timothy McVeigh, he was simply pointing out that the media never really explains the real reason behind things. They just want the public to think he's "crazy" and that's the end of it.

the real reasons behind things?


His frustration was not crazy, his actions were... A sane man would not believe that
indiscriminately killing people would change the disfunction of a government.

OP, McVeigh was a criminal and a sociopath, no different than the fools who blow themselves up in the mid East. There is no difference but his place of birth, language and name. If you love America than surely you must also love the Democratic process
set forth by the founding fathers? IT is clear McVeigh did not love the nation, its rules,
conventions and process.

REST IN PISS Tim,

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

I mean, it's a news station right?

Second line!

reply to post by K J Gunderson


Because it's a teaser trailor, every form of media does that. It isnt a fair thing to do but every form of media does that to promote whatever they're selling. Why now, why this time is this a big deal and shocking? Is it because its the MSM? Why dont we all just state the obvious that were trying to smear the MSM. Why else call them out on something every other single form of media has done since the beginning of time.

Even boards on here do better with eye catching headlines, same thing.

I remember when 'Enchanted' was coming out. With the trailor there was a part when the prince guy is running away from the lady bus driver and he makes a scared 'uuurgh' noise, and I thought that was so funny. Guess what, it isnt in the movie, and as nerdy as this is I was disappointed because I freaking loved that, it made me laugh.

Many mentions of the 15th anniversary of the bombing on all networks today.

Didn't see anything at all about Waco. It's the 17th anniversary of the Government murdering 2 pregnant women and 20 kids.

I also want to mention that 169 people died because of Oklahoma City. Tim McVeigh was the last casualty.

Originally posted by cepheusdraco
McVeigh was a CIA shill if you ask me. Same tactics they've been using since JFK's assassination.
[edit on 19-4-2010 by cepheusdraco]

It seems to me, that I'm on a conspiracy website. It also seems to me that the actual damage created by the blast was in excess of the explosive force capable of the materials that were claimed to have been used. (ammonium nitrate fertilizer bomb in the back of a standard sized Van.)

Now I am not in any way supporting the use of these tactics on women and children. I am also not claiming he did it, or didn't do it. What I'm saying by this post, is that the MEDIA is again lying to us, to present things in the way they want it to be presented. See other posters comments to the twisting of the words...

When it happened, I was appalled as anyone, when Waco happened, I was appalled as anyone as well. But since this IS a conspiracy site, I have to ask why, outside of what the media has presented do we accept the circumstances as presented? Certainly not because he "admitted" it, the CIA can make you admit pretty much anything they want... thoughts?

..Ex

Originally posted by v3_exceed

Originally posted by cepheusdraco
McVeigh was a CIA shill if you ask me. Same tactics they've been using since JFK's assassination.
[edit on 19-4-2010 by cepheusdraco]

It seems to me, that I'm on a conspiracy website. It also seems to me that the actual damage created by the blast was in excess of the explosive force capable of the materials that were claimed to have been used. (ammonium nitrate fertilizer bomb in the back of a standard sized Van.)

Now I am not in any way supporting the use of these tactics on women and children. I am also not claiming he did it, or didn't do it. What I'm saying by this post, is that the MEDIA is again lying to us, to present things in the way they want it to be presented. See other posters comments to the twisting of the words...

When it happened, I was appalled as anyone, when Waco happened, I was appalled as anyone as well. But since this IS a conspiracy site, I have to ask why, outside of what the media has presented do we accept the circumstances as presented? Certainly not because he "admitted" it, the CIA can make you admit pretty much anything they want... thoughts?

..Ex

A seven thousand pound bomb is not enough

How much is?

This special is comprised of audio tape with a JOURNALIST, not CIA

IF you heard the audio it sure sounds like he was very proud of his prowess and his grand achievement. You cannot interrogate detachment into people BTW

I am reading something between your lines, what am I picking up on there?

Originally posted by VintageEnvy
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

Because it's a teaser trailor, every form of media does that. It isnt a fair thing to do but every form of media does that to promote whatever they're selling.

I understand that. That does not mean that I have to just accept it. I am more than happy to enlighten people as to what his real statement was because I believe the reality of what he SAID is more important than MSNBC ratings.

Why now, why this time is this a big deal and shocking?

Can you show me a recent and comparable example?

Is it because its the MSM?

Well...if it was Prisonplanet or Rense then I would not really care. I expect them to lie to me.

Why dont we all just state the obvious that were trying to smear the MSM.

It is not a smear when you are pointing out a sin comitted by someone else. They did wrong. Pointing that out is a smear? You admit yourself this is common practice. Why are you defending it?

Why else call them out on something every other single form of media has done since the beginning of time.

Show me all the other "DOCUMENTARIES" that are made USING THE PERSONS OWN WORDS that has been promoted with such distortions. You have said it twice now so you must have all kinds of easy to find examples, right? I cannot wait.

Even boards on here do better with eye catching headlines, same thing.

When was the last time you saw someone claiming to be a time traveller, alien, or reptilian on any MSM NEWS station? How can you compare a repository for imaginary building on mars pictures to any of the news channels - even fox!

I remember when 'Enchanted' was coming out. With the trailor there was a part when the prince guy is running away from the lady bus driver and he makes a scared 'uuurgh' noise, and I thought that was so funny. Guess what, it isnt in the movie, and as nerdy as this is I was disappointed because I freaking loved that, it made me laugh.

Are you even serious? You are comparing a movie trailer to an advertisement for a documentary? Did you think "Enchanted" was supposed to be real? Was it promoted as real footage or a true story and I missed that?

You did not even mention the tire in the "Twister" trailer that was not in the movie, lol. That was a big one. Movie trailers are ads for... you know... MOVIES.

This is an advertisement for a documentary that is specifically made up of HIS OWN WORDS. That was in the title. It was the theme of the whole thing. HIS OWN WORDS. It was advertised as the TRUTH and it was NOT the truth.

I am still scanning IMDB for any reference to "Enchanted" being a documentary, based on a true story, re-enactment, or anything remotely close. Can you help me out or do you realize how silly a comparison that is yet?

Originally posted by Janky Red
A seven thousand pound bomb is not enough

How much is?
This special is comprised of audio tape with a JOURNALIST, not CIA
IF you heard the audio it sure sounds like he was very proud of his prowess and his grand achievement. You cannot interrogate detachment into people BTW
I am reading something between your lines, what am I picking up on there?

Although I am not an explosive expert, each kind of explosive has a finite amount of actual energy that it can produce unless it sets off secondary and tertiary explosions. I have heard some conspiracy banter that this kind of explosive material (ammonium nitrate) wont produce the energy required to have caused the damage to The Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building that it obviously sustained.

Now, since this is a conspiracy site everyone chanting "he did it he did it" and getting all of their available opinion from the Media just doesn't cut it for me. For me, the emotionally filled response I have received from any person who ever discusses this has the ring of pure brainwashing. Add to the that the fact that the building was demolished within a month, and Tim McVeigh was executed so readily...well it does make one think... But again, I'm on a conspiracy site so this kind of thinking shouldn't be out of line....or so one would think..

..Ex

Any discussion about Timothy McVeigh should include the fact that the FBI and the ATF and others were complicit in the OK city bombing. Tim McVeigh was a patsy along the lines of Lee Harvey Oswald.

While Tim McVeigh was working for the federal government in some covert capacity, he was sacrificed as a patsy to get blame for a crime which he did not do on his own and for a crime which was not only done by the federal government, but was also covered up by the same folks that should have conducted a lawful investigation and concluded that the OK city bombing was an inside job committed by the federal government for the purpose of stigmatizing the State Militias that were aggressively moving the majority of States to invoke the 10th amendment provision which allows states to opt out of a federal mandates that are deemed to be unconstitutional.

While I expected the MSM to give some coverage to the OK city bombing and to Timothy McVeigh, I did not expect them to inform the public about the truth that Tim McVeigh was not the brains for OK city bombing and as such was just a patsy offered up the those that controlled him and used him to act as he did all the while he was thinking he was doing what his government wanted him to do.

Tim McVeigh was a so called self declared patriot doing what he thought was expected of him by his controllers and although the covert operation was an act of terrorism, this act was not the brain child of Tim McVeigh and he did not act alone.

Witnesses reported ATF removing live bombs from inside the Murray Bldg after the bombing that did not go off. Since the building was exploded out, the bogus fertilizer bomb blew out and into the building, but it was the inside bombs that brought down the building and killed innocent women and children for the sake of some political agenda that Bill Clinton was pursuing.

Any mention of Oklahoma City bombing needs to include the fact that the FBI, ATF and others were involved with the crime and anyone who thinks I am exaggerating needs to get informed. To help in that process, visit the following site and get informed on what went down at Oklahoma that fateful day, April 19th, 1995.

Enjoy the link and get ready to be informed: www.apfn.org...

Thanks for the posting.

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by Ahmose

 

Well that would still certainly not make killing 100's of innocent people justifiable?

Anyway, I read some stuff online a while back that basically stated TMV was a pawn in all this, but would need to find this material again to reference. It was pretty convincing.. but that doesn't mean much of course.

No,
Definitely not justifiable, in any way.

but the people have the right to know the truth about it...
that it was their own government who helped it happen.

you are right, he was a "pawn"...
and the CIA knew full well about all of it,
... even helped assemble the explosives...

Let us not hear that on any news channel though.
not important.


i still think the guy is a worthless scumbag..
shoulda made that clear i guess...

not defending him, or think what he did was right in anyway..
just that none of us have the full story,
of why/how he got that way.
any of us who thinks they do know ...
are the ones who needs to grow 'sense'.


[edit on 19-4-2010 by Ahmose]

[edit on 19-4-2010 by Ahmose]

reply to post by MaxBlack


Thank you for this link. This is exactly the kind of thing that I was referring to. There is soo much more than we know about this, but if we just listen to the media, well..we all know how that goes...

..Ex

Originally posted by TheOneElectric
People defending that idiot.

I hope you all grow some sense one day. That man fair gamed men, women, and children. There is no excuse for that nonsense. He was a terrorist with a disturbed ideology, and to say anything but is simply arguing for the sake of political dissent.

Ya what a bastard! Children = fair game?! Maybe if he would have been a good american and looked to our governmetn not in blame but as an example then he would never have wanted to kill women and children! Because the government he was acting out against would NEVER harm a woman or a child! Yeah, that`s it! our government NEVER poisons its own citizens with crap in the food and water and on the tv and radio... NEVER! THAT`s just... CRAZY!! No our government would never bomb us, its much more effective to kill us slowly so they can make as much money as possible off of us. No I am not defending mcveigh and neither is anybody else. I can`t speak for anyone else, but I for one will not stand by and nod my head in agreement while Satan points the finger at Beezlebub... it`s a bunch of hypocritical bs and you know it. "oh but when WE kill people it`s in the name of freedom! when someone else does it, they are doing it in the name of... evil, yeah and uh... crazy stuff. ya lots of crazy stuff! you believe us right?"

to MaxBlack.

Great post...great link.

For anyone wanting to know the truth, just go to the link provided by MaxBlack and watch "Rare Footage" of the videos and ask yourself this question....

If there was a bomb that was exploded from a truck sitting "outside" of the building, why was there no debris on the remaining roof of the building?

The blast would have peeled the building "outward" sort of like a beer can, but there is no debris on the roof.

Think about it.

It is obvious that the blast came from "within" the building.

peas

Well, as far as murder maybe concerned, I find it troubling how so many will cling to calling a McVeigh a terrorist and yet I often wonder who really set the bomb off in the first place, as did Gore Vidal. Did the FBI bungle the case, most certianly. Did loose ends ever tied up? Nope. IN fact I would say these recent TV Video Hack jobs are looking like the proof everyone was waiting for. Why else would one need to make it look like he said something he didn't say, unless you screwed up in the first place, you'd have no reason to paint over the picture.

So they didn't catch the others, well maybe the others were working for the government as McVeigh orginally alleged until he got his story straight, when he realized that he could claim sole credit for something and give himself meaning. I think he was far from crazy, in fact he was probably very aware of "collateral damage" in his service during the Iraq war. Does the fact he did this on the same day as Waco not explain a little? Does the fact that he claimed to learn from the best baby killers in the US?

Where else could one go about killing people with a clear conscious except in the field of government, afterall Albright was clear when she said that killing a couple hundred thousand children in Iraq during the sanctions was "worth it". What kind of sick twisted person would claim such a thing and then have the temerity to call McVeigh some kind of terrorist for killing nowhere near as many human children lives? Where does it become acceptable to kill any children in the first place...I can think of one field, that being military work. Now if they can kill children, why couldn't someone fight back against someone that murdered that many children ,and why would fighting back in reaction to the murder be terrorism but not the murder by the government in the first place?

If they are not held accountable for the sick actions of Waco why should anyone care about the workers in their buildings then? Obviously burning and killing babies and children are par for the course, but he even stated he didn't know of nay children being in the building, of the two actions Waco and OKC which seems most destructive of liberty and most careless? Which appears sane as anyone might react to some thug murdering their children or even just raping them? OKC was done in reaction, WACO was premeditated and planned and bungled. Do you really blame someone for going after baby killers? Would a soldier blame the Iraqis for coming after them? I think a soldier would respect it, they know those people already hate them, if they have studied history and know what has happened, and whom has done it to them, I wouldn't blame them, they have lost far more than most Americans sitting on their sofas have ever even imagined. How would we feel about them if they had done the same to our children?

Somebody wants to make McVeigh into their overgeneralized stereotype of "rightwing" Americans but I don't see any political point of view that would quibble with defending or fighting back against people that attack and kill children to fulfill some political agenda and do so in the light of the day, if anything looks like a declaration of war against the public, WACO surely fits the bill...would it even bother anyone that OKC happened if it was your kids gassed and flamed to death, or that it was done to many more? Somebody has to protect kids from crazy nut jobs in the government, and naturally they will leap to paint that person as the projection of themselves that they are unconscious and unaware of how they show themselves ot appear. Why else would one lower the debate towards twisting the guy's words, I mean sure anyone could do that with anything said by Reno or Clinton, but they wouldn't pass it off as news or straight unbiased coverage. To do so makes you an enemy of not just the public but those children burned to death at Waco, in fact for someone to do such a thing signals they are ok with the government wiping out Iraqi children as well....just one more service being rendered in the service of being an arm of the government and not a watchdog.

Waco and the New Brown Scare

The Meaning of Timothy McVeigh by Gore Vidal

Just got to say how ridiculous it is that the MSM won't touch any of the loose ends regarding the OKC bombing even after so many documents have been released via FOIA over the years while, as I type this, the MSM is knee deep in whether or not that iPhone found in a bar could have been an intentional plant and this TV producer killing his wife.

Those are the things the MSM just has to investigate relentlessly. OKC? Not so much. Just report on the governments press release and move on to the next Dancing with the Stars results show.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

You can twist it anyway you want but Tim McVeigh is not a patriot who is being preyed on by the media. He is a murderer, terrorist who killed American women and children due to his right-wing reactionary delusion. What scares me is that he sounds alot like some of these tea party people.

This is a classic Maddow/MSNBC hack piece designed to paint anyone who disagrees with the policies of the current administration with the same brush used to paint McVegh.

I am now a right wing extremist who poses a threat to security

reply to post by drwizardphd

He was a terrorist. A radical right-wing terrorist. It sounds ugly, especially if your political leanings tend to the right, but that's the cold hard truth.

He was a patsy, friend, just like Oswald and a few others. No way a fertilizer bomb could take the front off that building, and witnesses heard secondary explosions, and I remember some kind of explosives expert saying it was a small yield nuclear device.

Do your research, the leader of the militia group he belonged to was an FBI plant, and the bombing was a Black Op.

The bomb did not take off the whole front of the building.
The bomb only took out the supports across the front and about three floors up.
The rest of the front collapsed because it was unsupported.

Also 13 of the barrels were filled with ammonium nitrate and nitro-methane.
this is a more powerful explosive.
The other 4 had the less powerful ammonium nitrate, diesel mix.
www.wnd.com...
www.wnd.com...

I don't think even McVegh expected the amount of damage to be what it was.
I think he expected to blow the front walls in and kill anyone standing or working in the rooms facing the bomb not to bring down the whole side of the building.

reply to post by damwel


What scares me more maybe your indifference to suffering, that of the children at Waco and those that are being manipulated by the government and the smartest guys in the room over at Wall St.

The word terrorism has multiple meanings thanks to our Orwellian propaganda machine, when does it ever become not a crime to defend yourself from being murdered or your children or somebody elses kids?

People should be able to protest anything they want and should not be charged with sedition for not agreeing with lying politicians or murdering thugs, if you want to live in a corrupted police state maybe you should go try it in Mexico first and see how protesting that situation goes.

McVeigh was invoking the ancient but lost on many principle of returning the screw, does that mean he wants violence? No. An equal and opposite reaction seems a law of nature, you expect the world to be tied up into neat little packages and oversimplifications that make everything appear safe, but this planet has been through 200 mass extinctions, it cares not for our lives...that maybe what nature explains in her details if you care to notice.

There was no need to kill those children at Waco, I put the blame for OKC back onto the shoulders of Reno and Clinton, for the original indifference they expressed towards the children and Koresh whatever he might have believed, it simply was his right to think it, not there right to kill him for his opinions, nor children that had not even formed any opinions about anything. It disgusts me still to this day that the media plays up the McVeigh event and ignore the federal actions of Clinton and Reno as the worst federal diasaster wince Wounded Knee.

This goes back to the principle of self defense, either you support it and it works as a restraint on federal power or anyone attempting to coerce you or you think no one has a right to defend those children or themselves, it comes down to that irrespective of what McVeigh or Koresh might or might not have believed. Does anyone here still think if the government started going door to door rounding people up that those that resisted would not be labeled terrorists by the media?

At some point you are either for killing children and innocent people or you are against it and will defend those people from deranged out of control power tripping people hell bent on making points about "law enforcement" or "command and control" over mostly peaceful people that simply want to express themselves or protest the excessive attempts to control behavior and thinking. Either you live in a bubble or you support these people's rights to not be treated like Jews in a labor camp....also to turn everything around and make claims that these people are racist for not going along with this tyranical injustice , as has been the case with the tea parties, puts one in league with the brown shirts anti jewish crusades, next they will be required to identify themselves in some way....and who here would think if something were done like OKC that the first people to blame would be those most opposed to the government, not those that are trying to figure out a way to get rid of them, qui bono. But most importently why would anyone attack someone such as the federal government not in self defense? Why would anyone in a milita want to? They are very aware that to do so would be stupid, would trash their case agaisnt a tyrannical government and turn themselves into truly hated individuals by many people, McVeigh chose that date for a reason, as far as a real threat Islamic terrorists are far more dangerous, they have a history of bombings and killings and are expanding their cause and people all over the planet at an incredible rate, much faster than democracy, if anything we may become a footnote in history if they keep winning and populating themselves and taking over territories.

For some bizarre reason the Left almost applauds this movement away from democracy and towards religious tolerance, they might as well slit their own throats and get it over with. I must admit I have not generally subscribed to any political ideology, but I fear more an unstoppable Islamic threat than some ding dongs in some milita in MI or TX or anywhere else, 911 appears far more destructive, but far more capable in terms of agenda and method. Again the reason they attack because they are intolerant of American Forces occupying their lands, I don't blame them either, but they are aggressively pursuing their goals while militas are just building bunkers and stocking up, which cause seems more on the move? Which seems most likely to carry out an agenda and to exact some kind of revenge for muslims they say are being mudered in places like Iraq? If you take your eye off the ball you will drop it again, this time I fear they will use it to crack down on Americans and claim somebody here did it, that disturbs me, cause that means they are wreckless and dangerous to have people like that in control of our societies fate.