Plane carrying Polish president Lech Kaczynski crashes near Russian airport, CONFIRMED DEAD

RT news updated report:

The decoding of the black boxes seem to confirm the initial reports of pilot error. They were order to divert by the tower, but the pilot made the final decision to attempt an approach. This is not a violation of international rules however, as the pilot has the final say.

Also nothing said about lost communications. The report states that they were told to divert multiple times just before the crash, so I do not see how the "16 minutes" communication bit holds up.

Interesting. That's two governments ousted in a week. Kyrgystan's president gets tossed out and now Polish entire gov't gets taken out.

Originally posted by pause4thought
On the other hand there could be no clearer way of sending a message to other leaders who are openly critical of Russian history and policy, such as the leaders of other ex-Warsaw pact nations.

Those who thrive on intimidation don't necessarily fear the truth coming out.

Sending a message? This isn't The Godfather. A political and economic fallout from something like this could be catastrophic. I know people outside Russia have a skewed opinion of Putin as a total bad*** who is ruthless to opponents, kicks puppies, and hates ice cream and flowers. But come on - killing foreign leaders to send a message? What message would that be - that Russia should be ignored on the political arena and that no one should visit Russia or have diplomatic relations with it?

Sorry, but it is absurd.

Originally posted by maloy

Originally posted by pause4thought
On the other hand there could be no clearer way of sending a message to other leaders who are openly critical of Russian history and policy, such as the leaders of other ex-Warsaw pact nations.

Those who thrive on intimidation don't necessarily fear the truth coming out.

Sending a message? This isn't The Godfather. A political and economic fallout from something like this could be catastrophic. I know people outside Russia have a skewed opinion of Putin as a total bad*** who is ruthless to opponents, kicks puppies, and hates ice cream and flowers. But come on - killing foreign leaders to send a message? What message would that be - that Russia should be ignored on the political arena and that no one should visit Russia or have diplomatic relations with it?

Sorry, but it is absurd.

Like I said, most like a zionist/israeli plot to make Russia look bad. Wouldn't be surprised if there happened to be Israeli "art students" at the airport right before the crash.

Polish President is a confirmed enemy of Putin, even back in Putin's days in the KGB.

Secret KGB pilots flying Eastern European diplomats around...

This is real conspiracy.

Well, to be expected people have already jumped to some crazy conclusions about this being an assassination or what have you.... and by how? Did the Russians shoot the plane down? Come on...

Looking at the video of the crash site it definitely appears to have been very foggy at the time, with the tree tops barely even showing.... Visibility would have been severely limited, and if the pilots were not familiar with the area then I'm sure this played a role in the crash... Reports say that the plane was off course by some 150 meters in its approach

They went around 4 times from what the media is reporting before finally being waved in... clearly there seems to have been human error involved here... Mix that with some dense ass fog and you have a plane crash...

Why is that so hard to buy as the story here?

Originally posted by harrytuttle

Originally posted by maestro46
Please don't use movies to back up your beliefs.

Please don't create straw men you can easily cut down. It's completely unnecessary for you to insult me like that.

That's not what I was doing. Don't get me wrong, its just the way "We all saw in Die Hard 2" (or something similar) sounded. A request at most. Not an insult.

Regards,
Maestro



[edit on 10-4-2010 by maestro46]

Originally posted by TheOneElectric
Polish President is a confirmed enemy of Putin, even back in Putin's days in the KGB.

Secret KGB pilots flying Eastern European diplomats around...

This is real conspiracy.

lol so the KGB pilot committed suicide with the plane as well? This isn't Iraq, Russia is a civilized country I don't think any amount of pay would provoke a "kgb pilot" to kill himself just to take out some diplomats.

He said the plane has a great mechanical record

There was an interview on polish tv with president’s ex-pilot, who two years ago resigned from his function due to his worries about his own safety. The aircraft had a major technical problem every year lately. Together 6 times a major problem.

reply to post by PhotonEffect


If you don't want to hear a conspiracy spin on the story then don't come to ATS which is a conspiracy site. Go read the story on CNN.

It's tragic, but I don't see any reason to think that this was a conspiracy. Accidents happen, even for heads of state.

I saw that several countries have sent formal condolence messages to Poland already. Has anyone heard if the Obama administration has done so yet?

What was with the one witness that stated he saw the plane with it's wing pointed to the ground during approach, i.e. nearly upside-down?

That's very odd. That indicates more than just low visibility. If it was in fact due to the fog and pilot error, then the pilot would have had to misread is altimeter or it malfunctioned and he cut too much engine power on approach, as well as operated flaps, way above the ground. Basically because he couldn't see the ground through the fog (assuming) and thus the plane, in it's moments of virtual suspended animation mid-air with no engine power, turned sideways and struck the ground.

Very strange, if that person did indeed see the plane sideways, above the trees.

[edit on 10-4-2010 by SyphonX]

Originally posted by maloy
RT news updated report:

The decoding of the black boxes seem to confirm the initial reports of pilot error. They were order to divert by the tower, but the pilot made the final decision to attempt an approach. This is not a violation of international rules however, as the pilot has the final say.

Also nothing said about lost communications. The report states that they were told to divert multiple times just before the crash, so I do not see how the "16 minutes" communication bit holds up.

Well, I guess if the Russian "investigators" say it is so, it must be so.

I'm sure The Warren Commission, The 9/11 Commission, and NIST would be glad to support those conclusions.

I guess we can just close down ATS now, as what's the point of discussing world events if we can just believe everything our "officials" and media tell us.

You can believe what ever you want, but I don't buy it for one second.

Originally posted by maloy
RT news updated report:

The decoding of the black boxes seem to confirm the initial reports of pilot error. They were order to divert by the tower, but the pilot made the final decision to attempt an approach. This is not a violation of international rules however, as the pilot has the final say.

Also nothing said about lost communications. The report states that they were told to divert multiple times just before the crash, so I do not see how the "16 minutes" communication bit holds up.

If you post a link to that then we can pretty much put an end to the speculation of communication blackout, cause that is unlikely.

I'm still interested to hear what the pilot's reason was behind ignoring the warnings, and the repeated attempts to land. Also weather he was in fact dumping fuel or leaking fuel. What I can't understand is why RT reports about witnesses seeing the plane "leaking fuel", but still hasn't gotten any professional opinion/comment on the matter. I'd like some clarification.

Regards,
Maestro

Today the whole world will know the significance of Katyn.

reply to post by MotherofBlessings


Yes. I believe you can read it here

[edit on 10-4-2010 by Fatality]

You're all wrong. It was a Zulu attack. Spears have come a long way...

reply to post by maestro46


The source is the live RT news streaming. They have full time coverage of the event.

rt.com...


Other than the chart on BBC, I have seen nothing about the lost communication. Even the BBC article itself didn't have any mention of this. Also it looks like BBC is not the primary source for any news on the event, since they had no journalists in Smolensk.

And yes the RT report did mention the fuel leak/dump - and the witness was the Polish journalist. It is not clear if he was in the airport or elsewhere when he saw that.

Mr Kaczynski was due to visit Smolensk to mark the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre, when Soviet troops killed thousands of Poles.

I know this will sound bad but when I read this it made me unfortunately chuckle... Not about human deaths, but more to the poles I envisioned being destroyed... As in the tall long, and usually metallic type of poles.

However that aside, I wonder what happened? Presidential jets and actually almost all jets are very safe.

I also read near the start of the posts that they actually crashed AT THE AIRPORT.

Reports say a plane carrying Polish President Lech Kaczynski has crashed at Smolensk Airport in Russia's Smolensk Oblast.

And then now its "NEAR" it.

A plane carrying Polish President Lech Kaczynski has crashed near a Russian airport, officials say.

How can you get something like those wrong? If a car crashes into my house... It later cannot be 'near it'. Since its gone inside it and probably destroyed some walls or at least some garden gnomes on the way...

1. someone mentioned some people heard explosions
2. some saw fuel leaking out of the plane
3. some saw the plane turned perilously sideways with its wingtip pointing towards the ground
4. some said there was a 16 minute communications blackout.

where did people get all this stuff from? This sounds like 911 and all those testimonies that were quickly covered up afterwards.