Voted for McCain? We would be at war with Iran by now

Mccain is a bush reincarnate and sarah palin is a COMPLETE utter idiot

You see how you can easily do math...Quite simple really

reply to post by intelinside451


Hate every breath you take? Someone's a bit over dramatic You apparently have never been to Iran, talked to people from Iran or even read basic scholarship on Iran. The overwhelming majority of Iran's population is quite young (70% are under the age of 30) and most of them don't hate you as you put it.
Most of the population in Iran, like many other in the Middle East, admire the West for the freedom of expression and information that we have access to, their chief disagreement with us as a region is our morality (a difference in culture primarily), as well as our invasive foreign policy.
Now some will point out that the thoughts of the majority of the population don't matter because of the decidedly undemocratic government. While there is merit to this argument it should be noted that despite the portrayal that we see here in the West, the entire Iranian government isn't run by a bunch of off the wall fanatics who are willing to sacrifice the safety of their people (from an external source anyways) and their country for religious ideals.
Ahmadinejad is a puppet and Khamenei is a shrewd politician, Iran's nuclear program is just so many smoke and mirrors, it's a game of brinkmanship that they're good at and ultimately there's little that can be done to stop them. If they do, on the off chance, acquire a nuclear weapon, they won't use it because they understand the nature of nuclear arms, they're not morons. Possession of a nuclear weapon or weapons simply provides leverage in international dealings and offers protection against any nuclear attacks that Israel could potentially mount. The Iranians won't use it because that's not how nuclear deterrence works and they know it.
As for those of you talking about the United States starting a war with Iran, it's unlikely in the near future and nigh impossible under the current circumstances. There are so many factors working against an American invasion of Iran it's not even funny. The international outcry would be catastrophic, selling the war to your own people would be a challenge in and of itself and supposing you actually MADE IT into the country it would be 10 times worse than either Afghanistan or Iraq. The Persians have a long and proud history, the young people may dislike their government but the population isn't going to roll over for American imperialism either, you'd unite those dissident forces and the insurgency you'd face would be impossible to defeat.
Between national unity and religious unity, there'd be no way to win said war and your government knows it. You won't go to war with Iran because you can't win and unlike Afghanistan or Iraq, this time you understand that from the very beginning.

I would like to confess that I voted for McCain in the last election and I am not proud of it. I am truly sorry. I just thought Ron Paul could not win against Obama... I repent for my sins and vow to vote for Ron Paul and no one else no matter what in 2012... Can you ever forgive me...

reply to post by Signals

Do you like the Puppet in my right hand or the one in my left hand?

says the puppeteers behind the dark curtain !

we had too many Pinocchio' with the strings still attached !
we just need to find that faerie that sprinkles that Magic Dust to make them real boys er men then again when the strings are off They need to find themselves like Pinocchio did

Originally posted by Allar
reply to post by intelinside451

 

Hate every breath you take? Someone's a bit over dramatic

You apparently have never been to Iran, talked to people from Iran or even read basic scholarship on Iran. The overwhelming majority of Iran's population is quite young (70% are under the age of 30) and most of them don't hate you as you put it.
Most of the population in Iran, like many other in the Middle East, admire the West for the freedom of expression and information that we have access to, their chief disagreement with us as a region is our morality (a difference in culture primarily), as well as our invasive foreign policy.
Now some will point out that the thoughts of the majority of the population don't matter because of the decidedly undemocratic government. While there is merit to this argument it should be noted that despite the portrayal that we see here in the West, the entire Iranian government isn't run by a bunch of off the wall fanatics who are willing to sacrifice the safety of their people (from an external source anyways) and their country for religious ideals.
Ahmadinejad is a puppet and Khamenei is a shrewd politician, Iran's nuclear program is just so many smoke and mirrors, it's a game of brinkmanship that they're good at and ultimately there's little that can be done to stop them. If they do, on the off chance, acquire a nuclear weapon, they won't use it because they understand the nature of nuclear arms, they're not morons. Possession of a nuclear weapon or weapons simply provides leverage in international dealings and offers protection against any nuclear attacks that Israel could potentially mount. The Iranians won't use it because that's not how nuclear deterrence works and they know it.
As for those of you talking about the United States starting a war with Iran, it's unlikely in the near future and nigh impossible under the current circumstances. There are so many factors working against an American invasion of Iran it's not even funny. The international outcry would be catastrophic, selling the war to your own people would be a challenge in and of itself and supposing you actually MADE IT into the country it would be 10 times worse than either Afghanistan or Iraq. The Persians have a long and proud history, the young people may dislike their government but the population isn't going to roll over for American imperialism either, you'd unite those dissident forces and the insurgency you'd face would be impossible to defeat.
Between national unity and religious unity, there'd be no way to win said war and your government knows it. You won't go to war with Iran because you can't win and unlike Afghanistan or Iraq, this time you understand that from the very beginning.

Oh man, where to begin, I know maybe you should read the Koran !!!
since you are so educated on the subject!! LMAO

[edit on 17-4-2010 by clownsroundhere]

mccains ego was destroyed when he was a POW. he wants it back by actually winning a war. he's not getting any younger so if he wait his chance may pass, time to pull the trigger.

[edit on 17-4-2010 by DOADOA]

reply to post by clownsroundhere


I am actually, I'm also apparently more educated on the current geopolitical realities of the international system in general and Iran in particular than you are. How about you make some kind of specific claim rather than just offhandedly mentioning the Qur'an and then providing no justification for your statement? I'm more than willing to have a discussion with you but then we need to discuss, not just throw around vaguely worded and ambiguous statements hoping that people won't call our bluffs

reply to post by SpectreDC


"And you completely ignore the fact that no nuclear weapons testing or research has been found to have taken place in Iran, and the only reason they're hiding their facilities is because Israel directly threatened to attack them? "

I would get into the REALLY thing, but its pretty childish.

No testing, but you talk about facilities.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is a 12 er. Do you understand what that means. Do you, Anarchist? When you can answer that, ask yourself these questions again, could Iran nuke someone. Have you studied any of this or are you a self proclaimed uneducated Anarchist because you heard it would be cool to label yourself as such.

Maybe we should get back on track. The world will forever be involved in religious battles. We always have and always will. Money and religion rule the world. The muslims are on a fast track to overpopulate the world in powers of numbers. If you do your research you will find that Mosques are popping up all over the world in extreme numbers and there are actually more mosques in South America than the middle east. Were you aware that 6 new mosques were built in South Dakota last year? In 15 years what does that mean to you. In fifteen years if Iran has nuclear weapons who do you think they will sell them too? They may not bomb anyone, how are we ever to know. But its the extremist cells that you should be worried about. Being a 12 er he is more apt to sell these weapons. Why do you think he is so secretive. Do you seriously believe Iran is interested in Space Programs like they claim.

?????????????Questions??????????

Originally posted by Allar
reply to post by clownsroundhere

 

I am actually, I'm also apparently more educated on the current geopolitical realities of the international system in general and Iran in particular than you are. How about you make some kind of specific claim rather than just offhandedly mentioning the Qur'an and then providing no justification for your statement? I'm more than willing to have a discussion with you but then we need to discuss, not just throw around vaguely worded and ambiguous statements hoping that people won't call our bluffs

Ok since your "apparently more educated on the current geopolitical realities of the international system in general and Iran in particular"-(whatever the hell that means) here for starters, 109 calls for violence against non believers , beheadings, etc

www.thereligionofpeace.com...

Are you really educated? Sounds more like your trying to sound that way versus really being edumacated....

PS, you should really like this part:

"This includes the brutal slaughter of tens of millions of Hindus for five centuries beginning around 1000 AD"

[edit on 17-4-2010 by clownsroundhere]

Originally posted by clownsroundhere

Ok since your "apparently more educated on the current geopolitical realities of the international system in general and Iran in particular"-(whatever the hell that means) here for starters, 109 calls for violence against non believers , beheadings, etc

www.thereligionofpeace.com...

Are you really educated? Sounds more like your trying to sound that way versus really being edumacated....

Ok well there are a few errors in your reasoning. The first is that its very easy to take verses from the Qur'an out of context to make a point, it's another thing entirely to put them IN context to understand their proper meaning.

As an example I offer the first passage on the page: "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah." Now let us look at the page THAT THEY CITE AS A SOURCE and view the FULL verse that they cite (gotta love those ellipses).

"And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers. But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors."

Clearly when viewed in full that passage takes on an entirely different meaning ja? No longer a call to slaughter non-believers but rather a call to defend oneself and it even says that if the attackers stop then the Muslims must also stop. I could continue to debunk the page but I feel I've made my point so I'll move on to the next issue.

Let us assume for a minute that Islam WERE a fundamentally violent religion (which it's not and you would know that if you had any kind of real contact with Muslims), that doesn't mean that the Iranian state is going to act totally in compliance with all of its tenets. True it's an Islamic Republic but despite the propaganda that the Western media has fed you (and surely you admit that they distort the truth) the fact is that the Iranian state has no desire to end its own existence or that of its people. It talks big but that's all it is, talk and posturing to make themselves seem big because taking a stand against the US earns them points in the region.

I should make clear that I don't support Iran having the bomb, but if they DO get it, I'm not super worried because the nature of nuclear weapons means that they'll never be used, even by a fringe state like Iran. It'll just strengthen their bargaining position, especially in the region

P.S. The sig refers to the inclusiveness of Hinduism and how in theory (though not necessarily in practice), pretty much anybody can believe anything and be a Hindu due to the Hindu belief that the divine appears to different people in different ways. I'm aware of the strife between Muslims and Hindus which is, by the way, both religious AND political

EDIT: Screwed up the quote box

EDIT: To respond to clownsroundhere's Hindu comment
[edit on 18-4-2010 by Allar]

[edit on 18-4-2010 by Allar]

[edit on 18-4-2010 by Allar]

Originally posted by Teabags
What a crappy thread.

[edit on 17-4-2010 by Teabags]

Thanks for bumping

Originally posted by clownsroundhere

Just wish all the communists, liberals, etc. would just all die or move somewhere they would be happy, perhaps Venezuela, yea that's it, all you pussy liberals should move to Venezuela with your hero Sean Penn, etc..

I dont see you being on ATS very long, so wont put much thought into a response

Of course McCain is pushing more Iran war rhetoric because as a Zionist Israeli diplomacy pundit he is obligated to.

Who was McCain's recent partner in his recent bill denying Miranda rights to "Enemy Combatants"....or as I like to call it, Patriot Act II ?

None other than our US Senator with dual US/Israeli citizenship, Joseph Lieberman.

Anyone here hear Sarah Palin's recent Tea Party Convention speech and how we have a need to support Israel ?
How about focusing upon Domestic issues like smaller govt. vs Israel's Sarah ???
Who's paying you now anyway, Rupert Murdoch ??




Iran is not as big a threat to Israel as they are making it appear to be.

Remember that Iran is one of 5 Central Banks that are NOT Rothschild Controlled and THAT is the Zionist's actual problem with Iran and not necessarily this contrived for mass media story pertaining to potential Nuclear weapons.

Remember that Saddam Hussein was paid to win the war against Iran and failed.

Remember that the original warmonger for profits, Dick Cheney, wanted to stage a false flag attack on a US Naval Vessel in the Persian Gulf and blame it on Iran.

Looking at McCain's overt support for Israel and it's Prime Minister, the warmonger Netanyahu I DO feel he would have had a higher probability of stirring up a cause for going to war with Iran than with Obama who is using a diplomatic approach to the (supposed) issue instead.

Why do we need another war to only further enrichen the Rothschilds anyway ?



[edit on 18-4-2010 by nh_ee]

I disagree that we'd be at war with Iran thanks to a little thing known as checks and balances,
... something that is now like the equivalent to an endangered species.

Originally posted by clownsroundhere


Just wish all the communists, liberals, etc. would just all die or move somewhere they would be happy, perhaps Venezuela, yea that's it, all you pussy liberals should move to Venezuela with your hero Sean Penn, etc..

No

You forgot, as communists we need a lot of space to be communal

Why don't you guys shove off find an island and play last man standing?
You don't need a big ass piece of land to do that...

But first you should build a HUGE inferno in you backyard and run thru it just to make sure your cloths are not fire proof.

Get back to us on that and say hi to your SisMa!

reply to post by SaturnFX


Hey what's this?

...Oh it's just another thread based solely on speculation.

reply to post by Allar


Defend it all you want, Actions speak louder, so why are the Islamic fundamentalist terrorists trying to kill us? you also don't seem to realize the millions killed by them.

Hence my quote:

"This includes the brutal slaughter of tens of millions of Hindus for five centuries beginning around 1000 AD"

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by clownsroundhere

Just wish all the communists, liberals, etc. would just all die or move somewhere they would be happy, perhaps Venezuela, yea that's it, all you pussy liberals should move to Venezuela with your hero Sean Penn, etc..

I dont see you being on ATS very long, so wont put much thought into a response

Oh, I get it , the typical elitist liberal attitude. What does my time here have to do with anything regarding my opinion? Had I been a member for 5 yrs then I would be worthy of a response?

I have to agree with others, this thread is USELESS, all speculation and defenders of Islam...NICE!!!!

Actually, your thread is not "worthy" of any more responses from me.

It's funny, you the OP start this lame ass thread , then say something like that. What are you like 14 years old?

Originally posted by clownsroundhere

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by clownsroundhere

Just wish all the communists, liberals, etc. would just all die or move somewhere they would be happy, perhaps Venezuela, yea that's it, all you pussy liberals should move to Venezuela with your hero Sean Penn, etc..

I dont see you being on ATS very long, so wont put much thought into a response

Oh, I get it , the typical elitist liberal attitude. What does my time here have to do with anything regarding my opinion? Had I been a member for 5 yrs then I would be worthy of a response?

I have to agree with others, this thread is USELESS, all speculation and defenders of Islam...NICE!!!!

Actually, your thread is not "worthy" of any more responses from me.

It's funny, you the OP start this lame ass thread , then say something like that. What are you like 14 years old?

just someone whom has read the terms and conditions...the ops are currently sleeping, but no doubt with your trolling, you will meet ban criteria in short order.

you really should read the terms of service of ATS...maybe this type of forum is not for you, some people cannot get past personal insults and trolling and need to go back to one of those flame boards.

thanks for the bump.